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Wenin
Senior Scribe
586 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 21:57:48
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Since my abandonment of the WotC boards, I'm a bit confused as to where to ask rule questions. =) It isn't about the realms. Anyway, I'd like your feedback. =)
Contingency:
quote:
The conditions needed to bring the spell
into effect must be clear, although they
can be general.
Can the caster have the condition be a simple word?
Whenever I speak "I wish I could fly" the contingency goes off, casting fly upon the caster.
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 22:09:04
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| I'm pretty sure that is a correct contingency trigger. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 22:26:29
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I'll echo the agreement that you should be able to do it in that way. Though, I should also add that a single special word can also be used that has no relation to the contingent spell at all. For example with your fly spell: Poodoo.
However, I would be careful of your contingency. If you are knocked silly and thrown from a cliff, your wits may not recover before hitting bottom! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4705 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 22:47:48
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3.5
quote:
You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate
It would appear you might be stretching the rules by saying a few words equal a condition effecting a character. Also using a common phase like "I wish I could fly" if your DM considers that a condition of your character might be triggered during a conversation when the character really did not want or need to fly.
Condition tends to mean a change to the character, things like falling, low hit points (though a character does not know such exists, the in character wording would be near death with player setting hit points reduced to as a number or reduced to 10 percent of my full health), hit sucessfully by a special attack (level drain, poison, acid, etc.) or even as simple as lack of food or water for a full or part day.
Contingency does not appear to be designed as a command word triggered spell. In my opinion speaking a word or a few words are not a condition effecting the character and I would not allow it in my games.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
586 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 22:56:49
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I'm actually the GM, and am purely working this out for myself. So it isn't a player trying to get over on me, nor am I trying to get over on a GM.
I've read the spell a few times, and while it states "condition" it never states "condition effecting a character".
Condition is a very subjective term. Condition could be "When the moon is full".
Here is another use of the word Condition within the PHB.
quote:
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move
action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and
the conditions under which you will take it.
It is obvious here that the conditions that need to be met do not involve something that even affects you, only something that you could witness.
I think that would be the line. The condition must be something the character could observe. Therefore you couldn't make a condition of "when someone is invisible and within 10 ft of me" triggering a See Invisiblity.
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4705 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 23:29:01
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Well for 3.5 I am looking at the SRD, which of course is bare bones as to descriptions.
I also looked at 2nd Edition PHB which is far more verbose data for me to consider (1st Edition did not have the spell).
The examples offered for the spell appear to be condition effecting the character.
The first example as trigger offered was submersed in water, which trigers airry water.
The second example offered is falling more the 2 fit to trigger feather fall.
It would strike me that if the intent of the spell was to allow a few words spoken to be a condition that triggers the associated spell, I would expect to see that listed as an option.
As by your ready an action until a condition occurs, indeed that is broader then a spell cast on the PC. A fighter can ready to set pick if the troll decides to charge.
The mage can ready to dispell a spell cast. Any character can ready to strike if an encounter with others turn out to be hostile.
And actually if the PC sees an action, the PC is effected by the action by what they see.
As for being attacked by invisible creature, there is no way any character can ready against something they can not see. Ready an action is based on what is seen (or at least heard).
The conditions do not appear to have the same meanings as one is basic combat (actually waiting to see if another will cause combat) and the other condition of magic of having something effect the held spell (I view it as something like a portal, if portal not touched nothing happens). This is why I believe you are taking a too wide interpretation of what the spell was designed to do.
As it is your game, clearly you can disagree with me. Your game your rules. Right now you have two opinions that support your idea and one opposed, at least until I send post (some others users might have commented while I was writing). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 23:49:26
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My premise for saying words are fine is the fact that I have used it this way since reading of Elminster's ability to whisk himself to his Safehold by utterance of a single word. Now, I know this is a different spell, but I see no harm in it.
If you want to go strictly by the rules; then I would have to agree with Kentinal. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 01:15:30
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Kentinal is zeroing in on the wrong word. The caster must dictate the "condition" upon which a spell comes into effect. This could be anything from "when the moon is in the 7th house" to "when I light my pipe" or "I become paralyzed (as per the condition)".
RAW
Edit: Per the original posters question, yes. I would dictate the following condition, "When I say "FLY!", the fly spell come into effect" |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Edited by - Brace Cormaeril on 28 Aug 2010 01:18:55 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 07:01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
My premise for saying words are fine is the fact that I have used it this way since reading of Elminster's ability to whisk himself to his Safehold by utterance of a single word. Now, I know this is a different spell, but I see no harm in it.
If you want to go strictly by the rules; then I would have to agree with Kentinal.
I'm inclined to go with the "phrases are OK" line of reasoning, mostly, like Dalor Darden, on the basis of the description of the 2nd Ed Elminster's Evasion in FR7-Hall of Heroes, which states that it is basically an improved contingency spell, in that it allows six conditions. Elminster uses five: "Elminster#146;s version uses only five conditions: death, loss of control over his mental faculties, loss of control over his physical body, destruction of both upper limbs or equal physical damage, and uttering the command word 'thaele'."
For all it's worth - that spell description restricts the conditions to "six simple clauses". Putting my lawyer hat on, I'd say that "condition" in the spell descriptions does not refer to "physical condition" or similar, pur perhaps to "condition" in the legal contractual sense, as in "these are my conditions". Then a phrase would be quite appropriate.#148; |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
586 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 13:59:26
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Thauramarth,
Is #146 adn #148 referencing an article, magazine, or something? |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
586 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 15:37:50
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Ok, I went out and searched for other threads and am now weary of my own thread. I had no idea I opened a potentially huge can of worms.
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37010 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 16:10:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Thauramarth,
Is #146 adn #148 referencing an article, magazine, or something?
It's text characters not translating properly, for some reason.
Elminster's Evasion is described in several places, though, including the old Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37010 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 16:13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Ok, I went out and searched for other threads and am now weary of my own thread. I had no idea I opened a potentially huge can of worms.
Discussions can be very organic, going in directions unforeseen by any.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Topic |
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Contingency Spell
