| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 03:32:08
Warning contains spoils from Books 1 and 2 of The Last Mythal series
What deity would the Daemonfey worship?
Races of Faerun says Ghaundaur is the Fey'ri favoured deity but what about other deities and powerful outsiders such as Moander or Malkizid both of whom have stronger ties to the Daemonfey
Moander has potential ties to Sarya as House Dlardageth is originally from Cormanthor and the Dalelands is one of the regions where Moander had a lot of Elven worshipers
Malkizid has his own history with Sun elves dating back to the crown wars and more recent ties to the Daemonfey, What Domains would Malkizid grant to a Cleric? Could he grant them himself or would he need a true deity to help him out (Gargauth would be the most likely to help)
Note: I havent Read the 3rd book in the Last Mythal trilogy |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 31 Jul 2006 : 19:15:33
The Ghaunadaur reference in Races of Faerun aside I would have suggested either:
Kiaransalee - since I think the Fey'ri would have a significant thirst for vengeance and she doesn't always take drow form. Also there would be enough of them in one place crying out for vengeance that could attract her via her portfolio sense. Vhaeraun may be a second choice since vengeance is part of his portfolio now.
Mythrien Sarath (Dragon 251) - The Watcher over Mythals could be one they'd be interested in. I'm saying this with a large pinch of salt as well.
Personally, I don't really understand why the Fey'ri would worship Ghaunadaur. I think their gold elven haughtiness would have railed against such a deity. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 23:25:11
I said "little more than." :) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 23:05:07
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Why would a Fey'ri even know about Garagos, who is now little more than a memory of a Netherese battle god 1,400 years defeated?
Garagos was known as Targus in the days of Netheril, and his worship may have diminished since his defeat by Tempus, but he HAS survived and been worshipped through all these years, and thus he could hardly be considered "a memory of a defetated god". 
Enough ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and I don't see a reason why a Fey'ri wouldn't know about him. Another matter is why would a civilized Fey'ri worship a battle-mad and almost insane "human" god.
I have thought about introducing Moander into my campaign as a new "saviour" of elvenkind (I have blissfully ignored all the events in The Last Mythal series). To all elves, he/it appears as a elven high mage who either absorbed some of Moander's power in Dark Watch at the same moment when Finder slew the Old Moldy, or perhaps he absorbed/can tap into some of the backlash/energy of the high magic ritual (or mythal/other magic in Tsornyl's ruins) that bound the Creeping Evil into Tsornyl. Thus, he might appear as a very intriguing divine being to the Eldreth Veluuthra...  |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 22:18:37
The General and the Oinoloth would not allow this - at least, not without some manipulation going on behind the scenes. Malkazid would only be but a pawn. |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 22:17:26
I think that it might be best to think of Malkizid as not so much a 'Loth lord but a 'Loth Mafia Don. (Don is a Italian word for lord, still).
Malkizid lives on the Bastion of Despair and Doom, a battle field for the Realm's Blood War. A perfect place for an exiled Devil lord and his armies. Also a place that troubled 'loths could come for safety if the offended the major players on the Blood Rift.
It is likely that Malkizid collected the 'loths by promising them protection from their enemies in exchange for service. Making sure to keep them in his constant control.
It is likely that Malkizid is thought of as a lord due to the numbers of 'loths that he collected or the power that he holds over them. Doesn't mean that the 'loths aren't thinking of rebelling, but they don't hold the power. They would be facing their enemies with the regular 'loths and the Devil armies of Malkizid as well as the 'loths that stay with him.
Just my two cents. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:35:53
Yup. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:34:10
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
It wasn't the Devil part that annoyed me (Malagard was not one), but rather the fact that he's BOTH.
The yugoloths are without an exception elitists and race-o-centric, and obssessed with purity. They created two new ENTIRE races of fiends JUST to get rid of non-Neutral Evil taints. Do you really think they'd LEGITIMATELY allow a LE-tainted lord to rise among their ranks? They outcasted Apomps for having a Chaotic taint, and he was a BAERNALOTH!
Hell. No. :)
That is soooo true...that bothered me too...and Yugoloths really don't have "lords", like the Baatezu and Tanar'ri do anyways...just the General of Ghenna and the Oinoloth (sp?  )
Kalin |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 20:45:42
Why would a Fey'ri even know about Garagos, who is now little more than a memory of a Netherese battle god 1,400 years defeated? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 20:38:56
>>Malar and Garagos would SO not be appropriate to the Fey'ri. Remember, they are as >>arrogant, 'cultured,' and civilized, in their own twisted way, as Sun Elves.
Yeah, but I can see a 4 armed fey'ri warrior worshipping Garagos before I can see said same warrior worshipping Moander the sludge god. If there are any fey'ri druids, I could see them possibly turning to Malar.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:59:39
Malar and Garagos would SO not be appropriate to the Fey'ri. Remember, they are as arrogant, 'cultured,' and civilized, in their own twisted way, as Sun Elves. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 22:44:19
Hmmm, interesting thread, but I find it interesting that noone even mentioned other members of the Faerunian pantheon. Granted, most are seen as "human" deities, but many aren't necessarily. Malar for instance is more bestial than human. Garagos would be another. The cold and dispassionate elemental lords. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 01:58:24
Ive decided to go with Moander
A flesh out version of the NPC can be found here
http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7153
Feel free to coment |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 26 Jun 2006 : 01:04:52
It wasn't the Devil part that annoyed me (Malagard was not one), but rather the fact that he's BOTH.
The yugoloths are without an exception elitists and race-o-centric, and obssessed with purity. They created two new ENTIRE races of fiends JUST to get rid of non-Neutral Evil taints. Do you really think they'd LEGITIMATELY allow a LE-tainted lord to rise among their ranks? They outcasted Apomps for having a Chaotic taint, and he was a BAERNALOTH!
Hell. No. :) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 25 Jun 2006 : 03:32:53
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I didn't dispute that.
You can't be both a Yugoloth and a Baatezu at the same time. He fell into Baator, became a DEVIL, and then gained POLITICAL influence over the 'Loths (probably orchestrated by the General of Gehenna or the Oinoloth without his knowledge).
Not all Devils are Baatezu, and you don't have to be a Yugoloth to be a lord of them. |
| Eremite |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 17:42:12
Another piece of Old Mouldy would also appear to be in Mysteries of the Moonsea (although I fell asleep AGAIN trying to read that chapter so I may have it wrong). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 16:59:30
Moander isn't fully dead yet... A piece of Ol' Slimy is still hanging out in Tsornyl.
|
| El Magnifico Uno |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 08:49:37
Mmmm... Weirdness.. Coulda sworn I had first read that on the wiki, must of been some other site.. Oh well, doesn't matter where I first saw it, I guess since we have the F&P reference.. In any case, Ghanduar is apparently the god of drow outcasts as stated right there in F&P on pg 111 which you also seem to have mentioned.. As far as the elf god of outcasts for non-drow, I guess you'd be dead on with Fenmarel..
And yeah, Moander is a dead god, but does anything truly stay dead in FR? I mean really now, in your 20+ years you must have noticed that villains seem to be rather tenacious.. How'd Lovecraft put it? "That is not dead which can eternal lie".. Plus, since we're postulating ideas outside the "canon" then we can get away with using a suppossedly dead god.. It's an exercise in creativity, we're not writing a rulebook here.. :-P
And of course, had I bothered to actually read RoF I would have known the answer to my original question.. Fey'ri started worshipping That Which Lurks about a century ago when he/it manifested to one of the Fey'ri sub-houses.. "The fact that most of these sun elves now worship a drow deity is evidence of how corrupt they have become.".. Well there's the answer right there in black & white.. Doh!.. Oh, and it even mentions Fenmarel as appealling to the "rare neutral fey'ri".. Go figure..
And sorry to hear about your tact.. That can happen when it gets late..  |
| El Magnifico Uno |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 08:08:17
scererar:
quote:
Actually the following is the god of elven outcasts, according to RoF - Fenmarel Mestarine
Right, my apologies, I should have been more explicit.. Please consider the appropriate phrase to have read "They're outcasts, Ghuanadaur is kinda the god of drow-ish outcasts".. See F&P pg 111 for reference, though truthfully I pulled the first reference off of the FR-Wiki.. That better?
Wooly:
quote:
I don't think so... The fey'ri still think along elven lines, for the most part. They'll not willingly turn to a drow deity.
Umm... Yeah that was kinda the point I was trying to make in a mildly sarcastic tongue-in-cheek manner (my bad - should have used an emote).. As I mentioned earlier, it would seem to me that Moander would be a better choice.. |
| scererar |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 07:32:36
quote:
Originally posted by El Magnifico Uno
Well the Dlardrageth have been around for a heck of a long time, and Sarya wasn't exactly a spring chicken either.. Add into that the fact that (IIRC) Ghaunadaur wasn't worshipped exclusively by the Ilythiiri.. I seem to recall references of post-Crown Wars Lloth worshipping drow oppressing drow Ghuanadaur-ites throughout the ages.. Isn't there even a drow city of Ghaunadaur worshippers (or am I getting that confused with Vhaerun?).. In any case, I don't think it would be too far fetched to figure that anybody "in the know" would be aware that the predominant civilized worshippers of Ghuanaduar were drow.. And given the age, power, and resources of Sayra and House Dlardrageth (before their imprisonment) they would most certainly be the type of people who were "in the know".. So given that all of that deduction is correct, why would a bunch of haughty elitist sun elves, who just happened augement their bloodline with a little demon blood, decide to worship the same god their enemies do/did??
Well, because they just decided too.. They're outcasts, Ghuanadaur is kinda the god of elfy outcasts, so it just makes everything easy from a publishing standpoint.. He's spooky and evil, they're spooky and evil.. It all just sorta works out.. Stop over-analyzing it so much, and just accept it as the way that it is..
err... right..
Actually the following is the god of elven outcasts, according to RoF
Fenmarel Mestarine - the god of elven outcasts, appeals to the rare neutral Fey'ri; wishing to learn the secrets to survival in modern Faerun.
Page 111 of faiths and pantheons, spells out more on Ghaundaur
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 05:31:58
quote:
Originally posted by El Magnifico Uno
Well the Dlardrageth have been around for a heck of a long time, and Sarya wasn't exactly a spring chicken either.. Add into that the fact that (IIRC) Ghaunadaur wasn't worshipped exclusively by the Ilythiiri.. I seem to recall references of post-Crown Wars Lloth worshipping drow oppressing drow Ghuanadaur-ites throughout the ages.. Isn't there even a drow city of Ghaunadaur worshippers (or am I getting that confused with Vhaerun?).. In any case, I don't think it would be too far fetched to figure that anybody "in the know" would be aware that the predominant civilized worshippers of Ghuanaduar were drow.. And given the age, power, and resources of Sayra and House Dlardrageth (before their imprisonment) they would most certainly be the type of people who were "in the know".. So given that all of that deduction is correct, why would a bunch of haughty elitist sun elves, who just happened augement their bloodline with a little demon blood, decide to worship the same god their enemies do/did??
Well, because they just decided too.. They're outcasts, Ghuanadaur is kinda the god of elfy outcasts, so it just makes everything easy from a publishing standpoint.. He's spooky and evil, they're spooky and evil.. It all just sorta works out.. Stop over-analyzing it so much, and just accept it as the way that it is..
err... right..
I don't think so... The fey'ri still think along elven lines, for the most part. They'll not willingly turn to a drow deity. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 01:37:00
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
aren't fey'ri outsiders? thus they don't need a god to avoid getting stuck in The Wall, and they can spank enough without divine spells.
Fey'ri are planetouched like Tieflings and Aasimars |
| El Magnifico Uno |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 00:47:47
Well the Dlardrageth have been around for a heck of a long time, and Sarya wasn't exactly a spring chicken either.. Add into that the fact that (IIRC) Ghaunadaur wasn't worshipped exclusively by the Ilythiiri.. I seem to recall references of post-Crown Wars Lloth worshipping drow oppressing drow Ghuanadaur-ites throughout the ages.. Isn't there even a drow city of Ghaunadaur worshippers (or am I getting that confused with Vhaerun?).. In any case, I don't think it would be too far fetched to figure that anybody "in the know" would be aware that the predominant civilized worshippers of Ghuanaduar were drow.. And given the age, power, and resources of Sayra and House Dlardrageth (before their imprisonment) they would most certainly be the type of people who were "in the know".. So given that all of that deduction is correct, why would a bunch of haughty elitist sun elves, who just happened augement their bloodline with a little demon blood, decide to worship the same god their enemies do/did??
Well, because they just decided too.. They're outcasts, Ghuanadaur is kinda the god of elfy outcasts, so it just makes everything easy from a publishing standpoint.. He's spooky and evil, they're spooky and evil.. It all just sorta works out.. Stop over-analyzing it so much, and just accept it as the way that it is..
err... right.. |
| keijemon |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 23:11:11
aren't fey'ri outsiders? thus they don't need a god to avoid getting stuck in The Wall, and they can spank enough without divine spells. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 22:07:14
The Ilythiiri fell into the worship of Ghaundaur before the Crown Wars started. :) |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 22:03:58
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Yeah. I doubt that the other Elves at large would know much of Ghaundaur's involvement with the Ilythiiri of old.
Please explain this to me. I thought I knew about the Crown wars but this statement is frustrating my best attempts at remembering any relevant info. Or are you referencing Ilythiiri pre-crown wars? Please educate me. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 21:46:43
Hehe...
"I am.. The Real Corellon!"
"But why can't we take you as our patron deity?"
"Chaotic Banite heresy!"
"OIC, very nice." |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 21:42:47
Considering how power-grasping they are, if Bane created an elvish version of himself, he'd prolly get some fey'ri worshippers. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 21:32:37
Yeah. I doubt that the other Elves at large would know much of Ghaundaur's involvement with the Ilythiiri of old. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 21:23:25
Ghaundaur is more often known of as an Elder Elemental Evil, not a god of oozes or drow. |
| El Magnifico Uno |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 20:16:48
Just seems a bit odd for Fey'ri to be worshipping something that most would consider a "drow god".. IIRC the drow (before they became drow) started worshipping the primordial ooze thing a long time before the fey'ri popped up.. And from what I've read, it seems the fey'ri still hold on to a number of pretensions of being haughty sun elves (but obviously better in their own estimation).. Given that's the case, why would they condescend to dealing with Ghaunadar if he is primarily associated with drow (and oozes - although oozes aren't reknowned for a highly developed culture so they don't really count).. Then again, if the Fey'ri are willing to get it on with demons, then maybe it isn't so far-fetched.. But still, to me it doesn't seem to fit in with what I envision the Fey'ri as being.. Maybe Ghaunadar could have tricked them into it (a cunning ancient ooze?)?.. I don't know, but to me, I would think Moander would be a better choice..
EDIT - Grammar |
