| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 03:31:04
I know that positive energy affects undead in a nasty way, but does it have any negative effect on creatures from the Plane of Shadow? Speaking of shadows, do these undead beasties have any links to the Plane of Shadow? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
-- George Krashos
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| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 12:46:03
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Thanks all. Okay, on to shadowstuff then. I've looked through my core books but can't seem to find (if it exists) a broad, generic category of creatures related to 'shadow' or the 'Plane of Shadow'. Undead are undead, extraplanar are just that - anything special about living life in 'the shadows'? Where is the Shade template (ala Erevis Cale) found?
-- George Krashos
Chuckle. George missed a reference out of the FRCS! Tee hee.
--Eric |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 12:44:59
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
There is a "Shadow Creature" template found in both Manual of the Planes and Lords of Madness. These creatures don't seem to have a special name, they are just referred to as shadow this or shadow that.
There is a grouping of shadow inhabitants called "Ephemera", also from the Manual of the Planes including the Dark Beast, the Umbral Banyan, and the Ecalypse. I think this was an attempt at creating an iconic type of shadow creature, much like elementals or demons or devils, etc. There is certainly room to add more types of ephemera. You might even use the label "ephemeral" to describe shadowy creatures in general.
I was also thinking "umbral". One of the ephemera is called an umbral banyan. In Libris Mortis they introduced the "Umbral Creature" template. Umbral creatures are a type of undead made out of shadowstuff that hates both life and light equally. Umbral might thus have connotations of both shadow combined with negative energy or undead.
The label associated with negative energy creatures is "entropic". There is an "Entropic Creature" template in the Manual of the Planes.
I touched on this a bit in Power of Faerun, page 60, as a new weapon property. (Effectively "shadowscourge" is a bane weapon vs. creatures with ties to the plane of shadow.) I believe the suggestion to make an "arachnoid"-style group or a new subtype makes a lot of sense.
--Eric |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:41:24
There is a "Shadow Creature" template found in both Manual of the Planes and Lords of Madness. These creatures don't seem to have a special name, they are just referred to as shadow this or shadow that.
There is a grouping of shadow inhabitants called "Ephemera", also from the Manual of the Planes including the Dark Beast, the Umbral Banyan, and the Ecalypse. I think this was an attempt at creating an iconic type of shadow creature, much like elementals or demons or devils, etc. There is certainly room to add more types of ephemera. You might even use the label "ephemeral" to describe shadowy creatures in general.
I was also thinking "umbral". One of the ephemera is called an umbral banyan. In Libris Mortis they introduced the "Umbral Creature" template. Umbral creatures are a type of undead made out of shadowstuff that hates both life and light equally. Umbral might thus have connotations of both shadow combined with negative energy or undead.
The label associated with negative energy creatures is "entropic". There is an "Entropic Creature" template in the Manual of the Planes. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 06:39:02
Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals. Looks like I may have to go down the path suggested by Arivia and create my own category, But maybe not - using 'positive energy' may do just fine.
-- George Krashos
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| Arivia |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 04:22:13
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
So is there a particular category relating to creatures from the Plane of Shadow or who have links with the Plane of Shadow. Basically, anything that is a game label that can be attached to 'shadowy stuff'?
-- George Krashos
No. *shrugs*
EDIT: Pre-existing rules cases exist where subcategories(as opposed to subtypes) of creatures have been defined after the creatures have been printed; see Underdark or Serpent Kingdoms for examples. You'll need to define the group, give it a name, and all of its members if you do so.
EDIT2: Libris Mortis and the 3e Draconomicon include interlocking examples of subcategories, too. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 04:18:41
So is there a particular category relating to creatures from the Plane of Shadow or who have links with the Plane of Shadow. Basically, anything that is a game label that can be attached to 'shadowy stuff'?
-- George Krashos
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| Arivia |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 03:31:11
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Thanks all. Okay, on to shadowstuff then. I've looked through my core books but can't seem to find (if it exists) a broad, generic category of creatures related to 'shadow' or the 'Plane of Shadow'. Undead are undead, extraplanar are just that - anything special about living life in 'the shadows'? Where is the Shade template (ala Erevis Cale) found?
-- George Krashos
The closest thing to a pre-existing master list is the encounter list on page 187 of the Planar Handbook; it's a bit outdated now, and needs adjustment for Realms sources, the new Tome of Magic, and the MMIII, off the top of my head. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:14:26
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Ah,
So they did update it for 3e/3.5e. :)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a
at least parts of it. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:12:33
Ah,
So they did update it for 3e/3.5e. :) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:10:28
Shade template in the monster section of the 3.0 FRCS, page 314-5
3.5 web enhancement adds these notes.
"Shade: Outsider; +9/+12; 5 ft./5 ft.; LA +5. " |
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:06:06
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Thanks all. Okay, on to shadowstuff then. I've looked through my core books but can't seem to find (if it exists) a broad, generic category of creatures related to 'shadow' or the 'Plane of Shadow'. Undead are undead, extraplanar are just that - anything special about living life in 'the shadows'? Where is the Shade template (ala Erevis Cale) found?
-- George Krashos
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was printed in one of the black books from 2e.... the Monstrous Compendium Annuals. #4 to be exact as well as Greyhawk Adventures according to that sourcebook. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:00:55
Thanks all. Okay, on to shadowstuff then. I've looked through my core books but can't seem to find (if it exists) a broad, generic category of creatures related to 'shadow' or the 'Plane of Shadow'. Undead are undead, extraplanar are just that - anything special about living life in 'the shadows'? Where is the Shade template (ala Erevis Cale) found?
-- George Krashos
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| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 20:44:57
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Ah, I don't have any Eberron material, so I didn't know that.
Hmm. Not sure about the Undying thing..... Mummies sometimes were claimed to maybe be positive energizered undead, in 2e lore but that was only a theory.
No, no, I'm referring to the vast majority of Eberronian deathless, which are collectively referred to as the Undying Court. I'm thinking there's stats for one other member besides the ones in the ECS, but I'll be damned if I can remember where...anyway, back to George's request.
Ah, I have no idea then..... as I said, if it's in a Eberron book, I don't have it. :) |
| Arivia |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 20:05:51
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Ah, I don't have any Eberron material, so I didn't know that.
Hmm. Not sure about the Undying thing..... Mummies sometimes were claimed to maybe be positive energizered undead, in 2e lore but that was only a theory.
No, no, I'm referring to the vast majority of Eberronian deathless, which are collectively referred to as the Undying Court. I'm thinking there's stats for one other member besides the ones in the ECS, but I'll be damned if I can remember where...anyway, back to George's request. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:37:44
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Plus there are those positive energy undead in... Book of Exhalted Deeds, I believe. I forgot thier name.
Deathless. They also appear in the ECS, and I can't help but shake the feeling there's a single Undying x I'm forgetting somewhere.
Ah, I don't have any Eberron material, so I didn't know that.
Hmm. Not sure about the Undying thing..... Mummies sometimes were claimed to maybe be positive energizered undead, in 2e lore but that was only a theory. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:34:26
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Plus there are those positive energy undead in... Book of Exhalted Deeds, I believe. I forgot thier name.
Deathless. They also appear in the ECS, and I can't help but shake the feeling there's a single Undying x I'm forgetting somewhere. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:30:04
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
No; on a related note, this is really muddled in 3e; some positive energy sources do not negatively affect undead, likely as a result of the fact that there's no consistent definition of positive and negative energy. The fact that positive energy is split into two kinds(healing, and healing+temporary hit points) doesn't help either.
Plus there are those positive energy undead in... Book of Exhalted Deeds, I believe. I forgot thier name. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:24:49
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I know that positive energy affects undead in a nasty way, but does it have any negative effect on creatures from the Plane of Shadow?
No; on a related note, this is really muddled in 3e; some positive energy sources do not negatively affect undead, likely as a result of the fact that there's no consistent definition of positive and negative energy. The fact that positive energy is split into two kinds(healing, and healing+temporary hit points) doesn't help either.
quote:
Speaking of shadows, do these undead beasties have any links to the Plane of Shadow? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
-- George Krashos
No. The new Tome of Magic uses a new type of creature, the shadow elemental, as shadow incarnate. To help clear this up, I should probably work on some way to get shadow/dark template creatures or shadow elementals associated with the shadowdancer, instead of shadows themselves. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 17:32:31
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
its been established that shadows have links to both the negative material plane (as undead) and the plane of shadow. I know I've read it in several places, but I can't say where. Therefore, positive energy affects them as it does other undead. However, I can't say that positive energy negatively impacts other shadow plane inhabitants.
Established where? The 3.5e MM doesn't have any text saying that they have connections to the Shadow Plane and as I said above, neither did 2e's. What are your sources? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 16:17:54
its been established that shadows have links to both the negative material plane (as undead) and the plane of shadow. I know I've read it in several places, but I can't say where. Therefore, positive energy affects them as it does other undead. However, I can't say that positive energy negatively impacts other shadow plane inhabitants. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 03:44:17
I'd say it wouldn't have negative effects on the plane of shadow since the plane of shadow is also connected to the positive energy plane since the plane of shadow is a transit plane like the astral and ethereal.
I checked 2e lore on Shadows from the large Monstrous Manual and it just says that they are connected to the Negative Material Plane.... whatever that is. I take that to mean the Negative energy plane. |
