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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
551 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 04:57:09
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My party may make it to the Waterdeep in the near future and I have never run there. The city seems a bit large and intimidating. I don't have to worry much since none of my players are Realms buffs but I personally try to keep as canonic as possible.
My real issue is I normally run my sessions completely online and nearly completely on a battle map. I have successfully run large villages and even small towns this way but I fear that Waterdeep is just too big. My first thought was to cut it into smaller chunks maybe first by wards then maybe halving or quartering those so that I would have a full battle map of the city. But I am not sure this is the best route.
How do other people present Waterdeep? Do you read off every banner and shop name as they walk down a street, do people tend to funnel their players avoiding travel all together? I'm used to running in an environment where if the player wishes to go off the beaten path they can.
I am almost tempted to have them just start going up the Way of the Dragon and I would read off things they see. My fear is this might grow time consuming or hard to describe, there are blocks upon blocks or unnamed buildings.
Suggestions, please.
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The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 05:33:42
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As a general rule, the best way to handle Waterdeep is to invoke the flavor first rather than attempt to convey the whole totality of the city. It's a city of 100,000 to 600,000 depending on what time of year you're visiting it. Roughly, that means that it's pretty much got everything that a player character could possibly be interested in. It's the equivalent of ten to sixty smaller cities of Medieval times that have been crammed together.
Thus, for the better part of this story, I suggest that it's best to paint the city in broad strokes. There's massive amounts of Urban houses, several temple districts, taverns, restuarants from all over Faerun, and quarters that specifically cater to the tastes of various races that might choose to make their establishment here.
What is distinctly "Waterdeep" in flavor is these facts...
* That the city is largely gray and blue in color.
* Piergion's castle is visible from everywhere.
* There's a Massive Colossus in the harbor.
* The city is rife with dandies and merchant sons just like Sembia and they're about as worthless.
* Blackstaff Tower can be seen.
* The City is primarily a Port Town and there's a HUGE number of sailors and people who make their living from the sea present. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 09 Nov 2007 05:35:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 11:08:05
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| Get a copy of Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. There's a huge amount of lore in that book, plus on the ground descriptions of what you'd see and encounter in each ward. |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
551 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 14:36:00
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Ok I'll give Volo's Guide to Waterdeep a look over then. I was feeling overwhelmed since Waterdeep has so much material. I have Volo's Guide and I have City of Splendor and city systems and the new 3E source book. I just wasn't sure what was a good starting point it is rare for any place in Faerun to have so much published data about it.
A general question about the Volo's Guides, I know they are supposed to exist in character to some degree. What degree is that? Is it all the IC text that is printed there in? How many pages are they in the realms normally? |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 09 Nov 2007 17:23:16 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 17:07:11
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I would suggest the 3.5e City of Splendors: Waterdeep as well. I really enjoyed it.
EDIT: Sorry Gelcur, I do not think I even read your last post when I scribed this. |
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Edited by - Hawkins on 09 Nov 2007 17:25:15 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 23:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
How do other people present Waterdeep? Do you read off every banner and shop name as they walk down a street...
Certainly not! I imagine that would just get boring (for everyone), it wouldn't be worth the effort, and it probably wouldn't even convey the flavor of the city very well.
As was said before, I wouldn't go out of your way to show your players everything. They can't see everything, anyway--the city is just too big. So focus on what you need for your campaign. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 06:03:33
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don't forget the 2E version of city of splendors. it answers questions like where does the drinking water come from. Additionally, check out the novel City of Splendors by Ed Greenwood and Elaine Cunningham, for a good feel of what Waterdeep is about. |
Edited by - scererar on 19 Nov 2007 06:19:17 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 17:25:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
How do other people present Waterdeep? Do you read off every banner and shop name as they walk down a street, do people tend to funnel their players avoiding travel all together? I'm used to running in an environment where if the player wishes to go off the beaten path they can.
Suggestions, please.
I wouldn't describe every building, in fact with so many people in such a small space I doubt they will see every buidling as they walk up the dragon way, and if they are looking around, then every thief in Waterdeep will have then down as a 'tourist' and by the time they get to the end of the dragon way they will be left with just their boots on
What I would do is make a list of shops/building you would find - and then when the players say - "I need a ironmonger/swordsmith/apothecary/insert appropriate business" one magically pops up in the street that they are in.
Remember that the Watch is there for the players top ask questions of, i.e. to help folks around, so best use them to direct players to any specifics
The City System box set is a fatastic resource if you plan to run Waterdeep long term as it has tables to randomly generate buidlings (as does Waterdeep and the North FR1 - have no idea if the 3E book has as I haven't got it), but generally stick to
"you see rows of tallhouses with shops/warehouses and market stalls selling day-to-day items mixed in with the odd speciality shop"
That is the way I have always handled Waterdeep
Good luck!
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 21:08:45
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One of the tools I've used to make Waterdeep and other large cities more accessible to my PC's is to have them meet up with a linkman (latern bearer) or urchin who knows the city and offers to show them around for only a few silvers/day. These guides usually hang out around inns serving travelers and/or the gates and port area of the city. In some really large cities, they are even organized into guilds.
This way, I have a voice that I can use to introduce bits and pieces of history and "common" knowledge to the PC's. It also prevents them from getting lost or wandering into the "wrong" side of town without warning.
Of course, if the PC's want to find something or someone who's in the wrong side of town, thier guide just happens to know someone from that tougher neighborhood who can be trusted to show them around for only a few gold more. :) |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 00:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
One of the tools I've used to make Waterdeep and other large cities more accessible to my PC's is to have them meet up with a linkman (latern bearer) or urchin who knows the city and offers to show them around for only a few silvers/day. These guides usually hang out around inns serving travelers and/or the gates and port area of the city. In some really large cities, they are even organized into guilds.
This way, I have a voice that I can use to introduce bits and pieces of history and "common" knowledge to the PC's. It also prevents them from getting lost or wandering into the "wrong" side of town without warning.
Of course, if the PC's want to find something or someone who's in the wrong side of town, thier guide just happens to know someone from that tougher neighborhood who can be trusted to show them around for only a few gold more. :)
I was thinking, though...what if the supposedly trustworthy linkman was himself a thief, and led them directly into the hands of his partners-in-crime on the wrong side of town? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 15:32:16
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The Adventurers' Quarter of South(ern) Ward in the 2E City of Splendors box should help; I designed it to be fully accessible to new players and a "way-in" to understanding Waterdeep. The whole neighborhood with a good smattering of NPCs populating it is all ready for you; I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
Steven
who apologizes for the plug of his own work but it's exactly what the original poster asked for.... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 16:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
Unfortunately, it is not one of the many freebies on the Wizards downloads page, which I think draws major vacuum. However, you can get the PDF from Paizo for a mere $4. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Nov 2007 16:26:43 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 19:31:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
Unfortunately, it is not one of the many freebies on the Wizards downloads page, which I think draws major vacuum. However, you can get the PDF from Paizo for a mere $4.
Bummer, but thanks for the info, Wooly. It's got me wondering, though: How many folks actually used the miniatures-scaled (for 25mm) map of the Adventurers' Quarter in any of their games?
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 20:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Bummer, but thanks for the info, Wooly. It's got me wondering, though: How many folks actually used the miniatures-scaled (for 25mm) map of the Adventurers' Quarter in any of their games?
SES
I've never used the mini map cause I don't use mini's but I've used the info from that part of the box set more then once since it was, to me, a great area to set some scenes for a long running email game. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 22:30:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Bummer, but thanks for the info, Wooly. It's got me wondering, though: How many folks actually used the miniatures-scaled (for 25mm) map of the Adventurers' Quarter in any of their games?
I've never used the map, but I've sat for long periods just studying it. I have made heavy use of the details from that section though. Great stuff!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 20 Nov 2007 22:31:32 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 01:52:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was thinking, though...what if the supposedly trustworthy linkman was himself a thief, and led them directly into the hands of his partners-in-crime on the wrong side of town?
I've used that particular surprise once in Westgate with a group of PC's that had been to the city several times before. They knew enough about the rough parts of town they were headed for to be on their guard. It was a good time.
However, I wouldn't use the ambush on players that didn't know a particular city very well or weren't experienced with having NPC's betray them before. Causing your players to be lost, unarmed and robbed in an unknown part of an unfriendly city is a good way to end a friendship. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 02:07:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
I've used that particular surprise once in Westgate with a group of PC's that had been to the city several times before. They knew enough about the rough parts of town they were headed for to be on their guard. It was a good time.
However, I wouldn't use the ambush on players that didn't know a particular city very well or weren't experienced with having NPC's betray them before. Causing your players to be lost, unarmed and robbed in an unknown part of an unfriendly city is a good way to end a friendship.
Heh, true enough. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 04:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
Unfortunately, it is not one of the many freebies on the Wizards downloads page, which I think draws major vacuum. However, you can get the PDF from Paizo for a mere $4.
Bummer, but thanks for the info, Wooly. It's got me wondering, though: How many folks actually used the miniatures-scaled (for 25mm) map of the Adventurers' Quarter in any of their games?
SES
Never used it, but it is still in in the original box, placed protectively with the rest of my 2E stuff. I Did use the adventures quarter info many times though. The entire box set was outstanding and provided much more info, then the current version. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 04:36:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
The Adventurers' Quarter of South(ern) Ward in the 2E City of Splendors box should help; I designed it to be fully accessible to new players and a "way-in" to understanding Waterdeep. The whole neighborhood with a good smattering of NPCs populating it is all ready for you; I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
For curiosity, how did you picture Alek Lenter (if you remember) in your head ? (It was a very important NPC of my long-lasting Waterdeep campaign)
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Edited by - Skeptic on 21 Nov 2007 04:36:20 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 14:58:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
The Adventurers' Quarter of South(ern) Ward in the 2E City of Splendors box should help; I designed it to be fully accessible to new players and a "way-in" to understanding Waterdeep. The whole neighborhood with a good smattering of NPCs populating it is all ready for you; I think that COS is available among the downloads at WotC's site.
For curiosity, how did you picture Alek Lenter (if you remember) in your head ? (It was a very important NPC of my long-lasting Waterdeep campaign)
Oh gosh...I'm drawing a total blank on the character right now, and don't have time to go dig up the material to refresh the brain. Ask me this again on Tuesday when I'll next be able to visit the Keep, eh? Between Turkey Day and family stuff, the next few days are full up.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 21 Nov 2007 14:59:30 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 15:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Bummer, but thanks for the info, Wooly. It's got me wondering, though: How many folks actually used the miniatures-scaled (for 25mm) map of the Adventurers' Quarter in any of their games?
SES
I used it in all the game sessions of my Waterdeep campaign. I find it very useful.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 15:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
For curiosity, how did you picture Alek Lenter (if you remember) in your head ? (It was a very important NPC of my long-lasting Waterdeep campaign)
Oh gosh...I'm drawing a total blank on the character right now, and don't have time to go dig up the material to refresh the brain. Ask me this again on Tuesday when I'll next be able to visit the Keep, eh? Between Turkey Day and family stuff, the next few days are full up.
He's the guy that can be found at the Thirsty throat and that owns a pawn shop in the Adventurers' Quarter. He's also working with the Shadow Thieves. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 21:09:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
For curiosity, how did you picture Alek Lenter (if you remember) in your head ? (It was a very important NPC of my long-lasting Waterdeep campaign)
Oh gosh...I'm drawing a total blank on the character right now, and don't have time to go dig up the material to refresh the brain. Ask me this again on Tuesday when I'll next be able to visit the Keep, eh? Between Turkey Day and family stuff, the next few days are full up.
He's the guy that can be found at the Thirsty throat and that owns a pawn shop in the Adventurers' Quarter. He's also working with the Shadow Thieves.
Originally I had this image as follows: You know the "smart" guy who says "INCONCEIVABLE!" in THE PRINCESS BRIDE? Mix Wallace Shawn (that guy) with Steve Buscemi and you've got the image of bald-headed, skinny, dangerous if cornered, wirily-strong and agile Alek.
If you'd rather not go for something that comical (but easily underestimated) and rather have an air of menace to the guy, Jason Statham (SNATCH, ITALIAN JOB) is another actor you can use as a perfect image of Alek. Ever since I saw THE TRANSPORTER, he's been an interesting action star to watch (even if the movies are not always that sensibly written).
Come to think of it, I like the latter more than the former, which shows how one's image of a character can shift over time.
Steven
who used to model Khelben after a youngish Sean Connery but now thinks Alan Rickman with a full beard would be a vastly superior Khelben model.....if only for the better sense of humor hidden behind a poker face of condescension.... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 27 Nov 2007 21:11:20 |
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Advice for DMing Waterdeep
