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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 15:18:40
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I'm working with a NWN2 project that's creating Amn online, circa 1370 shortly after the invasion by Sythillis' army of manster races. The Sythillisian army consists of the following races
kobolds
goblins
ogres
hill giants
hobgoblins
human Cyricists (Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse)
I'm mostly a story/lore/setting guy when it comes to this pastime. I play computer games set in FR, and I don't have much experience wth the mechanics of tabletop D&D. I'd very much appreciate feedback from folks here on how you would build these monsters for a low magic, slow leveling setting for edition 3.5.
I've looked at the CRs and other guidelines for the above monster races in the 3.5 Monster Manual. Kobolds and goblins will be roughly on par at the bottom of the difficulty scale. But because of hobgoblins excel so greatly at military strategy and discipline, I'm thinking they should be at the top, as the captains. Much to the chagrin of the ogres, Sythyllis would be wisest to put the savvier hobgoblins in charge. (I've written up some lore for them, if anyone's interested in seeing it.) And not just because the hobgobs are the best tacticians, but also because they practice their fighting skills constantly, and more rigorously than any of the other races. I picture a group of three or more hobgoblins being the most difficult opponent of the lot--at least in terms of martial combat. Players will only encounter the hobgoblins in groups of three of greater, who fight superbly as a unit, and as such they'd be more formidable than solitary ogres and hill giants. (Think Spartans.) The greatest threat would however be Cysicists who wield arcane magic, however, since in our gameworld Amnian culture continues to fear and punish the use of arcane magic. (Divine magic is okay though.)
With that basic overview in mind, how would you build these monsters?
Mod edit: Moved this topic from the ethers to "Running the Realms", which seemed appropriate, and is a place where it can be read! 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Nov 2007 16:48:49
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 17:56:07
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Not quite sure what you mean by "building" the monsters. In terms of computer games, I'm not sure, but I can offer the following D&D advice:
For a group of 3 hobgoblins to be a stronger threat than a hill giant (which is quite large and strong), you'd probably want to give each hobbo at least 5 levels of fighter, maybe mixing in a level of rogue for extra flanking benefits. Or those could just be the captains, and the common foot-soldiers could be lower level, even the basic 1st level warriors as in the MM (or online system reference document).
Hope that helps! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 18:04:47
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You shouldn't neglect the rank and file soldiers of hobgoblins, because despite their natural tactical bent, most of them are low level warriors. A patrol with a good number of common 1st level hobgoblins led by a higher level hobgoblin fighter should come up once in a while.
That said, if you want deadly tactical squads of hobgoblin commandos, consider a band of "paired" combatants, 2 fighters and 2 rogues, under the command of a higher level hobgoblin fighter. The rogues will gain their flanking damaged from pairing off with the fighters against a common foe.
For a slightly more deadly, slightly larger commando force, you might have the "paired" groups of hobgoblin fighters and rogues, their leader, and perhaps two more rogues with ranged weapons that start the encounter in stealth mode and start firing once the others engage.
Also, for some reason I've always pictured hobgoblins as being fond of training war animals, so having encounters with hobgoblin rangers with hounds aiding them in the hunt might not be a bad idea. I don't remember if there were any apes in the NWN toolset, but hobgoblins used to have trained war apes in their lairs in some older products as well. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 22:02:14
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I don't remember if there were any apes in the NWN toolset, but hobgoblins used to have trained war apes in their lairs in some older products as well.
I don't recall seeing apes in either the official NWN or fan-created stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere out there, made an ape model for the game. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 22:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I don't remember if there were any apes in the NWN toolset, but hobgoblins used to have trained war apes in their lairs in some older products as well.
I don't recall seeing apes in either the official NWN or fan-created stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere out there, made an ape model for the game.
I used to play around with the toolset a lot before I found a flesh and blood group to play with again, and it didn't sound familiar, but I couldn't remember for sure, and I was afraid to open up the toolset again, for fear of spending hours using it to create NWN versions of items that never got officially statted up in the game like I used to.  |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 04:04:20
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As to there being no hobgoblin in the NWN2 creature palette, I've resized (enlarged) and retinted (red) the game's goblin model. And it worked out surprisingly well. Looks enough like a hobgoblin to work, imvho.
I'd love it if a NWN2 modeler out there ever created a model that matches the Slayer's Guide for Hobgoblins (which is great). That depiction looks kind of like something from Planet of the Apes. The body is practically identical to that of a human's. And in terms of their psychology as well, it strikes me that they are probably closest to human from among all their humanoid race cousins. |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 09:40:27
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I personally would be tempted to create some hobgoblin fighter racial substitution levels, ala the Races of series and several issues of Dragon. They'd probably give tactical benefits to their allies; a morale bonus seems particularly fitting (NWN 2 does have morale, right?).
Incidentally, I've always had the impression the Sythillisan Empire had a very small number of members of other races, such as a handful of bugbears and perhaps a couple of minotaurs. Perhaps I'm just getting confused by the brief encounter in Baldur's Gate 2 . |
Edited by - nbnmare on 26 Nov 2007 09:43:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 11:17:09
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For a more "complete" experience with the Sythilissan situation... you might also want to include the stinger infiltration mentioned in the tlincalli write-up in Monsters of Faerūn.
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Edited by - The Sage on 26 Nov 2007 11:18:04 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For a more "complete" experience with the Sythilissan situation... you might also want to include the stinger infiltration mentioned in the tlincalli write-up in Monsters of Faerūn.
Ah, but the setting is 1370 DR shortly after the invasion. We're using Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Sands as our source material, which makes no mention of Stingers at that time. So no Stinger War for us.
Also, for one thing, there are no stingers in the NWN2 toolset!
But moreover we didn't care for the Stinger War story at all. It seemed designed primarily to bring Amn into more or less line with surrounding canon of the region. We'd prefer to have something more epic and sweeping evolve from the Sythillisian invasion.
We're taking that point in the Realm's history as a point of departure in our own storytelling, and allowing the players to interactively write with us a unique history for the Lands of Intrigue and Shining South. To use a sci-fi concept, I guess you could think of our FR as an 'alternate universe' that branches off from official canon post late summer 1370--just one of an infinite array of possibles future that could develop from a given point in history. |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by freyar
Not quite sure what you mean by "building" the monsters.
By this I meant would you follow the 3.5 MM stats to a tee? Or would you modify them, tweaking them this way or that? |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 16:35:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
quote:
Originally posted by freyar
Not quite sure what you mean by "building" the monsters.
By this I meant would you follow the 3.5 MM stats to a tee? Or would you modify them, tweaking them this way or that?
Gotcha. Well, being a pen & paper DM, I'd pretty much follow the stats but add levels like I said. You can throw in some interesting feat choices, too (though I don't know how NWN works).
One of these days I have to play NWN, but I keep telling myself to finish Baldur's Gate first. Somehow, normal D&D keeps getting in the way.  |
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building Sythillis' monster races for ed. 3.5
