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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 22:13:57
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When the rumours of $E began circulating and since the release of the new Campaign Setting I've been wondering how I incorporate some of the changes into my own campaign, which is mostly based in the Underdark in Menzoberranzan and Maerimydra (ever since my PC's joined up with Irae T'Sarren things have gone rather strange).
With the publication of the Lady Penitent novels I had been wondering how to handle those changes. Now with the release of the Shattered Realms (thanks Woolly) I think I have a working solution.
I now have two Torils. One, I call Counter Toril. This was created during the time that Lolth shifted her realm from being a level in the Abyss to being a realm in its own right. The severe rips in the cosmic fabric caused by that and the subsequent machinations of Shar (detailed in Cormyr, Shadowdale and Anauroch) caused Counter Toril to form. It could be argued that with the creation of the Shadow Weave, Shar had begun the process. Counter Toril is similar to the idea of Counter Earth, which is supposed to share the same orbit as Earth but is always six months behind. That is, we can never see it as the Sun is always exactly between the two. Further evidence of the disruption caused by this change is the Spell-plague and the apparent loss of a hundred years of history by the inhabitants of Counter Toril. Nobody really knows what happened. Things went a little blurry and even well-known figures who were alive a century ago seem greatly diminished.
The upsetting of the cosmic balance caused many long planned plots to be put into action - or appeared to do so. For example, the Morndinsamman's assault on Hammergrim. Many deities have committed to Counter Toril, they continue to have a presence in Toril but are diminished in power since they believe Counter Toril to be Toril. I reflect this by deducting five divine ranks from deities who now make Counter Toril their main base of operations. Those deities that remain on Toril see an increase in their divine ranks, maximum five.
For the drow pantheon this means the following:
Intermediate Deities
Vhaeraun DR 12
Eilistraee DR 12
Kiaransalee DR 11 (since the Web enhancement of CotSQ made her DR 6.)
Lesser Deities
Lolth DR 10
Selvetarm DR 6
Demigod
Ghaunadaur DR 2
As for the rest of the deities I'd like to know what the current $E list of FR deities is. I know there is Brimstone's thread. However, before I use that to carry on my conversions I'd like to know if some gods are merely aspects of others. For example, I've heard that Moradin is now Gond. Can someone give me some more information here, please? 
Note to the Moderators: I hope this is the right place for this scroll. Please move it if it isn't.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 31 Aug 2008 16:47:11
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 00:04:24
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4e deities from the FRCG
Greater Gods (pgs 72-77) Later in the chapter, it says that there are 19 greater gods, but I only count 18:
1) Amaunator
2) Asmodeus
3) Bane
4) Chauntea
5) Corellon
6) Cyric
7) Ghaunadaur
8) Gruumsh
9) Kelemvor
10) Lolth
11) Moradin
12) Oghma
13) Selūne
14) Shar
15) Silvanus
16) Sune
17) Tempus
18) Torm
Gods
Umberlee (detailed, servitor of Silvanus; pg 78)
Auril (mentioned, servitor of Silvanus; pg 78)
Mielikki (mentioned, servitor of Silvanus; pg 78)
Waukeen (mentioned, servitor of ??; pg 76)
Tymora (mentioned, servitor of ??; pg 76)
Note: I am trying to decrypt where to find a detailed list of gods, exarchs, primordials, and archdevils, but I am not sure where to look. What made them think that it was a good idea to give incomplete lists in this chapter (5)? I am so bloody confused! |
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Edited by - Hawkins on 30 Aug 2008 00:54:24 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 07:07:01
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Thank you Hawkins.
Now as I understand it, Moradin is actually Gond pulling a fast one on the Dwarves of Counter Toril, and hasn't Gruumsh subsumed Talos's portfolio? Is there any more of this mischief going on? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 15:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Thank you Hawkins.
Now as I understand it, Moradin is actually Gond pulling a fast one on the Dwarves of Counter Toril, and hasn't Gruumsh subsumed Talos's portfolio? Is there any more of this mischief going on?
I think it's the other way, Gond was Moradin.
But I've been wrong before and I don't have the book to look it up... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 18:33:37
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Fun stuff, Kiaransalyn.
If you really want to make them distinct and different (or use more divine politics), try this on for size:
Mask and Leira were never as reduced or destroyed as they led folk to believe from the Time of Troubles onward. They simply hoodwinked the two most powerful and greedy goddesses--Lolth and Shar--and led them along to believe what they wanted. They set up the Great Sting that was the Shadow Weave. They set up the events of the Spider-Queen. And the culminations of those things led to the unleashing of power that created Counter Toril--on which Shar reigns supreme, Mystra seems dead, and Lolth is the only drow goddess. Meanwhile, back on Toril-1, Mystra still lives (as do Mask and Leira, liars supreme). How's that for a fun "working with the toys and tools already in the box" explanation to fix things you deem broken?  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 18:46:30
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I saw this last night, but was unable to post... Anyways, I love this idea. It would be great if there were two realms such as this. One using the "tree", one using the ... umm... What do you call the new cosmology, anyways?
I also like the added perk that Mr. Schend added. I've always thought that Leira didn't really pass during the ToT. I think there's some big merit here.
Thanks everyone for adding a new seed for adventure in the Realms! |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 18:53:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
How's that for a fun "working with the toys and tools already in the box" explanation to fix things you deem broken?
I like your suggestion. As some scribes may know I'm not fully in favour of the recent changes. However:
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
. . . . there are only 3 ways to handle change in a healthy manner. tactfully disagree and work towards a Positive resolution - Accept the change and commit - or Leave.
Whilst I'm having far too much fun being sarcastic and poking fun, on a more serious level I've been trying to find a way to accommodate the new setting. The above solution has 'sort of' evolved from comments made by others, Woolly for one.
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Fun stuff, Kiaransalyn.
If you really want to make them distinct and different (or use more divine politics), try this on for size:
Mask and Leira were never as reduced or destroyed as they led folk to believe from the Time of Troubles onward. They simply hoodwinked the two most powerful and greedy goddesses--Lolth and Shar--and led them along to believe what they wanted. They set up the Great Sting that was the Shadow Weave. They set up the events of the Spider-Queen. And the culminations of those things led to the unleashing of power that created Counter Toril--on which Shar reigns supreme, Mystra seems dead, and Lolth is the only drow goddess. Meanwhile, back on Toril-1, Mystra still lives (as do Mask and Leira, liars supreme)
That's a marvellous idea. Although I'd like to include Cyric as one of the hoodwinked deities. I can also see Vhaeraun and Mask working together since the two deities share some similarities.
Some more work needs to be done here (but not for the moment as I'm finding out about Gallo). Thank you for your comments, Mr Schend. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 19:07:06
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I just pretend Lady Penitent never happened, and all is right in the world. 
Faezress = Drownip  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 10:14:38
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So I've done some more work on this idea.
Drow Pantheon
Intermediate Deities
Vhaeraun DR 12 CN
Eilistraee DR 12 CG
Kiaransalee DR 11 CE/CN
Lesser Deities
Lolth DR 10 CE
Selvetarm DR 6 CN
Demigod
Ghaunadaur DR 2 CE
The alignment shifts have come about because Vhaeraun's main focus is surface drow and with the larger numbers returning to the surface his worshippers are increasingly looking to settle instead of being hunter/gatherers and/or bandits.
Kiaransalee's alignment shift is due to her exploring the undeath aspect of her alignment as being transition and change. She may in time evolve to become a deity of borders and barriers. May.
Selvetarm has freed himself from Lolth's influence and has re-established contacts with Eilistraee.
The overall alignment shift is reflected in the drow who have also shifted to CN. This may have something to do with the fading of Corellon's Gift (which I'll explain at a later point.)
Orc Pantheon
Greater Deities
Luthic DR 17 N
Intermediate Deities
Ilneval DR 14 CN
Yurtrus DR 12 CE
Gruumsh DR 11 CE
Lesser Deities
Shargaas DR 8 CE
Bahgtru DR 7 CN
With Gruumsh's involvement in Counter Toril, a three-way schism has occurred in the Orc Pantheon with surprisingly results. Luthic has emerged from the shadows to claim primacy arguing, successfully, that the strength of the orc clans rest with strong mothers giving birth to strong warriors. The shift in alignment indicates several orc clans' joint desire to settle and found kingdoms, which is shadowed in Counter Toril by Obould. Luthic is joined by her loyal son, Bahgtru and by the wily Ilneval. Although Luthic is represented in Counter Toril, it is argued that it is only one of her avatars continuing to play the downtrodden consort to Gruumsh. The deity Bahgtru is torn between obeying Gruumsh and Luthic. Grey orcs, Half orcs, some Mountain Orcs, orogs and tanarukks are the main worshippers of this trio.
Yurtrus has also risen in stature. As a deity of disease he is worshipped out of fear and appeasement. An increasing number of Mountain Orcs worship him, likening themselves to a ravening plague.
The third faction still commands respect, many Mountain Orc tribes still worship Gruumsh but his presence is rarely felt by his clerics now. Shargaas continues to ally with Gruumsh biding his time to displace him. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 31 Aug 2008 19:23:18 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 19:58:49
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The biggest change is the diminished power of Corellon Larethian who has given Rillifane Rallathil the task of being head of the pantheon whilst he concentrates his efforts in Counter Toril to rescue the elven souls who have become ensnared in that creation. Furthermore, with the emergence of Lolth as a Greater Deity in Counter Toril, he recognises that he is needed there. The elevation of Felarathael and Lashrael to demigod status reflects that Corellon still cares for the elves of Toril.
Aerdrie Faenya, Hanali Celanil and Sehanine Moonbow have lost some strength in order to allow Angharadh to serve Corellon in Counter Toril. Rillifane's rise has contributed to the rise of several associates, such as Tilvenar Firecloak and Sarula Iliene. Of interest is the growth of Araleth Letheranil, which is due to the Star Elves of Yuirwood.
There have been slight shifts in alignment for Shevarash and Fenmarel Mestarine. Shevarash bitterly opposes what he sees as a possible rapprochement between the Seldarine and Vhaeraun. He also dislikes the so-called Gift of Corellon [1].
The Seldarine
Greater Deity
Rillifane Rallathil DR 17 CG
Intermediate Deities
Sehanine Moonbow DR 12 CG
Deep Sashelas DR 11 CG
Tarsellis Meunniduin DR 11 CN
Araleth Letheranil DR 11 CG
Naralis Analor DR 12 NG
Sarula Illiene DR 11 CG
Lesser Deities
Aerdrie Faenya DR 10 CG
Hanali Celanil DR 10 CG
Kirith Sotheril DR 10 NG
Tilvenar Firecloak DR 10 LN/NG
Erevan Ilesere DR 9 CN
Labelas Enoreth DR 9 CG
Solonor Thelandira DR 9 NG
Alathrien Druanna DR 8 N/NG
Corellon Larethian DR 8 CG
Melira Taralen DR 7 CG
Mythrien Sarath DR 7 CG
Fenmarel Mestarine DR 6 N
Rellavar Danuvien DR 6 NG
Demigods
Khalreshaar DR 5 CG
Felarathael DR 3 CG
Lashrael DR 3 CG
Shevarash DR 2 N
Tethrin Veralde DR 2 NG
Leraje DR 1 N
1. For a long time, I have played Corellon as being concerned with all elves, which includes the drow. When the drow descended into the earth he gave them the gift of darkvision and other abilities that would help their survival in the hope that one day they would turn to the light. Only an enlightened few truly understand the nature of Corellon's Gift. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 21:06:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
1. For a long time, I have played Corellon as being concerned with all elves, which includes the drow. When the drow descended into the earth he gave them the gift of darkvision and other abilities that would help their survival in the hope that one day they would turn to the light. Only an enlightened few truly understand the nature of Corellon's Gift.
Whilke I like the whole counter-Toril idea, I have some difficulties with thinking that Corellon had any positive thoughts about or plans to assist the drow. It doesn't match what I've read about Corellon, especiialy in FR material. However, I'd be the first to point out that I could easily be wrong.
Is this concept of yours based on your interpretation of canon material? If so, I'd like to know what sources you think point to such a conclusion. If it's not based on canon lore, that's fine. I'd still like to know more about this Corellon's blessing and how it plays out among the other elven dieties. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 22:52:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
I have some difficulties with thinking that Corellon had any positive thoughts about or plans to assist the drow. It doesn't match what I've read about Corellon, especiialy in FR material. However, I'd be the first to point out that I could easily be wrong.
Is this concept of yours based on your interpretation of canon material? If so, I'd like to know what sources you think point to such a conclusion. If it's not based on canon lore, that's fine. I'd still like to know more about this Corellon's blessing and how it plays out among the other elven dieties.
I think it is very reasonable to say you have difficulties thinking that Corellon did something to actually assist the drow. I should definitely make clear that this idea is based on my interpretation of canon.
The sources that suggested the idea are:
Lost Empires of Faerun, page 52, quote: "The Seldarine respond...by smiting the Ilythiiri. All dark elves are transformed into drow." Page 56, quote: "Why all dark elves, and not just the Ilythiiri, were transformed into drow remains one of the enduring mysteries of the Descent." Lost Empires suggest that the ritual that transformed the Ilythiiri was conducted by High Mages with the help of the Seldarine.
The Grand History of the Realms, page 15, quote: "Corellon's magic, as directed through his priests and High Mages, transforms the dark elves, whether the corrupt Ilythiiri or others into the drow." Page 14, quote: "We leave our homeland with sorrow, knowing that we have been forsaken by the Seldarine."
The question that puzzled me was this, did Corellon, acting through his clerics and mages, give the drow spell resistance, spell-like abilities, darkvision and strong will power. It says in the 3rd Edn Campaign Setting that the increases in Intelligence and Charisma are due to controlled breeding. It says in Drow of the Underdark (page 6) that "all drow are born with" spell like abilities. Furthermore, it also says: "Drow also possess an incredibly high natural magic resistance. Newborn babies and infants have weak, fluctuating magic resistances."
Of course, it could be argued that darkvision and the other abilities evolved over time due to selective breeding and exposure to Underdark radiations. However, if that is the case how did the early drow survive given how perilous the Underdark is.
I think that something in the transformation gave some advantages to the drow to help them in their descent.
If we consider Corellon, we find ourselves viewing a chaotic good deity who is a greater deity. Who knows what random act of compassion a chaotic good deity might do. We do know that his punishment and the actions of the Seldarine did not stop the Crown Wars since the Descent of the Drow happened before the Fifth Crown War. We also know that atrocities were committed on all sides of the Crown Wars, although the Ilythiiri did seem to excel in cruelty. Another thing to consider is what greater punishment could an elf have but to have Lolth as a deity. When you read about the drow, you read about a race capable of love and fellowship but prevented from engaging in these pleasures freely due to their culture, which has been, for most drow, dictated by Lolth. She is a demoness after all. In Faiths and Pantheons, page 182, it says that to succeed at the Test of Lolth one must slay an ally. The purpose of the test, in my opinion, is to maake the one taking the test trust no-one but themselves. And they know that Lolth can betray them at a whim. From reading Demihuman Deities, it is clear that no drow loves Lolth. They fear and hate her, yet are trapped because their ancestors felt forsaken by Seldarine.
This idea of Corellon's Gift isn't based on canon lore. There isn't a quote I can find you that states the above. However, the quotes I've given you above are some of the things I read that helped this idea form. You've probably noted that I like my deities to move towards neutral alignments. This is because I like my PC's to be the one faced with questions of morality. For me, deities represent certain primal forces, powers and concepts.
For example, for me, Kiaransalee isn't a deity of undeath trying to get her worshippers to animate more corpses. She is a deity who is exploring transitions and what could be a more drastic transition than moving from life to death. Undeath is the state between these to extremes. Occupying it, allows one to observe transitions. At times, I can also see Kiaransalee as a goddess of childbirth and doors. It could be, back in the distance depths of time she had these roles.
The question is, of course, are worshippers made in the image of their god or is the god made in the image of his or her or its worshippers. In Toril, we know that many deities were mortal, but after apotheosis they come to be seen as representing certain ideals and concepts.
We know that Corellon loved Araushnee (page 29, Evermeet: Island of Elves) but she betrayed him and turned his son, Vhaeraun against him and causing him to doubt his daughter, Eilistraee. We know that High Mages and Clerics performed a ritual that caused the Descent of the Drow. As mortals did they resort to prejudice? Did they see all dark-skinned elves as evil? We know incredible rivalries existed between the elven races. We also know that some of the Gold Elves were and are prejudiced. Or did Corellon still harbour hurt over Araushnee's betrayal? Did he allow himself to be persuaded by one side and then once committed regret that some of the elves he was punishing were innocent?
I know that a lot of people like things black and white. Drow are evil, elves are good. However, I've DM-ed and ran drow games for quite a few years now. The best games came from exploring the complex situation that the drow find themselves in. I do like the fact that there are some deities that represent certain moral extremes. But if you're a farmer and your crops are dying due to a drought how do you then view Lathander? How would you subsequently view Talos after a thunderstorm broke the drought? If you're a fisherman who regularly worships Umberlee how do you view her after another successful fishing trip?
Anyway, I should stop there as I need to get to bed (it's almost midnight here). I hope that answers your question. I'll end by pointing out that these are only my ideas and hopefully they're interesting. And if they're not, feel free to dismiss them.
(Apologies for typo's but it's too late to correct them.) |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 23:19:55
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| I also want to point out that in Demihuman Deities, Corellon DOES allow dark elves as divine casters even if its just a handful of them. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 02:47:31
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| I've long been inclined to think that the drow bonuses and such were either gifts from Lolth, adaptations from constant exposure to faerzress, or both. I don't see it being a gift from anyone in the Seldarine, because it's more of a gift than what elves have. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 06:02:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've long been inclined to think that the drow bonuses and such were either gifts from Lolth, adaptations from constant exposure to faerzress, or both. I don't see it being a gift from anyone in the Seldarine, because it's more of a gift than what elves have.
I pretty much concur...
I use both - Faezress is what Lolth created, which enhances a Drow's abilites and gives them special powers. She chose this method, rather then a direct 'blessing', in order to keep a short leash on her people.
At least thats the way I always spun it - this way the Faezress acts as both a blessing and a curse; like in the 2e and earlier rules, Drow (and their items) lose power when away from the magical radiation.
Except for Drizzt, because he's just Uber-Kewl. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Sep 2008 06:02:33 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 07:03:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've long been inclined to think that the drow bonuses and such were either gifts from Lolth, adaptations from constant exposure to faerzress, or both. I don't see it being a gift from anyone in the Seldarine, because it's more of a gift than what elves have.
I guess the Golden Rule here is that we all have our own take on canon and we all have House Rules and House Lore.
As regards exposure to faerzress, that's certainly reasonable since it says in Demihuman Deities that drowic spell-like abilities fade after time spent in sunlight (unless you happen to be Drizzt). However, it could be that this is a condition imposed by the giver. The exposure explanation also suggests that the first drow were lucky enough to be exposed to this stuff and to see the value in it.
As regards gifts from Lolth, I can't see that as being her style since it seems odd that she'd give this ability to all. This seems rather egalitarian. Maybe, she only gave it to a few and their descendants killed off the rest. However, at the time of the Descent she wasn't that powerful, was she?
The abilities of a drow compared to those of other elves are much greater. However, the environment that the drow live in is much more demanding. Again, if these abilities were given it would seem they were give with a knowledge of what the drow would face. It seems strange that a lesser/intermediate goddess can give her elves greater powers then a greater god.
In the end, I like my interpretation for my own reasons, it's a subtle twist on things and gives a nice level of complexity. However, I certainly don't suggest that anyone need find how I run my games useful or interesting. Time to call an end to this thread, methinks. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 01 Sep 2008 07:09:18 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 17:55:17
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It depends on how you spin it -
Corellon and the other Seldarine could have made the Elves much more powerful, but chose not to because they wanted them to "make it on their own", thereby strengthening them as a people.
Lolth, on the other hand, would have wanted her people to be be 'better' then Corellon's, and would have done anything to accomplish that.
Suppose Lolth didn't have that kind of power... that's why she altered the Drow to be able to 'absorb' the Faezress energy to strengthen them. She couldn't do something like that on her own, but by altering her people to use an already-available power-source, she was still able to accomplish her goal.
To take this a little further, in my own interpretations (which work their way into my games), the Elves WERE much more powerful at one time (4e's Eladrin?), but they got their powers from the Feywild. Once they left, they began to lose those abilities, and with each successive generation they became 'weaker'. The Drow, being of this original Elven (Eladrin?) stock, would have had this built into their DNA as well. It may have been a simple - yet brilliant - thing for Lolth to 'tweak' the Drow to absorb the Faezress energy rather then the Fey energies like their ancestors. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Sep 2008 16:09:59 |
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Darius Talynth
Acolyte
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 03:58:20
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I like your ideas behind counter Toril. It is as plausible an option as any concept and it reminds me, rightly or wrongly, of the "days of future past" from xmen comics.
on another note, while I like the idea of the goddess Eilistraee, and I know she is very popular among many FR devotees, I was never a fan of her prominence in the realms mythos. I just don't accept that there are enough "non-evil" drow for her to develop enough power and status to rival the other drow deities, particularly Lloth, or even other elven deities. I admit to not being fully current with all of the novel regarding Lloth, Eilistraee and the other drow gods and I don't know the details of how the canon plays out in these book. I just believe that Eilistree is better represented as a guide for those drow who strive to move beyond their evil heritage but such drow should be rare lest they become common place and no longer "special". I see her as working against the machinations of her evil siblings and mother but not openly, so as to protect her followers and herself. For her to be more than a lesser deity just doesn't fit with my sense of the way things should be. In your alternate Toril, or non-spell plague toril, she would need to assume part of the role of another god - perhaps Selune? as there seems to be many synergies there. Just my thoughts. |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 03:07:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Fun stuff, Kiaransalyn.
If you really want to make them distinct and different (or use more divine politics), try this on for size:
Mask and Leira were never as reduced or destroyed as they led folk to believe from the Time of Troubles onward. They simply hoodwinked the two most powerful and greedy goddesses--Lolth and Shar--and led them along to believe what they wanted. They set up the Great Sting that was the Shadow Weave. They set up the events of the Spider-Queen. And the culminations of those things led to the unleashing of power that created Counter Toril--on which Shar reigns supreme, Mystra seems dead, and Lolth is the only drow goddess. Meanwhile, back on Toril-1, Mystra still lives (as do Mask and Leira, liars supreme). How's that for a fun "working with the toys and tools already in the box" explanation to fix things you deem broken?
*clap clap clap*
That's pretty impressive. Good use of tricky deities, and an excellent job of not shaking the Forgotten Realms to their very foundations. Leira's mastery of illusions and Mask's unmatched trickery could very easily make for the overthrow of their assailants. |
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Counter Toril & Toril
