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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 17:52:21
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I was reading up on WIki regarding Torms ressurection. Apparently AO deemed him worthy of it (and an upgade to Greater God) because of his great Sarifice during the timeo of trouble when he killed Banes Avatar. Well it seems to me that Eilistraee's sacrifice was on the same level, so why not her as well?
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Edited by - jordanz on 06 Oct 2008 21:31:53
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 17:57:21
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| Because Eilistraee didn't fit Bruce Cordell's ideas for the Drow. No other reason. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 18:05:27
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| Okay, unless you have specific, irrefutable evidence to that fact, statements like that need to be avoided -- especially when you're basically calling out one of the designers. It's fine if that's your opinion, but if it is an opinion, it needs to be stated as such. If it's not an opinion, then provide quotes and other references to show that it's a stated fact. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 20:12:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16038199&postcount=4243
Bruce Cordell is the head of the FR design team.
Which proves nothing. Being part of a team, by definition, means you are part of a group. Just because the group, as a whole, made a decision, did not mean that the every single member agreed with it. It's entirely possible that Bruce wanted to keep her around, but every other member of the team said no, so he went along with the majority.
Unless you have any further information to offer, we can not, with any firm assurance, state that it was the decision of any one person. It looks like it was his decision, and it may have indeed been his decision -- but you can't hang all of the responsibility on one person without firm proof that that one person is responsible.
And I do want to make it clear I'm not trying to defend or attack anyone, or to condone any decisions they may or may not have made (in fact, I disagree with just about every word in the post you linked to). I'm just saying that presenting something as an unequivocal fact without firm proof is not a good idea -- especially when it pertains to a group or individual and discussions that none of us were privy to. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 00:37:47
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I'd love to see Eilistraee return, but I know better.
And Wooly, while I do agree that it's wrong to point fingers at specific individuals, the whole reason for Eilistraee's death was because someone at WoTC decided she didn't belong in Realms 4e -- which is just one of the reasons why I'm not buying Realms 4e.
Rest in peace, Dancing Lady.  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 01:10:30
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| In my Realms, she never died. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 01:38:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
And Wooly, while I do agree that it's wrong to point fingers at specific individuals, the whole reason for Eilistraee's death was because someone at WoTC decided she didn't belong in Realms 4e -- which is just one of the reasons why I'm not buying Realms 4e.
I have no problem with that assertation. I just don't want a finger being pointed at anyone specific unless it can be backed up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 02:00:23
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Sigh Wooly... Le major Sigh...  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 03:43:25
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Well even SKR indicated that when working on 3.0 there was a desire to reduce the number of deities.
Eilistraee was a minor one all things considered thus not likely to be restored in near future, if ever. Now if a certain Drow ranger had converted to the Dark Maiden it might have effected 4th edtion FR plans.
All in all I consider odds low to none the Eilistraee will be saved by AO within the next two years real time, though I do not always guess correctly. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 04:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
And Wooly, while I do agree that it's wrong to point fingers at specific individuals, the whole reason for Eilistraee's death was because someone at WoTC decided she didn't belong in Realms 4e -- which is just one of the reasons why I'm not buying Realms 4e.
I have no problem with that assertation. I just don't want a finger being pointed at anyone specific unless it can be backed up.
One of the burdens of being a leader of men is that you're responsible for the results of your endeavours, good or bad.
The head of the design team is responsible for the decisions reached by that team. It makes absolutely no difference whether he made them himself or he delegated them to someone else. He's the one with desk where it says (or should say): 'The buck stops here'. He's paid more than more junior staffers precisely because of that responsibility.
That means that it's entirely fair to praise Bruce Cordell for anything that we feel was well done... or blame him for anything that we disagree with. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 08:11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
And Wooly, while I do agree that it's wrong to point fingers at specific individuals, the whole reason for Eilistraee's death was because someone at WoTC decided she didn't belong in Realms 4e -- which is just one of the reasons why I'm not buying Realms 4e.
I have no problem with that assertation. I just don't want a finger being pointed at anyone specific unless it can be backed up.
My opinion is that if he is the head of the FR design team then he gets paid to bare the responsibility for the design changes made, good or bad. It's like that in any business and that's why we have leads, so when something goes wrong we know where to place the blame. Now I do agree that Uzzy should have stated that that was his/her opinion rather than stating it as fact. But we should be able to call out Bruce for what we might feel has been poor decisions made by the design team. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 12:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
In my Realms, she never died.
The sensible way, since we are all masters of our own Realms after all. No DM ever signed a contract which forbids him to change details of a world and hopefully no one ever will.
I also get confused by Eilistraees death and something I recently reread in the novel Evermeet and it was something which Corellon Larethian said (looking at Vhaeraun, but meaning both him and Lolth I would say): "Eilistraee has chosen. Go now, and take her with you. But know that the day your hand is lifted against her will be the last of your life. This I swear by all the trees of Arvandor." (*1) when the three drow gods left the Arvandor. Since I havent read the Lady Penitent trilogy I am now wondering if the authors remembered those lines (assuming it was due to Lolths scheming that Eilistraee died, which is the big question for me now ...). So since I dont know who was responsible for that death I wonder if the authors forgot that promise OR they chose to have Corellon "forget it" for some other purpose.
IMO everyone has the right to voice an opinion and Uzzy has done that. It is quite reasonable to say that - as head of the design team - Bruce Cordell is responsible in the same way a minister is responsible for the things his ministry does. To "compromise" there could be a rule to need phrases like "IMO" or "I think" for every sentence which is an opinion, but that would be a bit over the top, since this is a forum on the internet and I would say that we are grown up enough to know that 99% of this is opinion and that facts will be quoted when they are there.
*1 Evermeet, pg. 69f. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 13:55:40
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Jeez, folks, I'm not saying people can't state an opinion. 
I'm just saying that unless you know for a fact that only one person was responsible for a decision, then don't state as fact that the one person was responsible. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 15:24:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
In my Realms, she never died.
The sensible way, since we are all masters of our own Realms after all. No DM ever signed a contract which forbids him to change details of a world and hopefully no one ever will.
Agreed.
Hey, I thought Chris Perkins said to direct any and all criticism at him. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 17:46:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Hey, I thought Chris Perkins said to direct any and all criticism at him.
I LOVE you. 
Yup... I have nothing against Mr. Cordell, aside from the fact that I don't believe his personal genre preferences belong in FR.
I reserve all my real vitriol for the real villain.... 
Anyhow, it is what it is folks, and if you want her back in your game, then do so. WotC does NOT own the books you purchased from them - once you buy the setting, it becomes YOURS, and you can do whatever you want, the official canon setting be damned.
If I wanted to play in a world that was all 'Black & White", and Drow were all evil and had only one god, I'd still be playing in Greyhawk. I loved that setting, and would still be playing it, except that my tastes became more 'refined', and I'd rather have a setting with a million shades of grey.
I never understood this vehement adherence to follow the canon Realms in your games - I'm a huge fan of the canon, but I toss it aside anytime it gets in my way. Eilistraee is a great goddess, so of course go ahead and use her; I personally miss her far more then Mystra (whom I didn't find all that interesting). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2008 17:47:51 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 18:31:09
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| Thanks for your response guys but do you feel that Eilisttraes "sacrifice" warrants a ressurection? I mean how was what Torm did any more selfless? He got the resurrection AND an upgrade to Greater God? I guess I can only fathom how an overgod like AO perceives these types of things... |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 19:08:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I LOVE you.
Likewise. 
quote:
Anyhow, it is what it is folks, and if you want her back in your game, then do so. WotC does NOT own the books you purchased from them - once you buy the setting, it becomes YOURS, and you can do whatever you want, the official canon setting be damned.
Yup, that couldn't be said too many times, IMO. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Oct 2008 19:08:36 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 19:10:27
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Remember, Ao answers to a power higher than himself... so he may have been permitted or even instructed to give benefits to Torm, but Eilistraee could be on outs with that higher power.
In the realistic sense, nothing could be more accurate. Ao is ultimately answerable to the WotC execs (who are answerable to Hasbro). Therefore, his higher power did not want Eilistraee back (because a lot of players didn't like her because so many did) and she doesn't make the list of resurrectable gods purely based on what Ao's boss thinks will be popular in the bigger picture of things. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 19:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yup... I have nothing against Mr. Cordell, aside from the fact that I don't believe his personal genre preferences belong in FR.
I reserve all my real vitriol for the real villain....
Anyhow, it is what it is folks, and if you want her back in your game, then do so. WotC does NOT own the books you purchased from them - once you buy the setting, it becomes YOURS, and you can do whatever you want, the official canon setting be damned.
If I wanted to play in a world that was all 'Black & White", and Drow were all evil and had only one god, I'd still be playing in Greyhawk. I loved that setting, and would still be playing it, except that my tastes became more 'refined', and I'd rather have a setting with a million shades of grey.
I never understood this vehement adherence to follow the canon Realms in your games - I'm a huge fan of the canon, but I toss it aside anytime it gets in my way. Eilistraee is a great goddess, so of course go ahead and use her; I personally miss her far more then Mystra (whom I didn't find all that interesting).
I agree 100%, particularly with the comment about the drow. As I've said in the "4e Realms" Wizbro feedback scroll, using different words, the process the drow were put through in 4e was simple... mashing them between large, heavy, flat surfaces to make them one-dimensional again.
With regard to Mystra, I agree with Markustay as well... which is why, instead of killing her off, I made her more interesting. In fighting off the attack by Shar and Cyric, she (with the help of her Chosen; details given in other posts) absorbs the Shadow Weave, becoming CN in alignment... and promptly promoting Halaster to the ranks of her Chosen. That's right, folks: Halaster isn't dead either in my world. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 07 Oct 2008 19:19:05 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 20:57:27
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On a sidenote ... it would serve all people, designers included, if they actually read the work of their predecessors, and thoroughly. Much of the much lamented stereotypes about e.g. Eilistraee, Ilmater, Loviatar, Auril and Beshaba would never have led to the facts staring into our faces just now. Facts often based on uninformed people lobbying loudest.
In game Eilistraee these days ... well, never say never but her story was more cast into stone than that of any other drow deity. Not that much of it was possible under the rules at the time, but that is of no concern, of course. While some other deities might get another "Servant of the Fallen" lookalike feat in 4E, the way her death was described made it plain certain that she is not meant to be revived. Then again ... there was a crescent moon next to Arvandor's sun (however likely that is to be) at the end of LP III. If people look for straws and a'.
Just in case, I will play in pre-Spellplague FR and thus all the current stuff does not concern me nor will it concern my players in the slightest. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 07 Oct 2008 20:58:44 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 22:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Thanks for your response guys but do you feel that Eilisttraes "sacrifice" warrants a ressurection? I mean how was what Torm did any more selfless? He got the resurrection AND an upgrade to Greater God? I guess I can only fathom how an overgod like AO perceives these types of things...
Sorry to have gone off from your original request. 
My opinion? Ao doesn't have a say. 
Thats right... and if we go back to old cosmology, I'll explain why.
All the multiverse (D&D settings, and presumably 3rd party/ANY fantasy setting) was inter-connected, and the Corellon of Toril was the same Corellon of Oerth. Different worlds that had the same gods didn't have different versions of them (even if their dogma/portfolios were slightly different from world to world).
Be that as it may, Spelljammer firmly established that there was an 'Elven Homeworld' somewhere in the universe. That would mean there is a world where CORELLON is supreme. It would make sense that he was the Overgod of that sphere - after all, who would be over him in an all-Elven sphere?
The same holds true for the Dwarves, and perhaps the Gnomes and Halflings as well. Maybe every race (except humans?) have a world of their own, where their pantheon reigns supreme.
In my own Cosmology (which is just an extended version of the 2e cosmology), I have a position called 'High God' that shoe-horns between Greater Power and Overgod. I used to call them "Pantheonic Leaders", but that was a mouthful. Anyhow, this allowed me to take care of some cosmological weirdness and lore consistency that didn't quite work, especially with certain retcons. In early 2e, Fate, Maztica, and Shang-Ti (The Celestial Emperor) were all Overgods right alongside AO, but that was quickly changed and Ao was once again supreme in Realmspace (after all, how can you have more then one all-powerful being?) By assigning these beings this position, I have once aagain established them as 'more then greater gods', without disturbing the status-quo. Other deities, like Zeus and Odin, would also fall under this heading.
Now, as it applies to your question: These types of gods - leaders of their respective pantheons - get to make any and all final decisions regarding the deities under them. Irregardless of how Ao feels about it. Because each of these beings is an Overgod in their own right in other spheres, the Overgod of any one particular sphere cannot make decisions regarding their pantheons - because that would effect things in spheres they have no say (power) in.
So gods like Corellon, Fate, Shag-Ti, etc... are all welcome into Realmspace by Ao, but in a subserviant fashion, but because they are still accorded a certain level of 'mutual respect', he leaves Intra-pantheonic decisions in their hands. He can overule them on certain things, but I think there is some sort of cosmic decorrum involved which leaves him hesitant to do so (and they him, if the roles were reversed).
This also means that if the Faerūnian Pantheon were introduced elsewhere (on another world), Ao would himself be in a 'subserviant' role to whomever ruled that sphere (if he wished to interlop over - the Leaders of Pantheons don't neccessarily have to). My system also assumes that every pantheon - including all the earth-human ones - have a Homeworld somewhere where they are the only game in town (except for interlopers).
Sorry that was a bit long-winded, but basically it's not Ao's call - it's Corellon's. And by the same token, just because she is dead in Realmspace doesn't mean an aspect of her isn't alive on other prime planes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2008 22:23:22 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 23:09:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In early 2e, Fate, Maztica, and Shang-Ti (The Celestial Emperor) were all Overgods right alongside AO, but that was quickly changed and Ao was once again supreme in Realmspace (after all, how can you have more then one all-powerful being?)
The simple answer to that question is that they are just aspects of Ao or different names for him/her/it. In Faerun, he is the Alpha and Omega... in Zhakara, she is Fate... in Kara-tur, he is the Celestial Emperor, etc.
That's just one interpretation, though. Nothing remotely resembling canon. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Darius Talynth
Acolyte
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 23:25:31
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Greetings All.
Hmmm well I have to admit that I am not a big Eillestraee worshipper ;-) but neither am I anti her as a concept. I haven`t read all of the various Drow novels, aside from Drizzt ones, but I have been around the realms along time.
I think Eilistraee is a good idea for a goddess - who would good drow turn to? here she is. However, it seemed like her prominence was too high above where she should be. While she would also have some non-drow worshippers, these would be in general few because she is the deity for good (and non-evil) drow. Between the number of good drow out there and those few others who come to her altar, her total number of worshippers should not be more than the evil drow deities. So her amount of divine power, and her capability to act directly against the likes of Lolth and Vhaerun should be limited. At best she should always be a minor god or even a demigod in terms of divine power. Also, her portfolio also butts into some of Selune's sphere of influence as well. I also thought she had a few too many prestige classes in her name as well. So I'm not an Eilistraee hater, I like her, but I just see her in a different way than maybe some other people do.
That said, that doesn't mean she can't continue to be a popular goddess among players and I like the idea of her. Should she be resurrected if her sacrifice warrants such? I don't see why not and you should always feel free to alter your own D&D gameworld as you see fit! As for comparing to Torm, Torm's situation was different. He was rendered "mortal" by Ao, gave his life to stop Bane. Ao singled out the paladin god saying that he "proved" himself and restored him to life as a lesser or intermediate god. Torm only becomes a greater god in 4E realms with the demise of Tyr. Torm absorbs Tyr's power.
As for this idea of there being too many deities in the realms, what is the problem? Ultimately deities are fluff, but they add good and varied color to a gameworld. The many different deities of the Realms reflects the various cultures and ideologies that exist in that world. In some cultures every valley or river had its own "god" or "spirit". Why is this a problem in the realms? I might agree that some gods are redundant but a certain "number" is no problem in my view. And for nwe players muddling their way through the huge amount of deities - let them. I'm sure they'd figure out soemthing that works for them.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 00:53:11
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Agreed, Darius. I think she probably had too much power relative to her worshipper population, but really what drives a god's strength in published material is its RW fan base. In fact, I listed her as a lesser power in my campaigns. The irony about Eilistraee is, her popularity among the RW fan base was driven by the popularity of good drow, which in turn was driven by the popularity of a certain particular good drow... who wasn't even a worshipper of Eilistraee, and as such is still a drow after all the Eilistraee-worshippers are redeemed in more pointless 4E retconning.
And re: too many deities: I think you answered your own question there. The problem is, deities *are* "fluff" (although I dislike the term), and as such, it means there are too many of them for Wizbro's liking, and there would be even if the Realms pantheon was the size of Greyhawk's, methinks. Excising "fluff" and making the world generic (at least in terms of Eberron) was the entire point of 4E Realms.
And that's as much as I'm saying about that. Search for my other posts if you want more 4E Realms ranting. I've said it all before somewhere else on these boards, I'm sure. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 08 Oct 2008 00:56:32 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 03:37:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Jeez, folks, I'm not saying people can't state an opinion.
I'm just saying that unless you know for a fact that only one person was responsible for a decision, then don't state as fact that the one person was responsible.
Sorry bout that Wooly. I just wanted to add my 2 cents on the designer bashing topic which continues to pop up in posts. |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 13:51:23
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Yeah, I can understand why they would have wanted to give Eilistraee the axe. PCs just don't react the same way to drow as they used to. Good drow becoming more common has definitely reduced that 'It's a drow! KILL IT!' reaction amongst PCs that seemed so in tune with the fiction.
I would imagine that renegage monster gods arise from time to time in Faerun, and their arcs are similar to Eilistraee's. Godlings and ascended demigods could fill roles like that, especially in cases when a tribe has been forced to work together with good-aligned races. A small orc tribe is isolated from their horde and forced to work with a human kingdom in order to survive. Some orcish servitor godling sees the opportunity to advance himself and appears to the tribe, granting spells in exchange for worship. The godling operates in secrecy as much as possible, and then Gruumsh finds out, hunts him down and makes his skull into a spitoon. The loss of divine patronage is devastating for the tribe, and most of them either die of whatever means Gruumsh uses to take revenge on them, or turn back to the old ways. |
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Lashaeral
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 19:05:24
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Not sure if PC's acting towards drow issuch a bad thing....
the race being redeemed en masse, mayyesremove the drow as credible villains... but it also shows that change for the better is possible.
I KNOW I KNOW the new "dark elves" might also be interpreted the same way... but I have a hardtimenot having contemptfor them on basis oftheirapperance... its NOT that of the presundering dark elves described in cormanthor, i'll say that much.
Personally, I'd have MUCH Preferred to see lloths heead severed with the crescend blade,then Hallistra return to the dance... then Eilistraee rejoin the seldarine.
For what itsworth...2nd edition Faithsand avatars, ALSO says Ao can ressurect a dead god.
but for this to happen they must be prayed to in an elaborate ritual... And as the two Solars say
"Eilistraee is no longer needed"
Even though she EXISTED for over Millenia BEFORE the the sundering.
But look... thisis 4thedition...
NOTHING UPON NOTHING from prior editions is Sacred.
Ascendency of the last said that Sheverish seeks the extermination of all drow EXPLICITLY including eilistraee's worshipers.
Never mind this "Faerzerass" are a product of high magic BS...
WHY in the name of all the gods, would thehigh mages EMPOWER their enemys... even if that power could only be used underground.
And just learned that the 3 elven goddesses who created Angharaddhe turned out to be apsects of 3 realms goddesses.
I apolagize for being hostile... and for practicing threadomancy...
Just pointing out... that I, being more focused on novels, then games, would have enjoyed seeing lloth get the axe. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 22:22:42
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quote:
In my Realms, she never died.
In my realms, she never existed. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 02:01:25
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and who said she was dead.Eilistraee just gave up her divinity and is now am arch fey.
I hate this thread.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 24 Apr 2011 02:07:57 |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 05:55:41
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Bring her back?
That would be to much like doing right.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Any chance Ao resurrects Eilistraee?
