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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2008 : 01:36:56
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I'd like to point out that tyr helm and torm all seem like the same note on the piano. Did we really need that many paladin gods. If I had to vote for one it would be torm because he seemed most interesting.
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 02:32:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
Sure, groovy. But god of what
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzanķ
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 02:45:02
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Some would say Lechery, but I'd say: Endurance. And Gruffly Nurturing Love.
love,
THO |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 15:36:06
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Understanding Companionship, Wild And Endless Flirtation, and Fun No-Commitments Sex In The Outdoors Or Other Odd Places.
Just being honest.
(Thanks for asking, Sage. And you?  )
love,
THO |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 16:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
Yes, as a replace of Mystra!!!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 17:20:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Understanding Companionship, Wild And Endless Flirtation, and Fun No-Commitments Sex In The Outdoors Or Other Odd Places.
Just being honest.
(Thanks for asking, Sage. And you? )
love,
THO
Heh. I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps I should open this up to the rest of the scribes of Candlekeep and ask them what they think my Divine Portfolios would be?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 18:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Heh. I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps I should open this up to the rest of the scribes of Candlekeep and ask them what they think my Divine Portfolios would be?
To-do lists (particularly ones that grow ever larger) and gremlins.
I, of course, would have Mischief, in the classic Trickster tradition. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 May 2008 18:21:38 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 01:59:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
As always, 'too many' is meaningless without clarifying for what purpose.
Agreed. When the designers say "there are too many gods", I think they mean there are too many gods for newcomers to the setting to easily "absorb" (again, I'm not saying I agree with their rationale, in any case ).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
No, I prefer him as a mortal. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And if you were to receive the gift of divine ascension, my Lady, what would you consider as your godly portfolios?
Is apotheosis really a gift, or more of a curse?
One has a lot more freedom as a mortal, for example. That's just my humble point of view, though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:18:59
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Well, I suppose it depends on what happens directly after the mortal has been raised to divinity. For example, Deep Duerra would likely consider her apotheosis as a curse.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:19:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
No, I prefer him as a mortal.
Ditto. I just can't think of Elminster as deity material. I think if a new deity of magic was to arise, it would more likely be a current or past Magister, or maybe the Srinshee. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:30:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Agreed. When the designers say "there are too many gods", I think they mean there are too many gods for newcomers to the setting to easily "absorb" (again, I'm not saying I agree with their rationale, in any case).
Which there are, as with the Realms' countries, cities, spells, monsters, characters, and everything else. The Realms is designed so that more elements of any kind exist than players, DMs or the most informed readers know of, or need/should/can know of. It's a great virtue. The minimalist approach has its advantages, but it's not the Realms. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Anyone for making Elminster a God?
No, I prefer him as a mortal.
Ditto. I just can't think of Elminster as deity material. I think if a new deity of magic was to arise, it would more likely be a current or past Magister, or maybe the Srinshee.
The Realms canon material says Elminter's a retired sage whose behind-the-scenes machinations aren't known except as rumours to sages and highly placed people, who spends much of his time researching other planes and by default isn't in if PCs try to find him.
That's how he works best. To have him ascend to divinity would be inauthentic, as it's neither how Elminster nor the Realms works.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 May 2008 02:33:19 |
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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 05:51:15
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On the comment of deity material and I realize this is inflammatory but many other gods seems to have been scraped from the bottom of the barrel of candidates(Finder Wyvernspur for example even though i like the character and all a God of Change in the Arts seems like a reach). Elminster is a cut above many of them.
I realize that in the game Elminster is character that rarely shows up to interact with the PC's. In my games I tend to avoid the dales in general just to avoid the event of the PC's wanting to knock on his tower door. However he does seem to be a very popular meddler in the books and has shepherded numerous powerful individuals and done many great things. However you are right the truth is that the average person doesn't see any reason why Elminster is any more special than any other mage. I guess it's the 4th wall that made me ask the question sometimes I think we forget that in the Forgotten realms he's just another wizard in a tower despite his fame in our own world.
Here is a question do we even need a God of Magic? I realize the weave needs tending and caring but why does it have to be a God with mortal worshippers could it not be something else that does it?
Well there several more comments on my way to becoming a masterful agent of Bane I look forward to the strife.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 07:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
On the comment of deity material and I realize this is inflammatory but many other gods seems to have been scraped from the bottom of the barrel of candidates(Finder Wyvernspur for example even though i like the character and all a God of Change in the Arts seems like a reach).
Finder's a perfect example of an obscure god that very clearly doesn't need to be known about unless the DM deliberately introduces it. The intent -- camouflaged by god lists -- is that there could be any number of such godlings, of whom few people have heard, much as the hero-/quasi-deities and demigods of Oerth. Faerūn's demigods aren't an ordered pantheon with planned, logical 'portfolios' but spontaneous, unpredictable entities who became gods through accident, chance and unique human work.
Finder exists for the purposes of Jeff and Kate's stories and new ones they inspire. He's invisible till needed, and no purpose is served by culling him.quote:
Here is a question do we even need a God of Magic? I realize the weave needs tending and caring but why does it have to be a God with mortal worshippers could it not be something else that does it?
What kind of something else do you have in mind, and what advantage would it have?quote:
Well there several more comments on my way to becoming a masterful agent of Bane I look forward to the strife.
Your plan must be very subtle, because so far those are good questions with revealing (he says) answers. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 May 2008 07:41:42 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 16:42:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Here is a question do we even need a God of Magic? I realize the weave needs tending and caring but why does it have to be a God with mortal worshippers could it not be something else that does it?
I think you could just as easily ask, "Why do there need to be any gods in the FR at all?" No setting needs to have gods, I guess, but the FR would be drastically different if the existing gods were arbitrarily weeded out, all because someone decided they just "weren't needed."
Just my opinion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 May 2008 16:46:14 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 21:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think you could just as easily ask, "Why do there need to be any gods in the FR at all?" No setting needs to have gods, I guess, but the FR would be drastically different if the existing gods were arbitrarily weeded out, all because someone decided they just "weren't needed."
Just my opinion.
I totally agree with RF. Yet another topic that WotC has not explained their reasoning to my satisfaction. I seriously wonder why none of the full-time staff spends any time here, at Candlekeep. If they really had wanted to find some ways to make the Realms better, they should have done some research here. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 05 May 2008 22:00:06 |
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Rollo Ruttikin
Acolyte
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 01:32:53
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I liked the 1st Edition FR boxed set pantheon.
Why mess with a good thing?
The whole "Time of Troubles" and the Troy Denning novels that went along with it was just crap.
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:12:35
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think you could just as easily ask, "Why do there need to be any gods in the FR at all?" No setting needs to have gods, I guess, but the FR would be drastically different if the existing gods were arbitrarily weeded out, all because someone decided they just "weren't needed."
Just my opinion.
I totally agree with RF. Yet another topic that WotC has not explained their reasoning to my satisfaction. I seriously wonder why none of the full-time staff spends any time here, at Candlekeep. If they really had wanted to find some ways to make the Realms better, they should have done some research here.
Ah but it's not about making the realms better. To be honest I think we can do it better than any paid developer. Remember they sometimes have to sell their ideas to people who know nothing about the Realms. When it all boils down WoTC is about money pure and simple so as long as you can force thousands of brand loyal consumers to buy totally new books who cares if you get rid of the more interesting Gods or muck up the plot. If the Spellplague had been a campaign I would have got up after they killed Mystra, told the DM to shove it, and have left. Yep so as we see Waukeen wins for WoTC and all the fat Sembians running WoTC will have their hands awash in coin from the poor commomfolk. Are there no Heroes to save us?
(There is your plot hook for the day. Evil Merchants began restricting a commodity that a local village needs to survive. The villagers try and pay the more expensive price for the inferior product but they just can't stomach the new goods. The village looks for adventures to save them. Secretly though the Merchants are being controlled by coven of Illithids who have polymorphed themselves to look like the most influential members of the organization. Can the heroes unmask the plot and save the commonfolk before it's too late? Find out in the new exciting adventure sutible for all levels of play. ) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 16:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
Yep so as we see Waukeen wins for WoTC and all the fat Sembians running WoTC will have their hands awash in coin from the poor commomfolk. Are there no Heroes to save us?
That also explains why they have such a focus on Shades in the 4e Realms, since "The Empire of Nethril" (formerly known as "Shade") eventually conquers Sembia, and WotC is run by Sembian merchants. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Athairgi_the_Child-Eater
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 15:48:02
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Indeed. They sure do remind me about them.
Taken from the F.R.C.S.(3rd ed.)
"Sembia is the land of wealth and the grasping drive to earn more. More vigorous and practical than ostentatious Amn, it's a place of costers and secret cabals, cults, and other dangerous dabblings of the bored or desperate. As long as other folk in Faerūn still have a few coins that could be in Sembian pockets or vaults, the folk of Sembia are not content." |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 17:54:24
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| a few hundred more gods (and godless philosophies) would be nice |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 20:55:02
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I actually like doing the research for varying story hooks and don't see any real need to pare down the myriad pantheon of the Realms. After all, there are how many different racial types of human in the Realms? I would think it logical to have at least as many different cultural pantheons, with all the minor and obscure deities, to go with them.
Just my opinion ^.^ |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 18:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Robspieree
Rquote:
Originally posted by Ranak
Loviatar - a pointless goddess, seems to exist purely as a means to fulfill a DM's leather fetish, not well integrated with Realm's mythology
Why is it that fetishes are always demonized?
Rob
Considering that the "Word of God" on Loviatar in multiple Realms products is that Loviatar is the goddess of sadists and torturers -- literally the divine patron and incarnation of the desire to kill others by slow torture -- I fail to see how one can say that this makes her 'demonized'. Most people look on slicing other people up with whips as being socially unacceptable.
I think that the whole pain as a kink/fetish in the Realms is probably overlooked more by Sharess than Loviatar. Or to put it anogther way from my POV: Sharess is a goddess for people who like some light bondage and spanking. Loviatar is a goddess for people who like strapping a screaming victim to the wall and then peeling the flesh from their bones with a scourge. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 19:44:33
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| Very good points, but there is a bondage/SM element to Loviatar's worship, too (to be fair, though, it's probably just played up over other elements of her church by fans because it's "kinky"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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QueenofShadows
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 18:48:39
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| Shar: I think there just over powering her at this point, she's getting way to much--just because. I can even tollerate Cyric, but there doing everything with Shar. Can not stand her...-bleh- |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
161 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 07:39:47
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"In our land, we are in need of many gods. I will pray to all of them for you, do not be offended!"
I guess for me that makes the best point. None the less, I feel because its a pantheon faith, some find certain gods useful, others have a diffrent opinion. Which of course gives diversity to the religious state of the Realms.
Take that guys advice, break out the highlighter and off the ones you have it out for. You are after all, G.ame O.verall D.irector |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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DorianAdricus
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 16:38:51
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I'd like to speak up as an actual FAN of Shar. Not to say that I think they aren't overplaying her hand over at WotC, but, she IS the timeless evil from before the formation of the world.
Shar is the darkness, the nameless dread that caused the fur-huddled cavemen to fear the coming of night. She is the cloak that conceals all evil deeds, the whispers in the shadows of Toril. She is both understood too well, and completely misunderstood.
Her portfolio is loss, which is interesting, in that if she ever gains anything, She is weakened, but if She loses, She is also weakened (but strangely strengthened as well). Her ultimate goal is the obliteration of all, forever, which really means, She seeks true and utter death of not just herself, but everything. If looked at properly, She is could be the Mother of All Monsters, (like the mother of the Grendel, or a Lilith type), and so fulfills a missing niche in the Realms. I've always seen her as the darkness to which even the darkest gods must pray, seeking guidance and wisdom, and solace from the pain of their existence.
That all being said, I really do think that WotC is overusing her, overplaying her hand, so to speak. She is so old, so powerful, that her direct interference in the affairs of the world should be so subtle as to be undetectable on anything less than the scale of eons. The other evil gods may be more vigorous, more active, but ultimately, all of the schemes they hatch that lead to loss, oblivion, or feed entropy ultimately empower her. (She really should be the goddess of fear, I mean really, darkness, loss, the night, FEAR!)
Anyway, that's my little Shar rant. |
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Gods that Should have died
