| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sourcemaster2 |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 20:42:07
I've been wondering about something lately. It seems that every monster, adventurer, and noble has some sort of magic up his, her, or its sleeve. If making magical items cots so much time and resources, and magical training is long, difficult, and relatively rare, how can this be? Where is all of the magic coming from? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lina |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 01:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can agree with magic being a novelty, at least to a point. In some settings, heavy magic usage is necessary, even encouraged...
I can't really comment on your car analogy though, for I must be the only person in Australia without a car, or a driver's license for that matter...
You don't have a license! Well since Perth is mostly a car dependant city (public transport can be unreliable and not well set up, taxi's expensive as well) I don't see how you get around unless you live in suburbs closer to the city. Unless your like my younger brother who relies on his friends for transportation. |
| Shadowlord |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 19:32:26
Either that, or find a portal, steal a teleport without error scroll, and so on.
An another note, Wow Sage, you don't have a car? I never woud have guessed. It must be an issue of time though, as you are one of the smartest people I have met. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 19:20:09
Lina, I quite agree with you. If FR didn't have so much magic, what's to seperate it from the other fantasy worlds or medival stories?
Sage, the car analogy isn't really about you having a car. Even if you don't have a car, you take the bus or get a taxi, right? Lol. In FR, you don't have to know how to teleport. You can always hire a wizard to do it for the right price. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 13:57:23
I can agree with magic being a novelty, at least to a point. In some settings, heavy magic usage is necessary, even encouraged...
I can't really comment on your car analogy though, for I must be the only person in Australia without a car, or a driver's license for that matter...
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| Lina |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 07:45:10
Having magic I think is a novelty. If it's there and you can access it then, why not use it? It separates fantasy from the everyday drab real world events. Here we rely more and more on technology for survival. In FR they rely mostly on magic to get ahead. For one thing I can't survive without a car to get from one place to the other as well as doing mundane chores like shopping. The equivalent of a car in magical terms would be teleportation for travelling long distances; and boots of speed, potion of stamina and bracers of strength for shopping. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 06:41:40
Actually DDH_101 has hit the mark. That scene in The Crystal Shard is probably the best and most accurate portrayal of Dwarven magical item creation. Make the effort and read through the relevant section, it should provide enough answers and atmosphere for you to understanding the fundamental prowess and skill that dwarven smiths use when forging their spectacular weapons of war...
I'll try and post some useful rules from the relevant tomes when I get a chance as well, unless somebody here beats me to it...
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| DDH_101 |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 04:55:20
Sourcemaster, if you want to know you can read "The Crystal Shard" by RAS to find out. He describes the whole process of Bruenor crafting Aegis-Fang. Dwarves forge magical weapons and armour mainly through their skills. Some of them have such talent and skills for this kinda work that their products turn out to be very powerful. Some pray to their gods before working and the dwarven gods might take a liking to them and use their powers to help the weapon crafter make something powreful. |
| Sourcemaster2 |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 21:41:44
DDH_101 mentioned dwarven craftsmen creating magic items. I have wondered for some time how this process works. After all, these dwarves(as far as I know) are not magic-users. So how is it possible for them to crats magic items of any kind, much less the powerful omes they are said to? Is it the mithral that they use? Or some strange, fairly passive form of spellcasting?
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| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 07:32:01
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
I think it is a tricky bit of balancing; at lower levels magic should be relatively rare, and the finding of such an item should be a triumph. However, at higher levels the flow of magic needs to increase to some extent I think. Not hugely, but t some extent, otherwise you can be somewhat underpowered. I know, I've had it happen, and while adding a wee extra challenge I think the players resent being too magic starved at that point. I personally like to keep the settings low magic, or at least my parties. Its okay if the monsters use gobs of magic, so long as my player do not get it. 
Some good points Edain. I think for the most part, magic use, and the level of magic in a campaign needs to be well regulated by the DM, and even the players to an extent.
Powergamers have a tendency (this is a generalisation and is not directed specifically at all powergamers) to overwhelm a 'weak' DM, and can sometimes bring about situations (especially with magical weapons) where high-magic becomes a focus for a game. This is not necessarily wrong, but it can serve to unbalance a campaign where magic usage has been well regulated.
Overall, the level of magic in a campaign should be decided before a game begins, or, if certain changes in the campaign's plot bring forth changes in the level of magic usage...Take the gods leaving Krynn during the Cataclysm, thereby cutting the population of Ansalong off from all forms of arcane and divine magic. PCs in this era would be playing in a very low-magic setting, but once the plot changes, and the magics are returned, the level of magic increases once again calling for the necessity of regulation to maintain balance.
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| DDH_101 |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 05:49:37
Lol. No, the DM wasn't THAT easy on us. It was quite awhile ago so I don't really remember. I think it was around level 7... The only reason I remembered this was that when we found out that the weapon was a +3 vorpal sword, us PCs kinda complained. I was like, "As much as I like the weapon, I don't think an orc tribe would have vorpal swords and mighty staves." Lol. |
| Shadowlord |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:24:11
Wow, what were you? Level 1 or something? |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:10:02
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, magic should never be like candy. I'm all in favor of common low-level magics for the Realms, but not higher ones. Regenerating items for fifth-level characters sounds overbalanced.
Not only is it overbalanced, it also takes away an element of realism in your game (or as close to realism as one can get in a fantasy setting). This reminds me alot of the 'Elemental' type fan-created setting that was released last year. It was heavily based on the Realms, but nearly every peasant and farmer had access to +1 enchanted items, and/or weapons...and that is just wrong...
Sage, I quite agree with you. There are some DMs who often make the mistake of giving out good items at an early level. That makes a campaign very easy for the PCs. I remember playing one campaign where my party and I were so stocked and armed with powerful magic that we left behind a +3 vorpal sword in a cave because we thought it was too weak. Lol. |
| Edain Shadowstar |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:07:32
I think it is a tricky bit of balancing; at lower levels magic should be relatively rare, and the finding of such an item should be a triumph. However, at higher levels the flow of magic needs to increase to some extent I think. Not hugely, but t some extent, otherwise you can be somewhat underpowered. I know, I've had it happen, and while adding a wee extra challenge I think the players resent being too magic starved at that point. I personally like to keep the settings low magic, or at least my parties. Its okay if the monsters use gobs of magic, so long as my player do not get it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:37:39
Hmmm...that sounds like an interesting idea. It also reminds me of a similar paradigm shift that my own world of 'Gateway' has been operating under the last 500 years, but that's another story for another scroll on another forum...
The methodologies may differ, but the 'fall' of a deitific pantheon will have that effect.
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| Belfar |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:31:38
Farmer's having +1 items? That is utterly rediculous. That would be similar to us giving an automatic rifle to a civilian. I was thinking of homebrewing a setting where magic is somewhat supressed in favor of science. Magic users are feared because they control such a dangerous force and scientists are revered for helping the common people make their lives easier. A nice twist I would think. It would also let me use my class I just made called the gnome gunner. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:24:16
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, magic should never be like candy. I'm all in favor of common low-level magics for the Realms, but not higher ones. Regenerating items for fifth-level characters sounds overbalanced.
Not only is it overbalanced, it also takes away an element of realism in your game (or as close to realism as one can get in a fantasy setting). This reminds me alot of the 'Elemental' type fan-created setting that was released last year. It was heavily based on the Realms, but nearly every peasant and farmer had access to +1 enchanted items, and/or weapons...and that is just wrong...
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| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:49:58
while i agree magic is never something 2 be treated with any disrespect, i love magic, thats y im a spellsage. i love everything about magic, its what makes the FR so great. i love magical lore n everything like that. but spellsages treat magic very respecfully n fron upon any misuse of it |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:06:42
Well, magic should never be like candy. I'm all in favor of common low-level magics for the Realms, but not higher ones. Regenerating items for fifth-level characters sounds overbalanced. |
| Belfar |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 14:57:45
My DM is pretty bad about giving out magic items. Our thief acquired armlets of fast healing/1 at about 5th level. Mistake me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that go for 50,000+ gold on the market? It takes away from the excitement when you find a magic weapon or item every other gaming session. I would try Greyhawk out but I've devoted way too much time to learning about Faerun and the Forgotten Realms to switch over to another campaign setting because of a minor problem. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 09:06:16
Most of my own FR campaigns are run on a low-magic basis. I prefer it this way, since most of the other settings I game in are of a similar power level...DL for instance.
The only time, higher magics, come into play are when the planes become a regular component in an FR game. But then, it is strictly regulated, and magic levels are kept in accordance with PC levels.
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| Lord Rad |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 08:25:21
quote:
Originally posted by Belfar
I personally am not much of a fan of magic items. My favorite parts of my campaigns is when there is little or no magic and it completely depends on the PCs skills and thinking power to get through an encounter. I think there are way too many magic items available to PCs in the campaigns I have played recently. You could pretty much get anything you wanted if you could afford it and it could be possibly aquired in a city. But then again it is Faerun. Maybe I just prefer more swords than sorcery.
I agree totally, Belfar! My campaign is much the same and whilst i LOVE the Realms I do take it to a lower-magic level.... my players get all over excited then when they find the most mundane +1 magical weapon or whatever......which is the way it should be!  |
| Shadowlord |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 05:09:40
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
I don't know, the Zhents can be pretty dumb at times.
AT TIMES?!?!? Try all the time  |
| Edain Shadowstar |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:52:51
Ever hear of Greyhawk?
Sorry Alaundo...I'll get back to my filing...
*runs off towards his office humming* |
| Belfar |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:25:29
I personally am not much of a fan of magic items. My favorite parts of my campaigns is when there is little or no magic and it completely depends on the PCs skills and thinking power to get through an encounter. I think there are way too many magic items available to PCs in the campaigns I have played recently. You could pretty much get anything you wanted if you could afford it and it could be possibly aquired in a city. But then again it is Faerun. Maybe I just prefer more swords than sorcery. |
| Edain Shadowstar |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:22:51
I don't know, the Zhents can be pretty dumb at times. |
| Shadowlord |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 03:59:53
Also, in Temptations of Elminster, he was only hiding low-level magic items. Hardly the type of item that, oh say, Manshoon (formerly) of the Zhentarim, would slave over...... |
| Edain Shadowstar |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 03:26:01
Also, you will find most 'greedy mages' are disenclined to risk their own lives, thus if they wanted to acquire the long-lost maigc of old they would have to send mercenaries to get it. Of course they will likely prove inept and end up corpses for other, truely skilled adventurers to loot. Also, special note goes to the treasures of the Elves and that of Netheril. Firstly, elves are somewhat protective of their treasures, going to truely impressive lengths to protect their treasure from looters and to get it back if stolen. I think this is generally downplayed, but generally elves are portrayed as disliking the idea of others taking and using their items. That is not to say elves will not make lavish gifts of said items to thier friends and allies, they just think of many adventurers as akin to looters and tomb-robbers (and some are). As for Netheril, much of their treasure is either buried way beneath the Anarouch, or in the hands of greedy liches and shades, and thus a bit difficult for just anyone to get their hands on, but not impossible. |
| Dracandos the Spellsage |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:03:35
quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
I humble myself before you, sages all. I didn't consider all the ancient magic lying around. But why haven't greedy mages gathered up most of the items that have been around for centuries? It seems easier-not to mention less expensive-than crafting your own.
they have tried. some succeded but most lay dead in where they traveled 2 find such magical items. these items r not simply lying on the ground inside a cave, but most r lost under the ground, in dungeons where powerful creatures keep watch, and in tombs where the undead guards of the deceast protect their masters and their belongings even in the afterlife. so as u c, it is not that simple, of course many of these items have been recovered, a plain weakly enchanted sword may be older then it seems with the magic properties that has been bestowed upon it. but many more still await 2 be found...along with other secrets. |
| Signal-9 |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 04:48:27
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I believe, my good Sourcemaster, that the answer to your question is: "Welcome to Faerun".
Moreso than almost any other defined world , Faerun has magic coming out of its ears. Unlike say, Greyhawk, where your average peasant might be unaware of magic altogether, Faerunians have come to accept it as a normal part of life.......so it should not be surprising that everyone and their dog has a ring or rod or staff of whatever....
Though it can be a bit much, from time to time....
I noticed very much. Although I played the games and such... I noticed the books have alot of magic in them. I come from the LOTR and the Dragonlance novels, which do not have that much magic. But its a refreshing change from the untapped worlds I used to read |
| Sourcemaster2 |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 03:56:33
I humble myself before you, sages all. I didn't consider all the ancient magic lying around. But why haven't greedy mages gathered up most of the items that have been around for centuries? It seems easier-not to mention less expensive-than crafting your own. |
