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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:08:02
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quote:
Laerriganquote:
Arik
Vampirism is evil, it is spiritually poisonous
 (lol)
Aw, sorry Laerrigan. I tend to shift my writing into adjectives which express the viewpoint of those I write about, plus English is not my native language (only my most recent one) so the colour of my wording draws from a limited vocabulary palette. My quote was intended to express what I perceive to be the mindset of celestial beings in regards to vampirism. Your background provides different insight, since the origins of your vampirism is, uh, not celestial.
For you I offer this correction:quote:
What Arik really meant to say
Vampirism is incompatible with celestial nature, for them it is spiritually poisonous.
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 19:10:22 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:13:45
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Hawkins — I've been looking for that pyramid forever (lol, to answer a question of alu-fiends and cambions becoming vampires), thanx man!
[Edit: ... and  @ Sage, ye may remove this query from yer infamous (and infinite) To-Do List.] |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 19:15:25 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:26:54
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Celestial blood might be a prized opiate for vamps, lol. There are stories about vampires (and even aliens, lol) feeding upon human blood (or brain juice) after pumping human victims full of liquors or drugs which cannot be metabolized directly, at least not in "pure" form.
But how does this relate to vamps attempting to feed upon fiends and other planars/outsiders?
I've always thought that the blood itself is only a small part of vampire sustenance (since vamps might be fully healed by feeding upon a single small creature, or might feed upon entire neighbourhoods without being sated). I suspect that vamps must draw life force, vitality, essence, psychic or spiritual energy, whatever ... the blood is more of a symbolic vehicle than a source of raw nutrition. This is why I could never abide with modern media showing vamps poking straws into a bottle of freshly chilled (or microwaved) blood stolen from the nearby hospital. I feel they must draw it from a living creature with a beating heart.
So, to answer the OP again: vampires and undead are fully immune to vampirism, sort of like any other disease carrier. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 19:31:23 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:31:47
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Thanks, Arik---now I feel justified in my toxic diseased state   And I wouldn't have guessed about English, honestly.
Arik & Wooly---I don't personally see why celestial blood would be so full of vitality, unless one could say the same about equally powerful (full of life-force) fiends. Vampires don't have an evil subtype or anything to stand in inherent diametric opposition to celestials, and good =/= positive energy, after all. I don't think a vampire biting a lumi would work out well, though. Maybe that's why lumi have no neck, as a discouragement sort of like a poison dart frog's coloration... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 01 Apr 2011 19:34:58 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:35:36
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| Conversely, though, Demogorgon has two necks. Tiamat has five. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 19:36:05 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:36:49
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Even with the pyramid, still not impossible, though.
If something receives two templates simultaneously you could get some weirdness.
Personally, for vampirism, I would say most evil beings (like fiends) can just take a Feat and become vampiric (although not undead). The ability to drain energy from a victim just sounds too... demonic... to ignore. It could either be the 'life (soul) energy' variety, or the more primal blood-draining variety, but I can definitely see allowing special fiends to be able to regain HP by drinking the blood of their victims. Once again, NOT undead (their type is unaffected - this just becomes another supernatural ability in their repertoire). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Apr 2011 19:37:22 |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:37:25
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| in my games, "Vampires are repelled by strongly presented Holy Symbols" is interpreted as "Vampires are essentially repelled by any Divine Focus." |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 20:50:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Laerrigan
Thanks, Arik---now I feel justified in my toxic diseased state And I wouldn't have guessed about English, honestly.
Arik & Wooly---I don't personally see why celestial blood would be so full of vitality, unless one could say the same about equally powerful (full of life-force) fiends. Vampires don't have an evil subtype or anything to stand in inherent diametric opposition to celestials, and good =/= positive energy, after all. I don't think a vampire biting a lumi would work out well, though. Maybe that's why lumi have no neck, as a discouragement sort of like a poison dart frog's coloration...
Works for me. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 20:51:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
in my games, "Vampires are repelled by strongly presented Holy Symbols" is interpreted as "Vampires are essentially repelled by any Divine Focus."
That's similar to how it is in the Dresden Files. It's not the object, it's the faith it represents... |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 21:07:38
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This was an excellent response Arik, I've added some thoughts...
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I personally suspect that vampiric celestials aren't impossible, but if any do exist they'd be impossibly rare. Fiends regularly traffic with evil, undead, vampires, and blood; celestials do not. Aberrations (like vampirism) among fiends grant extra powers which can and will consequently be used to assert dominance and survival (with the added bonus of causing death, fear, and suffering). Similar aberrations among celestials would be seen as unholy/evil taint which must be immediately destroyed (or at best, cast down into the hells), assuming it's at all compatible with holy celestial essence and doesn't just poison, corrupt, and destroy them outright. Let's face it: a celestial entity who needs to drink the blood/vitality/essence of living creatures (even other celestials) is just not a realistically sustainable character concept; it might be argued that other celestials constantly sacrifice themselves to sustain a holy vampiric champion among their kind, but that approach is not tenable because celestials (by their very nature) are unwilling to measure and weigh the value of lives against each other, they would certainly never allow themselves to force others to make such a decision/sacrifice for them. This goes beyond emo shame, guilt, and remorse: celestials are absolutely unwilling to compromise with evil in any form; they are as blinded by their good as fiends are by their evil.
I think we may have the raw material for an entirely new type of creature... The circumstances for the creation of such a being (vampiric celestial) must(as you already stated) be exceedingly rare.
For example, a celestial that is on it's way to being fallen - but not quite- may somehow be vulnerable to the life drain of an Arch Vampire(standard type wont do) and can be turned if it is on an abysmal plane during the attack...
The temperament of such a being could be evil or good. Perhaps they can heal others by drinking their blood ...many possibilities here.
quote:
Tieflings and aasimar are diluted by human blood (and slippery human morality), so they might become vampiric. I'd be inclined to think that vampirism is toxic to aasimar and would diminish their vitality, they would probably mope off to some unpopulated isolation to die of starvation before allowing themselves to become irretrievably tainted with blood. Vampirism is evil, it is spiritually poisonous even when selectively feeding only upon evil victims. I'd say a vampiric aasimar would either die or become a standard (human) vampire, aasimar traits would be submerged and lost and serve no purpose beyond tragic background. When killed (that is, laid to rest), such a character's eternal soul would likely be unfit to return to the upper planes.
But is vampirism always evil? Perhaps this new type of creature could heal (or harm) by taking blood and conversely only drain evil beings.... Also, perhaps the hunger would be somewhat mitigated(or changed) by it's celestial blood, thus giving this creature more free will.
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Edited by - jordanz on 01 Apr 2011 21:15:18 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 22:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
But is vampirism always evil? Perhaps this new type of creature could heal (or harm) by taking blood and conversely only drain evil beings.... Also, perhaps the hunger would be somewhat mitigated(or changed) by it's celestial blood, thus giving this creature more free will.
Eh...By canon, yes, vampirism is always evil ("always" meaning 99.99% of the time, according to canon). But it's one of those "whatever you like in your game" things. Whatever makes sense to the DM/players and sounds enjoyable. Personally, I'll go on and on, if I allow myself, about how negative energy is not inherently evil and neither is predation, and how consuming part of a living creature that can regenerate the loss without taking great harm isn't inherently evil (good people in FR do it to plants all the time, and plants can even talk to each other), especially if said creature is willing and doesn't even experience much if any pain, and how a vampire doesn't have to kill in order to feed while a living creature does if it wants meat, and how weakening/killing someone by blood drain is no worse than weakening/killing them any other way (so long as you steer clear of the idea of destroying their soul in that way, whether conceptually as DM or practically as player in not completely draining them), but I think simply mentioning those points may be plenty for this particular scroll  .
The free will issue largely depends on how one handles it in one's game. Is a vampire who isn't under the command of an evil master free to choose how and when he gets his needed sustenance, or is he like a man possessed by an evil spirit (even though negative energy-- ah, you get the idea)? Canon seems to favor the latter, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, it has more classic folkloric feel and teenish angst, but I've found ways to maintain those aspects without having a vampire character constantly going berserk at the slightest sight/smell of blood and (un)living in personal anguish over it all. That's simply the most common way for most of the poor suckers (no pun intended) that get turned, because of their circumstances compounding their new (un)natural drives.
Anyhoo, I'll shut up for the moment....I just like picking at the logic and exploring my PC and NPCs, lol. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 01 Apr 2011 22:28:30 |
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Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 22:49:54
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I must admit this thread isn't what I expected it was going to be. I thank you all for not making this as bad as it could have gone.
My thoughts, and how I always have ran Vampirism, is that in order to become a vampire one must undertake a ritualistic "bond" so to speak. Usually, by drink the blood of the that has bitten them (or drained them via whatever means they need to be nourished. That is how I keep the template rather rare and only use vampire spawns most of the time.
It is short of in line how Ravenloft and other lore upon Vampires favored in this instance. I for one, though, don't usually have vampires be standard templates all the time. If I make a vampire Npc it is going to have abilities differ from the norm on something. That way my PCs don't think they can just waltz right up to one and stab them in the heart with just any wooden stake.
For example; say you have a human from Chult who is a vampire. Not any piece of wood made into a stake, but a specific one from the Chultan jungle would be needed to stake it through the heart. That could be an adventure upon itself to acquire depending upon how far one is from Chult and what type of locale you are in. Not every back-water town has traders moving through with rare commodities from far flung places of Faerun at your convenience.
Alright, back more on topic, I always have been loathing making already super powerful beings even more powerful with templates like a vampire. For my interpretation of the template, based upon the flavor text, is that when you become a vampire you are essentially becoming demonic. Therefore, I would say all demons and devils are immune and the same with "pure" and "half" celestial beings.
Tieflings and Aasamars I wouldn't necessarily say are immune outright. In the description text it says they are native outsiders to Toril, but they are far more nearer to humaniods than they are to being an outsider. Tieflings, if you have the Races of Faerun can have fangs to show their demonic nature. For them I could see no problem having them add the vampire template on. It would just be them tapping into a stronger demonic presence through the curse.
As for Aasamars? That is a bit more tricky and I think would be exceptionally rare. It is noted that they don't have to be "good" characters like their more powerful template cousins the Half-Celestial. I would think it would be a freak occurrence an would require a lot of thought upon the DM on how s/he is going to handle it. In essence, you are making a celestial demon. That would be a HUGE deal in the cosmos.
Yeah, sure, dragon vampire, big whoop. They are essentially magical creatures with a lot of power on their native plane of existence. A celestial demon on the other hand would be a slap in the face of the Divine - both Holy and Unholy.
I would think I would have to be in agreement in saying that it would have to be a very powerful vampire lord (if you are using the Ravenloft age table I'd say no less than a Patriarch) could attempt changing one into an actual vampire. Even then I would think it would probably kill - or nearly kill, the vampire trying the conversion. That is to say if you are trying to make an Aasamar into a "true" vampire.
If not, I don't see why it they couldn't rarely show up as vampire spawn. A vampire spawn is like a sentient version of a zombie that just feeds upon blood, and has no real will of its own. It would be a big deal still, but hardly as much if a true vampire.
As for vampires wishing to drink their blood? I could see it. Their very essence is as near as a vampire will ever get to actually drinking Divine blood. I would have to say though, that vampires would shun trying to drink their blood for that purpose.
Think of it this way; say you had the best meal ever in your life. Okay, now try to go back to eating fast food after that, or any other fine meal. Now factor in eating this best meal you ever had with an endless craving for it. One you cannot easily suppress, nor would you want to if evil, and having that one great meal is incredibly rare already. You couldn't eat enough other regular meals in order to satisfy your cravings, which would in essence drive you stark, raving mad! (Sorry couldn't resist the cliche - I tried! Honest!)
That being said, I think if a vampire drank from an Aasamar it would never be able to truly feel nourished again upon the blood of normal humanoids, or to be a real winner would have to find some way to be as awesome as Charlie Sheen with their rehab.
Joking aside, that would be my recommendation on how to handle the celestial blood drinking bit. Vampire would probably love to drink it, but it would drive him bonkers afterward.
(Note: Apologies for the long post. I got on a roll and just couldn't stop typing.) |
Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
Edited by - Abenabin Gimblescrew on 01 Apr 2011 22:53:05 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 22:50:33
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Yes, taking the life-blood of another being - EVEN an evil being - is an act of evil.
ALL life is sacred to the 'forces of good' (although that could be interpreted to mean "all mortal life", since they should have no qualms about destroying their fellow outsiders).
In the Showtime series Dexter, the main character is a serial killer who only kills 'bad guys'. He is NOT a hero - he is, in fact, a 'bad guy' (who happened to find a positive way to channel his 'inner evil').
Pure (holy)'sacrifice' can only be made by a willing participant, NOT the recipient of the sacrifice, who is guilty of whatever befell the sacrificed being, if they knew in-advance what the person was attempting (so taking blood from 'volunteers' is still a no-no).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
in my games, "Vampires are repelled by strongly presented Holy Symbols" is interpreted as "Vampires are essentially repelled by any Divine Focus."
That's similar to how it is in the Dresden Files. It's not the object, it's the faith it represents...
That's also how it worked in Fright Night - Roddy McDowall's 'Vampire Hunter' character (Peter Vincent) could not effectively wield the cross, because he did not believe.
Ed, BTW, disagrees.... read pg.86 of Lords of Darkness - so long as a 'Holy Symbol' is consecrated, it does damage. Its not perfectly clear, in that bit at the end, if a non-consecrated holy symbol would work to make a vampire recoil (there are special rules in regards to vampires). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 23:46:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes, taking the life-blood of another being - EVEN an evil being - is an act of evil.
ALL life is sacred to the 'forces of good' (although that could be interpreted to mean "all mortal life", since they should have no qualms about destroying their fellow outsiders).
I'd have to disagree based entirely on the logic I've seen in the setting (admitting outright that I've seen nowhere near as much of it as you, lol). Let me state at the outset that I'm not wanting to get into RW concepts of morality or justice, here, only delving into in-game consistency, partially because it all helps my conceptualizing for my writing. Obviously, good characters can kill sentient beings under "proper" circumstances without it being considered evil, and killing a non-sentient creature for anything but sport or spite isn't generally considered evil (unless you ask a druid), thus taking a creature's life(blood) is not always evil. Also, plants are killed all the time without moral consequence for most, and they have the ability to speak to each other and to a humanoid who uses a spell for crossing the communication gap. A vampire has the technical ability to get needed sustenance without killing anything (whether or not a given individual would be inclined toward that restraint is another matter). And if you're going to kill someone anyway because of what they're doing (such as attacking you or a helpless innocent), what's wrong with getting a snack in the process? (egad, please don't judge my likely RW views and practices by my game-related stuff...lol) Seriously, I'm curious to know how those points are dealt with in the logic of the setting, or if it's even bothered with.
I also still maintain the notion that there's no reason a vampire should find a celestial's blood more vibrant than a fiend's blood---good and evil are simply opposite sides of a coin that doesn't have a side for negative energy. Sweet and spicy on different nights? Unless one figures that negative energy would for some unknown reason be more drawn to destroying/absorbing good than evil. Or if perhaps an EVIL vampire loves to destroy goodness on account of being evil and all. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 00:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
It is short of in line how Ravenloft and other lore upon Vampires favored in this instance. I for one, though, don't usually have vampires be standard templates all the time. If I make a vampire Npc it is going to have abilities differ from the norm on something. That way my PCs don't think they can just waltz right up to one and stab them in the heart with just any wooden stake.
For example; say you have a human from Chult who is a vampire. Not any piece of wood made into a stake, but a specific one from the Chultan jungle would be needed to stake it through the heart. That could be an adventure upon itself to acquire depending upon how far one is from Chult and what type of locale you are in. Not every back-water town has traders moving through with rare commodities from far flung places of Faerun at your convenience.
Vegan vampires must be killed with a steak thru the heart. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 00:34:56
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....Oh jeez.  |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
There's some merit to celestials and aasimars being unwholesome or toxic to vamps. But it might be said such blood is so full of vitality that vamps would prefer it above all others.
It could be that the blood is too full of vitality -- so much so that it would be painful and or burn out the vampire.
I like this idea. But I also like the idea of a vampiric Celestial.
Perhaps only well-aged and/or extremely powerful vampires of ancient legend [maybe those who have made a pact with a Pit Fiend or Tanar'ri Lord perhaps, for the power to corrupt a Celestial?] could potentially bring their curse to a Celestial Lord? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
[Edit: ... and @ Sage, ye may remove this query from yer infamous (and infinite) To-Do List.]
But that means I'll have to replace it with something? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
in my games, "Vampires are repelled by strongly presented Holy Symbols" is interpreted as "Vampires are essentially repelled by any Divine Focus."
That's similar to how it is in the Dresden Files. It's not the object, it's the faith it represents...
I've always liked my conception that the focus itself is ultimately irrelevant. A truly devout religious being can turn a vampire simply by imbuing holy power into her palm and warding the vampire away with that, instead. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:52:50
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I would say that (like in Van Richten's Guide to Vampires) that those that are so old that sunlight no longer hurts them could manage quite a bit against a Celestial...though I think I would have to fall short of saying they could turn them into a vampire.
It wouldn't make sense that a heavinly being could be affected by what is a mortal curse. Just my take... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:55:07
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| The holy symbol in itself is (usually) inert and harmless to undead creatures, it is the faith behind it which they shun - I think this has been categorically stated in the rules from 2E onwards. Personally, I'd rather have the symbol engraved and plated upon my shield so I could bash the hell out of 'em (and be protected by a shield, lol) instead of just brandishing a glowy little handheld trinket. Some gods have holy symbols which can be made from useful heavy metal items like gauntlets, swords, axes, hammers, anvils, and anchors. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 02:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would say that (like in Van Richten's Guide to Vampires) that those that are so old that sunlight no longer hurts them could manage quite a bit against a Celestial...though I think I would have to fall short of saying they could turn them into a vampire.
It wouldn't make sense that a heavinly being could be affected by what is a mortal curse. Just my take...
I don't think I'd take it as far as actually cursing the Celestial with vampirism, but I think that the overall power and strength of an ancient vampire lord could potentially bring a Celestial to the brink -- especially if said Celestial was already weakened by internal conflict. Perhaps a combination of Pit Fiend and Vampire Lord aspire to bring down a Celestial? I doubt even a Celestial could long maintain itself against both the moral/spiritual and physical corruption of those two nasties conspiring together against him/her. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 02:33:18
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Bloodfiend is basically pit fiend plus vampire template.
I'm curious: why is vampirism often referred to as a curse? Vampyres apparently evolved naturally, why is an undead version of essentially the same sanguinivore assumed to suffer a curse? I'm aware of the Ravenloft/Strahd vampire "creation myth" ... are any other legends about vampire origins told in D&D? Aside from Kanchelsis/Mastraacht (whom I've learned is the ruler of the 487th layer of the Abyss) are there any vampire deities and powers? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Apr 2011 02:34:07 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 03:43:37
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I just have a hard time with the trend in literature of the "corruption of goodness" I guess.
Why the heck do good things always have to be corrupted...why the heck can't evil things be corrupted by good things... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:02:18
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| YES. I've found that "inversion" intriguing in reading, writing, and gaming, when it's cropped up. Which hasn't been often enough in my experience. On that note, I've long wondered why there aren't templated creatures powered by positive energy, sort of an inversion of the entire undead type. A single one of those could be a major asset to an antagonist, as it would be inherently driven to heal and invigorate and to animate things, and would be recharged by doing so. Your enemy now has essentially unlimited healing. And too much positive energy will kill someone as surely as too much negative energy, if it comes down to it. Just seems like there's potential in there. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:19:06
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Uh, simple answer, Dalor:
... And then spake Asmodeus unto his failed minion, saying: "Yog-Tsago-Kang, Whiplord of the Thirteen Burning Pits, Keeper of the Poisoned Flame, Butcher of the Billibongians ... I call ye to look upon me and listen to mine words! Thou hath shown kindness and caring of the most unfit manner, thou hast undefiled mine realm with thine unfoul blessings of heartfelt goodwill and friendship. I cast ye out, ye are banished, exiled, forbidden! Go forth from this place and endure eternity under the radiant skies of the heavens where such as thou belongest, practice thine misguided compassions in the company of angels and song, begone from my sight! Oh, save ye first vs death magic, petrification, poison, imprisonment, and disintegration."
... and then the poor fiend needs to survive the good guys. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Apr 2011 04:22:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:25:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm curious: why is vampirism often referred to as a curse?
I think a great deal of historical/religious fiction tends to perpetuate this conception, to some degree. Obviously, D&D and other RPGs often employ alternate creation myths for vampires, which can range from the curse, like Strahd's pact with "Death" in RAVENLOFT, to the "cyber" version, like 'chipped vampires' from Hellsing [according to the official d20 conversion], which are essentially artificial vampires thanks to the implantation of the specialised "Freak" chip.
quote:
Aside from Kanchelsis/Mastraacht (whom I've learned is the ruler of the 487th layer of the Abyss) are there any vampire deities and powers?
Heh. It's funny, but I've often thought about splitting the Kanchelsis/Mastraacht combination to craft two different vampire deities along the lines of his duel aspects -- Kanchelsis being the Rake -- a cultured and subdued vampire deity, while Mastraacht is the Beast, a bestial vampire deity who exists solely to indulge in his divine blood lust.
The division may have come about, simply, because a singular world fell completely to a massive vampire invasion, which resulted in a significant increase in the worship of Kanchelsis/Mastraacht. The majority of these invading vampires, however, where savage and bestial, and this increase in worship eventually allowed Mastraacht to fully separate himself from Kanchelsis and serve as an independent deity for these vampires.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:54:36
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Vampires (or creatures similar to them) have existed in folklore since ancient times. The dead are hungry, the dead must be appeased, demons and the dead walk the land and somehow feed upon the vital essence of the living, they start with the dark side of human nature (since they were once human) and become supernatural predators. The word vampire seems to have originated in Slavic cultures* sometime in the early 18th century. Vampires were first described by Bram Stoker as hideous creatures (similar to what we call nosferatu), they quickly evolved on screen into attractive/seductive noblemen, eventually became adorned with fangs, hypnotic powers, shapeshifting mist, fear of holy symbols, etc. Our current conception (largely spurred by Anne Rice, Buffy, and Ravenloft) has reinvented vamps as beautiful, seductive, immortal, superior, and complex beings (like elves ) with complex and profound psychology and motivation. In short, vampires have been constantly reinvented as monsters shaped by their times. The wikipedia article actually has a lot of interesting vampire lore. (I personally prefer the unglamourous "old school" Strahd-style vamps who are aren't deformed, aren't sexed up, and aren't comedy figures; post-Lugosi, pre-Blacula.)
* I love Slavic folklore, full of demons, monsters, dead gods, and sullen peasants. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Apr 2011 04:58:47 |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:55:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I just have a hard time with the trend in literature of the "corruption of goodness" I guess.
Why the heck do good things always have to be corrupted...why the heck can't evil things be corrupted by good things...
Sometimes they are, although it's called "redemption" rather than corruption. |
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Immmunity to vampirism?
