| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 08 Aug 2010 : 21:06:22
Ok...
Lets say that Larloch found out about the assasination of Mystra and went to stop it, and he called the Srinshee for help, what spells would he and/or Srinshee use to take down Cyric or Shar?
This is not weather they would win or not, im just interested in the spells they would use. It is often stated that if two powers like Larloch and Srinshee were to fight, it would result en cataclysmic destruction, just like in Dragonball Z, but I have yet to find these SO destructive spells.
So if anyone can tell me what spell they would use that would make it look like a nuka had been dropped, I would much apresiate it!
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 01:15:27
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I ofc thought that Midnight was he 3ed version of goddess of magic, and that Mystryl was Mystra 1.0... So what I meant was that I dont believe Midnight has left anything, but that Mystra the first might have!
Am I making any sence!
It goes Mystryl, Mystra 1.0, Mystra 2.0/Midnight, no one.
Or, rather, Mystryl, Mystra 1.0, Mystra 2.0/Midnight, reconstituted Mystra 2.0 {or, perhaps, 2.5} as per "The Sage of Shadowdale" series.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 23:59:36
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I ofc thought that Midnight was he 3ed version of goddess of magic, and that Mystryl was Mystra 1.0... So what I meant was that I dont believe Midnight has left anything, but that Mystra the first might have!
Am I making any sence!
It goes Mystryl, Mystra 1.0, Mystra 2.0/Midnight, no one. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 14:33:05
I ofc thought that Midnight was he 3ed version of goddess of magic, and that Mystryl was Mystra 1.0... So what I meant was that I dont believe Midnight has left anything, but that Mystra the first might have!
Am I making any sence! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 10:58:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I dont believe that Midnight has left anything in the hands of Larloch. If anything it was Mystra 2.0.
Uh... Midnight is Mystra 2.0.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 02:27:15
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I dont believe that Midnight has left anything in the hands of Larloch. If anything it was Mystra 2.0.
Uh... Midnight is Mystra 2.0. |
| Brace Cormaeril |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 20:30:35
Oh, well then I would go for 'untyped' destructive force. Gravity-bombs work well.
I *really* think you should take a second look at True Dweomers, Epic Spells, etc. The developement system is really nice. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 18:59:57
But what... energy should it be then...
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| Brace Cormaeril |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 17:46:32
Spells like the ones you describe are "fully Legend Lore-able". Being immune to (Fire) effects is easily achieved at early levels. Hence, blasting someone with a (Fire) effect at that level is folly. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 17:24:41
I dont believe that Midnight has left anything in the hands of Larloch. If anything it was Mystra 2.0. For that reason I believe that when the time comes, and it will, that what ever he has deep in his wault, will be unleashed. And that might be the last essence of Mystra 2.0
Just a thought!
With regards to the spells, why would nobody die of fire if you are a lvl 25+ spell caster? And what kind of energy should be used to increase power`??? |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 14:00:53
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Kilvan,
Scroll up. Nicaolai mentioned that Larloch (who is a LE) could be Mystra's avatar. Which I deem unlikely, as I follow the notion that should that be case, then she WOULD become LE as well should her true form is destroyed (obviously, it already was in the SP) and only that tiny bit or considerable amount of her essence she left in Larloch remains... But if her essence/sentience would supersede Larloch when they become one (like Mystra and Midnight), then that's another story to consider. So to put it plainly, I don't think it likely that she'll resurrect as a LE deity in the form of Larloch.
Indeed, then we agree, Mystra will probably not come back as a LE deity. BUT if she did chose Larloch as her avatar, I think we would probably have another Mystra/Midnight scenario, like you said. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 04:01:47
Kilvan,
Scroll up. Nicaolai mentioned that Larloch (who is a LE) could be Mystra's avatar. Which I deem unlikely, as I follow the notion that should that be case, then she WOULD become LE as well should her true form is destroyed (obviously, it already was in the SP) and only that tiny bit or considerable amount of her essence she left in Larloch remains... But if her essence/sentience would supersede Larloch when they become one (like Mystra and Midnight), then that's another story to consider. So to put it plainly, I don't think it likely that she'll resurrect as a LE deity in the form of Larloch.
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| Kilvan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 03:47:19
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As Ao's dictation, and the other deities' of course, she HAS to be neutral in treatment with magic-users. But remember what happened in Crucible, she favored the "good" magic-users and was therefore put to trial because of it. So while her duties require her to be neutral, her essence, of perhaps that which remains of the mortal Midnight, veers more towards "good."
But really, it is not my main concern. I just think that making the guardian of a neutral source of magic LE is strange. And in light of the presence of Shar being NE and the SW, which may not be really evil but is still the power source of not a few wicked spellcasters, making Mystra LE is redundant.
I have trouble following you. Mystra would not be made LE just for having a LE Chosen, and Chosens are not necessarily Guardians, they can be promoters, something that evil people do as much (if not more) as good people.
Would it be redundant if Mystra was made LE? Yes, but she is not, and she won't be (of course). I'm not only saying that Mystra COULD have evil chosens while preserving her balance, I'm saying she probably DOES have evil chosens (pre-spellplague at least) to preserve said-balance. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 03:36:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
The fact that they might (probably will) use these powers for destruction and conquest* is not important for Mystra, IMHO.
Indeed. This is a crucial point when it comes to discussing Mystra and her perspectives on the use of magic and the Weave. The Lady of Mysteries is concerned with magic, and what people do with magic, not why.
As Ao's dictation, and the other deities' of course, she HAS to be neutral in treatment with magic-users. But remember what happened in Crucible, she favored the "good" magic-users and was therefore put to trial because of it. So while her duties require her to be neutral, her essence, of perhaps that which remains of the mortal Midnight, veers more towards "good."
But really, it is not my main concern. I just think that making the guardian of a neutral source of magic LE is strange. And in light of the presence of Shar being NE and the SW, which may not be really evil but is still the power source of not a few wicked spellcasters, making Mystra LE is redundant.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 03:07:44
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
The fact that they might (probably will) use these powers for destruction and conquest* is not important for Mystra, IMHO.
Indeed. This is a crucial point when it comes to discussing Mystra and her perspectives on the use of magic and the Weave. The Lady of Mysteries is concerned with magic, and what people do with magic, not why. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 02:42:51
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I said Ao will not allow it because it will tip the balance. Remember there's already Shar, a NE, who is in charge of the SW, one of Toril's sources of magic. It will appear strange if the task of guarding the Weave, which is a "neutral" source of magic, will be given to a lawful evil goddess.
I understand what you mean, but I think that beyond alignment, what matters most to Mystra (any 'version' of Mystra) is the propagation of the Art, and I think that can be done by an evil person. Look at the Red Wizards, incredible source of magic in the Realms (in other words, great for Mystra's cause) AND they teach their art to other Thayvians in universities, unlike the Zhentarims who keep it to themselves. The fact that they might (probably will) use these powers for destruction and conquest* is not important for Mystra, IMHO.
As for it being weird to have an evil godess of magic beside Shar, I'd say that it was weirder to have a non-evil god of the deads (after 3 uber-evil), and it worked fine. In many cases I don't really care for the god's alignment and I focus on the portfolio, i.e. most good rogues will worship Mask, a CE god. Mystra (along with Oghma) can easily be worshipped by anyone, or become Chosens (again, Mask is a good example).
* I might add that not all Red Wizards are conquerers or/and backstabbers. Heck, not all of them are evil (though probably not many are actually good) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 02:20:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A Chosen of lawful evil alignment? Possibly, just to balance out the Chosen of lawful good---she's neutral, in the first place. But an evil avatar? I doubt. Unless she'll change alignment, which I don't think Ao will ever allow.
Mystra 2.0 is neutral good, so Ao DID allow an alignment change. Considering that most of her chosens are good (and most are chaotic), it is not exagerated to believe that she has evil champions/chosens. In fact, only Khelben ever matched Mystra alignment (both LN at the time of Khelben 'ascension'), so I don't think that it is such a big deal for her, even now that she is NG.
Both 2e and 3e sources feature an NPC known as Meleghost Starseer. He's the LE head of Mystra's temple in Waterdeep. So Mystra does indeed have both powerful and evil individuals serving her faith.
I have no problem with powerful evil servants or Chosen. But a lawful evil avatar of herself? That's another story. Besides, is Shar (and her SW) not MORE THAN ENOUGH to plague the Realms with evil? Making Mystra a LE will just be a redundancy.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 02:09:44
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A Chosen of lawful evil alignment? Possibly, just to balance out the Chosen of lawful good---she's neutral, in the first place. But an evil avatar? I doubt. Unless she'll change alignment, which I don't think Ao will ever allow.
Mystra 2.0 is neutral good, so Ao DID allow an alignment change. Considering that most of her chosens are good (and most are chaotic), it is not exagerated to believe that she has evil champions/chosens. In fact, only Khelben ever matched Mystra alignment (both LN at the time of Khelben 'ascension'), so I don't think that it is such a big deal for her, even now that she is NG.
Both 2e and 3e sources feature an NPC known as Meleghost Starseer. He's the LE head of Mystra's temple in Waterdeep. So Mystra does indeed have both powerful and evil individuals serving her faith. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 02:06:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A Chosen of lawful evil alignment? Possibly, just to balance out the Chosen of lawful good---she's neutral, in the first place. But an evil avatar? I doubt. Unless she'll change alignment, which I don't think Ao will ever allow.
Mystra 2.0 is neutral good, so Ao DID allow an alignment change. Considering that most of her chosens are good (and most are chaotic), it is not exagerated to believe that she has evil champions/chosens. In fact, only Khelben ever matched Mystra alignment (both LN at the time of Khelben 'ascension'), so I don't think that it is such a big deal for her, even now that she is NG.
I said Ao will not allow it because it will tip the balance. Remember there's already Shar, a NE, who is in charge of the SW, one of Toril's sources of magic. It will appear strange if the task of guarding the Weave, which is a "neutral" source of magic, will be given to a lawful evil goddess.
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| Kilvan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 01:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A Chosen of lawful evil alignment? Possibly, just to balance out the Chosen of lawful good---she's neutral, in the first place. But an evil avatar? I doubt. Unless she'll change alignment, which I don't think Ao will ever allow.
Mystra 2.0 is neutral good, so Ao DID allow an alignment change. Considering that most of her chosens are good (and most are chaotic), it is not exagerated to believe that she has evil champions/chosens. In fact, only Khelben ever matched Mystra alignment (both LN at the time of Khelben 'ascension'), so I don't think that it is such a big deal for her, even now that she is NG. |
| Brace Cormaeril |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:59:05
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Indeed they are so for the firestorm spell is 1d6 per lvl of the caster, per round, per square, so with the amount of squares it might be the number you wrote! I have not calculated that my self. But when you calculate the damage that way even a fireball does a whole lot of damage.
Ill get back to you when I have slept!
Right, factors like the area of effect play a significant role in the development of spells and their over-all game balance.
So: in raw, mystic might, these spells are generating "off-the-chart" energies capable of ripping Dragonballz all over the place. However, they are both [Fire] effects, so in fact quite weak considering the level of play we are talking about.
No 25th+ level magic-user is going to get killed by a [Fire] effect.
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| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:35:21
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps he is not a chosen, but more an avatar of Mystra! He might be harboring some divine essence of her's, something he could use against a possible tread.
A lawful neutral goddess choosing a lawful evil sorcerer to be her avatar? It's unlikely.
I think Mystra had Chosens from every alignment over the centuries. As long as it helps the cause of Magic, you are serving Mystra (like the Red Wizards, and Larloch).
A Chosen of lawful evil alignment? Possibly, just to balance out the Chosen of lawful good---she's neutral, in the first place. But an evil avatar? I doubt. Unless she'll change alignment, which I don't think Ao will ever allow.
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| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:25:16
Indeed they are so for the firestorm spell is 1d6 per lvl of the caster, per round, per square, so with the amount of squares it might be the number you wrote! I have not calculated that my self. But when you calculate the damage that way even a fireball does a whole lot of damage.
Ill get back to you when I have slept! |
| Brace Cormaeril |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:14:07
Remember, these spells are effecting every square in their radius... |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:12:32
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps he is not a chosen, but more an avatar of Mystra! He might be harboring some divine essence of her's, something he could use against a possible tread.
A lawful neutral goddess choosing a lawful evil sorcerer to be her avatar? It's unlikely.
I think Mystra had Chosens from every alignment over the centuries. As long as it helps the cause of Magic, you are serving Mystra (like the Red Wizards, and Larloch). |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 23:10:35
Im no quite sure how you get the numbers you do... either my math is terrible or something is off... The Firestorm spell does indeed use fire, has a two mile radius area of effect, The spell expands in which the flames reach in 5 rounds. every round anyone stands inside the radius they are dealt 1d6 points of damage per caster lvl, each round. so standing inside the radius of the storm for two rounds (by a lvl 25 caster) would deal 50d6 points of fire damage! So forth and so on.
The end of time has, if cast by a 25th lvl casster, a radius spherical blast of 2500ft. and since it is an instantaneous explosion it deals 25d10 for every lvl of the caster. being lvl 25 would deal: 25d10x25. It uses raw magical energy.
After looking at it again Ill have to get back to you... its way too late!
Unless there is some calculation if damage I donk know of, or I deskribed the spell poorly... this it what they damage! And not over a milion! |
| Brace Cormaeril |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 22:20:55
When Melcars Firestorm is cast, I believe it will issue forth from the caster 1/5th of the overall radius of the spell, or 2112 ft (644 meters.), or 422 squares away from the caster. For each square away from the caster, 8 squares area effected (5ft away), then 16 squares(10ft away), then 24 squares(15ft), 32 squares(20ft), 40(25ft away)... eventually reaching 714024 (minus 4 for the corners you don't get in DnD)... 714020 squares squares at the end of casting.
For a 25th level caster, 25d6, maximized is 150, effecting 714020 squares is 107,103,000 points of damage. The next round it expands, dealing 214,206,000 points of damage. Again expanding on the third, dealing 321,309,000. The fourth, 428,412,000. And by the fifth and final round 535,515,000 points of damage. Across all 5 rounds, in the area, Melcars Firestorm will deal 1.6x10^9 points of damage.
End of Time, (and reading the spell description more closely , I see that the damage is 25d10 per caster level. With a sphere whose instantaneous duration is 100ft/caster level. So for our hypothetical 25th level caster, we have a 2,500radius sphere (500 squares) instantaneously dealing 1,002,000 damage.
It's obvious with both these spells you mean business, but the Firestorm does much more damage.
Also, are both of these [Fire] effects? They both use flame in their descriptions.
Oh, and these would totally leave some massive Dragonballz all over your campaign.
Edit: Crumbs, I fail at math! I only calculated the damage for the above spells as areas, as opposed to spheres. So I guess you'd have to add in a 4/3pieradiuscubed term somewhere in there, convert to dnd squares, blah blah. But both spells would be raised by that factor, so I still think Firestorm wins |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 20:58:04
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps he is not a chosen, but more an avatar of Mystra! He might be harboring some divine essence of her's, something he could use against a possible tread.
A lawful neutral goddess choosing a lawful evil sorcerer to be her avatar? It's unlikely.
Indeed, but thats why it is so plausible. Noone would expect it, and as we allready know, they have some sort of relationship, which in the first place is kind of "unlikely" to begin with. So She might be feedinghim knowledge or adleast letting him discover deep knowledge of the art, for the sake of him stepping in at the right moment! He might even be holding a phylactory of mystra!
We will never find out what he is doing... Or why, but he is doing something... And Mystra is in on it!
Could Larloch realy just be another netherise arcanist, or is he something more? To me he is more than that. To me he might even "be" Mystra's dark side! Or a vessel for her to take when the times comes.
Actually what I find most interesting is the fack that a Chaotic later Neutral good diety would choose an evil, for such power. Why not Elminster or Srinshee... What precisly is so special about Larloch!
Before the end we will find out what or who he realy is, and we
will all go: "WHAT THE !"#¤%&/()... I did not see that comming!!!! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 20:05:48
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Perhaps he is not a chosen, but more an avatar of Mystra! He might be harboring some divine essence of her's, something he could use against a possible tread.
A lawful neutral goddess choosing a lawful evil sorcerer to be her avatar? It's unlikely.
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| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 18:44:25
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
The "Firestorm" spell, with it's 2 mile radius and dice/lvl damage, is far more powerful than the "End of Time" spell. I don't know if meta-magic feats are used in your game, but meta-magic would make "Firestorm" even *more* powerful...
You du rialize that for a lvl 25 mage the max damage for the firestorm spell is : 3750, where as the maximun damage for the end of time spell is: 6250
But that spell have a much smaller area... |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 18:29:18
Yes why would Larloch choose to take up a fight he would loose? Maybe thats excactly what he was mean to do. He might be given all this power, because he is entrusted with the defence of Mystra and/or the Weave. There is a reasson for picking "chosen"... and if Larloch is keeping something, it simply might just be himself... Perhaps he is not a chosen, but more an avatar of Mystra! He might be harboring some divine essence of her's, something he could use against a possible tread.
But why he would fight instead of Warn? No clue... but then again...
Never compromize, not even in the face of armageddon
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