| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mouse |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 00:46:26
So, we all know the Bard Class sucks right?
That's the stereotype.
Maybe now they're better or worse or however in 4th Ed, but when it comes right down to it, the Bard Class has always been kind of weird.
Now, this is NOT a threat about improving the Bard or how it's better or worse then it has been now.
This is a thread about how when Bards sucked, Bard fans played them ANYWAY.
Bard is, and always will be my favorite class, god only knows why.
Who else here loves Bard, rain or shine, suck on non-suck? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 00:56:19
Certainly, Sage. It's one of the better sources on drow, IMHO, FR canon or not. Here's some juicy bits. (Hope it doesn't violate any rules.)
"The earth has a music all its own, and the Underdark is its concert hall. Deepsingers hear the natural sounds of the dark caves and black pools of the Underdark as one unending grand symphony to which they can add their own harmonics, and by doing so, sing the dirges of their enemies' deaths.
Deepsingers wander the Underdark tunnels in search of perfect sounds and astounding harmonics. Not content to use music merely to support or enthrall, they weild sound as a weapon to destroy and deafen."
Some of their abilities include things like blinding song, keen hearing, deafening note, destructive harmonics, blindsight, echo- which allows his song to continue, sonic resistance, and soul song- which allows them to use bardic music to grant another roll on a sailed saving throw. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 09:33:30
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
... Plot and Poison had a Deepsinger, ...
I never purchased a copy of that tome [I think]. Can you provide some details about this class?
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| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 07:05:14
I'm partial to the Prestige variant of the Bard Class presented in the Unearthed Arcana, but mainly because of the ideas behind the class being able to cast different types of Magic through Music, and needing much more training than preliminaries. can't just be a Bard at 1st level, aye! XD |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 06:59:13
Ah-HA!! That's the one! Hmm, I might have gotten the name mixed up with something else, (Plot and Poison had a Deepsinger, so I might have had a weird brain-cross-over there) but yes, that was the one. Of the bunch, the Green Whisperer was my favorite. There are some other cool PrC's in other issues- the Windsinger (a seafaring bard), the Heartfire Fanner (a fire-based one), and a couple of others I can't recall off-hand. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 06:44:29
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Could be the same one? Dunno, Sage, I've not looked through my pdf of that book. The one I saw was in with a "Green Ear" nature type bard (think Orpheus), a wordsmith-type, a stone-speaker or some-such, and a winter-wind sort of bard- all as PrC's. All of them were interesting, and the death-focused one had some cool turn-undead type abilities, as I recall.
-Issue 311: Battle Howler of Gruumsh / Green Whisperer / Memory Smith / The Mourner / Worldspeaker |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 06:39:58
Could be the same one? Dunno, Sage, I've not looked through my pdf of that book. The one I saw was in with a "Green Ear" nature type bard (think Orpheus), a wordsmith-type, a stone-speaker or some-such, and a winter-wind sort of bard- all as PrC's. All of them were interesting, and the death-focused one had some cool turn-undead type abilities, as I recall. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 06:29:44
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Was that one of the ones based on monster species? There was an article that had PrC's based on illithids, beholders, and even the taarrasque.
-I remember those. They were pretty cool. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 05:55:05
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I like the Dirgesingers from Dragon Magazine.
You mean the Dirgist character kit from DRAGON #252?
No, this was from issue #309 or #311, I think. (I've got #310 at hand, and it had all the warrior-type classes, the one I'm thinking of had all the spellcasting classes in it- both issues had various new rules and PrC's for their respective class-types for 3.5 rules.) IIRCit was called Dirgesinger, although it might be an updated version of the one you mentioned.
Hmmm. The only 3e Dirgesinger class I can recall, is from Libris Mortis: The Book of Undead.
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| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:50:00
Ah. I'd have to dig through mine again, but I thought they weer both in the same issue. I do recall the WotSQ NPC stats, though. On second thought though, it might have been the issue focusing on gods and divine powers. |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:38:38
not in the same issue... that issue had a focus on Magic, and included a list of various new Cantrips, alternative Summoning rules/lists, infomation on the High Flagon in Waterdeep (complete with Card Games, food & bevereges, and vacancy), and an article on running large encounters. it also had stats for some of the characters in the WotSQ series (Gromph, Quenthal, Pharaun, and Jegred) including their unique equipment, a Prestige Class for an orginzation in Greyhawk campaign setting, and a list of "Armour" for Spellcasters.
I seem to have misplaced both my issues of Dragon and my issue of Dungeon, and I'm hoping I didn't leave them in ohio last year.... I'm pretty sure I saw them when I got home, but I havn't seen them in months... |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:24:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I like the Dirgesingers from Dragon Magazine.
You mean the Dirgist character kit from DRAGON #252?
No, this was from issue #309 or #311, I think. (I've got #310 at hand, and it had all the warrior-type classes, the one I'm thinking of had all the spellcasting classes in it- both issues had various new rules and PrC's for their respective class-types for 3.5 rules.) IIRCit was called Dirgesinger, although it might be an updated version of the one you mentioned.
CT- I remember that one now- I think there was an opposite class in the same issue for celestial-type soul-share. |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:18:17
nope. it was a Roleplaying-based Class that could be picked up by 3rd or 4th level by just about anyone (the only prerequisites were Alignment any non-Evil, Base Will +1 and Base Attack +2), wherein you share your Soul with a Fiend of some kind (they have stats for Demons, Devils, and Yugoloth from the Monster Manual and Manual of the Planes, but mention that ones for other Fiends, and for Oni are possible).
the Class comes in two forms, the Warrior (with full Base Attack and good Fortitude) and the Spellcaster (with medium Base Attack, good Willpower and +1 Spellcasting at every odd-numbered level).
here, I've got the pages scanned.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage1.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage2.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage3.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage4.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage5.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage6.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage7.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/aintedpage8.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/guardiandream/Taintedpage9.jpg
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| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:11:49
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I like the Dirgesingers from Dragon Magazine.
You mean the Dirgist character kit from DRAGON #252?
|
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:07:59
Was that one of the ones based on monster species? There was an article that had PrC's based on illithids, beholders, and even the taarrasque. |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:44:31
a little off-topic, but my Favourite Class of all time was found in an issue of Dragon... it's the Tainted, a Prestige Class. >w< |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:21:39
I like the Dirgesingers from Dragon Magazine. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:11:43
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, those were the very mummers I was thinking of! Trust Sage to read my mind..... (I think I must have some Sage Time stuck to the bottom of my shoes....)
That's alright. I've a SageSpatula here to help clean it off.  |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:00:30
I still say Bards are better. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 02:27:33
Actually, those were the very mummers I was thinking of! Trust Sage to read my mind..... (I think I must have some Sage Time stuck to the bottom of my shoes....) |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 09:15:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
mummers aren't as fun or great as a Bard, especially one wo was there to know all the details firsthand, and lie about them to make them more exciting. XD
Unless they're the "Scarlet Mummers", a particular and personal favourite of mine.
>.> ... hush, you. they don't exist, just a faerie-tale to scare the kids. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 08:35:42
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
mummers aren't as fun or great as a Bard, especially one wo was there to know all the details firsthand, and lie about them to make them more exciting. XD
Unless they're the "Scarlet Mummers", a particular and personal favourite of mine. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 07:31:29
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
... or scratch failures from th erecord and anals of history, or to alternatively emphasize them as a cruel prank to mar the reputation of his former team mate forever.
-Exactly. This is why Bards are the most powerful... |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 06:39:38
mummers aren't as fun or great as a Bard, especially one wo was there to know all the details firsthand, and lie about them to make them more exciting. XD
... or scratch failures from th erecord and anals of history, or to alternatively emphasize them as a cruel prank to mar the reputation of his former team mate forever.
XD ah, Bards... |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 06:13:35
They have mummers for that.... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 05:55:08
exuse me sir... fox at twilight is the epitome of shadowdancers.... oh wait you said bard...
YES I wrote shadowdancer on purpose. sue me.
anyway, I like bards, they make great talkers, back up healers and over all distractions.
Just ask D. Thann if you dont believe me.
besides without a bard who is going to sing at the aprty's funeral? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 05:34:31
And for a more combat-oriented bard, the Dervish is great! The Spelldancer and Virtuoso are great for some more magical abilities based on performance. Personally, I like a balance, but my favorite bard PC is a Dervish/Spelldancer mix, and he's amazing. I've never thought bards sucked- it just takes someone who's really good at ROLE-playing to play one well. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 12:20:05
For certain races bards make good multiclass characters. Elven bards make excellent arcane archers (the morale bonus to damage from their inspire abiities helps alot here) and are a well enough entry into bladesinger. Dwarven bards (yeah, you read that right) are greatly respected in their own communities and make decent tanks as they can still use their favored hammer or axe and shield fighting style. Gnomes are great tricksy bards, especially strong with a heavy illusion spell selection.
Some PrC's greatly boost a bards focus. The focluran lyricist (Complete Adventurer) greatly boosts a bards melee presence in the late game. The Seekers of the Sublime Chord (Complete Arcane) are great for getting some extra spellcasting oomph while the Divine Oracle (Complete Divine) does the same but in a specialized divination based way. I believe it was the Exemplar (Complete Adventurer) that makes a bard very good at a select few skills.
Also don't forget the bards single most broken ability, a high Diplomacy rating with a perverse charisma. Fast talking your enemies (reducing the full minute into a full round action of talking is not that punishing for a dedicated diplomancer-bard) into joining your party is the bane of many a DM in 3rd edition.  |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 11:32:46
Have to say that I completely agree with Sage's comment here, the bards has never been a class that "sucks", in fact always found them quite fun and rewarding to play them, even more than wizards, you have a caster-healer-suportive class all in one, you can call them the Swiss knife of D&D and also their background, people that plays music around collecting wisdom, or playing around or telling stories, make them the most interesting class in my humble opinion. Also some of the best novels characters are bards, Olie,Danilo, Halisstra,... |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 08:01:34
excuse me, sir, I ADORE the 3rd and 3.5th edition Bard Class!!
allow me to present a few exampls of EXCELENT Bard Character Builds.
1.) the Synergist.
primary Attributes are Charisma and Intelligence. secondary is Dexterity.
main Skills are Perform (Dance) and Perform (Sing), Balance, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Use Rope, Bluff, Sense Motive and Sleight of Hand.
fighting-style involves a Whip and Daggers (for throwing), or a Spiked Chain, with Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, and Precise Shot. Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack are also important, as is Combat Expertise.
this Bard focuses on Buff and Healing spells to provide the party as much support as possible.
2.) the Sabateur.
primary attributes are Cha and Dexterity. secondary is Intelligence.
main skills are Perform (any), Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Intimidate, Use Magic Device,and Use Rope.
combat style is Whip or Spiked Chain, with Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm.
this Bard uses mostly disruption spells, to offset enemy advantages, level the playing field, and provide support through distraction.
3.) the Silver-Tongued Fox.
primary attributes are Charisma and Intelligence. secondary is Wisdom.
main skills are Perform (any), Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, Gather Information, Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (Local), and Intimidate. secondary skills could include Spot, Search, and any Craft or Proffession.
combat doesn't matter, but he should focus on Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, and Sprng Attack. Run is also not a bad idea.
spell focus is on Divinations, Enchantments, and Illusions.
4.) the Lorist.
primary attributes are Intelligence and Charisma.
main skills include Knowledge (History), Knowledge (any others), Perform (Any), Gather Information, Search, Decypher Script, Speak Language, and any Prffession.
combat again doesn't matter. focus on feats that improve his skills and his knowledge base, and don't hesitate to pick up Jack-of-All-Trades and Versatile Performer.
spells focus on helping him uncover knowledge, both in terms of divinations and utilities.
5.) the Utility Guy.
need I even say more? realy, this one pretty much speaks for itself. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 04:58:08
It's been my opinion that the bard class has been on the low end of class design by dividing up it's features to be a Jack of All Trades, Master of None. They're pretty good at a lot of things, but have no focus and therefore don't work at peak performace (at the table) when used in a 4-person party.
That being said, they make GREAT 5th-wheels with the ability to semi-heal, use magic items like a Rogue, get into the combative mix, and their versatility cannot be matched. This is the main reason why they're the best class to play if your in a lite-combative campaign with heavy role-play elements. They practically shine as the party's face and work well with others.
Mechanics side, their spells aren't superior for combat unless your really good at making spells work "outside the box".
I've never had the inclination to play a bard for fear of the DM requiring me to actually perform some song, dance, or sing when I use my Bardic Performance ability. Just not happening.
I do, however, LOVE the bard in 4E as he's been beefed up a lot for the rigiors of the heavy-combat system. Not only do they make pretty decent healers, they're great at supporting the party through buffs(maybe not as well as a Warlord but who is, right?) and they can work great in combat as well, espically the Valorous bard. The fact that they can take multiple Multi-class feats is just astonishing and even better if your Bard is a Half-Elf. With the ability to pilfer from other Charisma-based classes they can easily Off-Tank with Paladin powers, secondary striker with Sorcerer powers, and even a few Controller powers with powers of the new Binder class from Heroes of Shadow. Still, the most versatile class of any system by far. |
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