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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 05:47:57
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Lycanthropy is also passed through bites, (undead) Mummy Rot only requires touch. Magical afflictions require magical contact.
Strahd was cursed, and part of his curse evidently populated half of Ravenloft with vampires. I suppose it's a supernatural blood curse. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Apr 2011 05:50:13 |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:17:28
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in my games, since the Vampirism takes effect only after being slain by the Blood Drain or Energy Drain, I rule that it's effect is litterally the Essencelessness/Spiritlessness (not to be confused with Soulessness) of the victim by means of killing them through Blood Drain or Energy Drain. they are slain by the Vampire, and then their bodies rise later as Vampires or Spawn under the control of the Vampire who litterally drank their Spirit.
this, of course, is where I am making a philosophical Flavour Judgement by ruling that the Spirit is located within the Blood, with works very well with the concept of Ki that Monks, Ninjas and Kensai use. as a result, I often use Vampirism as a way to drain those powers! XD I can be a mean DM when I wanna be. =w= |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Edited by - ChieftainTwilight on 02 Apr 2011 06:19:36 |
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Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Abenabin Gimblescrew
It is short of in line how Ravenloft and other lore upon Vampires favored in this instance. I for one, though, don't usually have vampires be standard templates all the time. If I make a vampire Npc it is going to have abilities differ from the norm on something. That way my PCs don't think they can just waltz right up to one and stab them in the heart with just any wooden stake.
For example; say you have a human from Chult who is a vampire. Not any piece of wood made into a stake, but a specific one from the Chultan jungle would be needed to stake it through the heart. That could be an adventure upon itself to acquire depending upon how far one is from Chult and what type of locale you are in. Not every back-water town has traders moving through with rare commodities from far flung places of Faerun at your convenience.
Vegan vampires must be killed with a steak thru the heart. 
lol, So would torture to them be seeing you cook one over an open flame? You know, instead of holy water?
*Chuckles* Even better you use the juices from the steak as the Holy Water.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Vampires (or creatures similar to them) have existed in folklore since ancient times. The dead are hungry, the dead must be appeased, demons and the dead walk the land and somehow feed upon the vital essence of the living, they start with the dark side of human nature (since they were once human) and become supernatural predators. The word vampire seems to have originated in Slavic cultures* sometime in the early 18th century. Vampires were first described by Bram Stoker as hideous creatures (similar to what we call nosferatu), they quickly evolved on screen into attractive/seductive noblemen, eventually became adorned with fangs, hypnotic powers, shapeshifting mist, fear of holy symbols, etc. Our current conception (largely spurred by Anne Rice, Buffy, and Ravenloft) has reinvented vamps as beautiful, seductive, immortal, superior, and complex beings (like elves ) with complex and profound psychology and motivation. In short, vampires have been constantly reinvented as monsters shaped by their times. The wikipedia article actually has a lot of interesting vampire lore. (I personally prefer the unglamourous "old school" Strahd-style vamps who are aren't deformed, aren't sexed up, and aren't comedy figures; post-Lugosi, pre-Blacula.)
* I love Slavic folklore, full of demons, monsters, dead gods, and sullen peasants.
Arik, I too am a big fan of the older style Stroker's interpretation upon the vampires. As well as the Slavic lore in general upon monsters and dead gods of ancient times.
I would like to see someone actually have the initiative to try and bring back the old style. However, in an image driven market, I doubt we'll ever see movies again that don't have super sex'ed up something. I used to think that was the given roll for the actors playing the victims trying to kill the monsters, but hey, what do I know, right?
I'd also like to see a horror film try to attempt to do classic suspense like they did back in the day when they didn't have huge budgets for gory scenes. I always thought it more nerve wracking not knowing when someone was going to bite the dust and the build up.
Alas, I think the days of that are done, considering they can just bombard you with all the neat computer graphics they have at their disposal.
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Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
Edited by - Abenabin Gimblescrew on 02 Apr 2011 06:38:35 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:40:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Vampires (or creatures similar to them) have existed in folklore since ancient times. The dead are hungry, the dead must be appeased, demons and the dead walk the land and somehow feed upon the vital essence of the living, they start with the dark side of human nature (since they were once human) and become supernatural predators.
Yeh, I like reading bits of the lore and history with cultural ties (just bought a new book on it that looks good so far), though I'm far from a lore-expert. But that's RW; I realize that's where FR vampires were drawn from, I just don't believe the concept of positive/negative energy fits very well, among other bits of inconsistency. Not that one can expect everything to, and I mean no criticism of the people who've contributed to FR over the many years; I'm in awe of the massive piece of work that the setting is. I'm just an annoyingly inquiring mind.
quote:
(I personally prefer the unglamourous "old school" Strahd-style vamps who are aren't deformed, aren't sexed up, and aren't comedy figures; post-Lugosi, pre-Blacula.)
I rather like the Daybreakers kind, or something similar---normal people who have a potentially-horrific need and the drives that come with it, and they have to figure out how they're going to deal with it on a daily basis, possibly for a very long time to come. It opens the door for story about the "monster within" anyone, brought out by dire circumstance, fear, and temptation to indulgence, rather than someone simply being a victim of a "monster" that was forced into them from outside and took over. If they can't choose to not crumble (or if it's 99.99% likely to happen due to that outside influence), I don't find much life ( ) in it. At that point, a vampire is essentially a jump-out-from-behind-the-door monster, to me. "Blahw! I vill sock you blott!" |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:56:11
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| Ye'd probably like books by Karen Chance, I've only read Midnight's Daughter and Death's Mistress, they're standalone but seemed to draw a lot of vampire, fey, and magic backstory from previous novels. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 07:00:37
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quote:
Laerrigan — "Blahw! I vill sock you blott!"
We have a long gaming tradition of using that sort of bad Vrussian villain talk whenever saying something in-game that involves charming, influence, suggestion, domination, etc. It all began with a terribly stereotypical vamp villain I played many years ago. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 07:07:02
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awesome.
I'll have to add those books to my list of "things to seriously look into." |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 07:39:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Strahd was cursed, and part of his curse evidently populated half of Ravenloft with vampires. I suppose it's a supernatural blood curse.
That most recent info we have on this, aside from Wizards updated Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, is what exists in White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT books. Which makes the case for Strahd's vampiric curse to be something of a very unique phenomenon and almost entirely the product of the Dread Domains, and its associated Dark Powers.
In other words, it's unlikely that whatever really happened to Strahd, can be duplicated beyond Ravenloft. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 20:17:49
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As I've stated in my last post, according to Ed, the rules in FR are slightly different then the rules in core D&D (and Ravenloft). So long as the holy-symbol was consecrated, it does undead damage. Vamppires recoil from ALL holy symbols of lawful-good gods.quote:
Lords of Darkness, pg.86
The holy symbols of lawful good deities cause vampires to recoil, although the mere sight of such devices does not harm a vampire in any way. Vampires of all alignments and faiths (in life) are affected by lawful good holy symbols, even if they have never seen them before. Why vampires - and of all undead, only vampires - are so affected by lawful good holy symbols remains a mystery.
It isn't entirely clear from that if vampires would recoil from un-consecrated holy symbols, but considering it does no damage, I would DM-judge 'yes'.
I'm not thrilled with the idea of a vampiric Celestial, unless the back-story was insanely good. I would also like to see said individual self-exiled, hiding in some remote corner of the multiverse, rather then allowing his fellow Celestials to 'give onto themselves'. Such an exiled celestial could make for a great plot device, although I wouldn't revolve an entire story around him (characters could have to go to him for some sort of 'dark secrets' - things only that one celestial would know). In fact, his story would be better if it was one of those things 'no-one talks about'.
Laerrigan, you need to get your head out of the 'Twilight regions'.
Drinking blood is BAAAAAAAD. It is an evil act. Medieval (and therefor fantasy) scholars believed that "The Blood" contained the person's 'life force' - you are basically consuming a part of their soul. Thats DEMONIC, not angelic.
Would a Celestial give a part of himself (the sacrifice) to another celestial? Of course he would - the entire basis of being one of those beings is selflessness. HOWEVER, a Celestial taking such sustenance from a fellow Celestial is acting narcissistic, and is selfish. He should be willing to sacrifice his own existence to end his affliction, not cause the suffering of others. A Celestial that behaves that way should 'fall'... I could see a fallen vampiric Angel dwelling (miserably) in a cave somewhere in Hell.
I love the idea of celestial blood being both addictive and destructive to vamps. There are a lot of cool things you could do with this - everything from a 'lush' vamp who only likes to partake of drunken individuals, to ones that have more eclectic tastes (like one that prefers to drink the blood of Reptilian creatures, like Lizardfolk). Basically, different sorts of blood (outside 'the norm') would have different effects on vamps, kinda like how drugs effect humans in the RW (could a vamp go into 'diabetic shock' from eating too many halflings?)
What happens to a vamp that attempts to drain a Shade, or a Malaugrym? Interesting possibilities there..... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Apr 2011 20:21:13 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 20:54:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Laerrigan, you need to get your head out of the 'Twilight regions'.
Drinking blood is BAAAAAAAD. It is an evil act. Medieval (and therefor fantasy) scholars believed that "The Blood" contained the person's 'life force' - you are basically consuming a part of their soul. Thats DEMONIC, not angelic.
I've never read or watched anything Twilight and I don't like much of what I've heard/read about it, even the positive reviews, but if you're playing with meanings to imply I have my head in a place where the sun don't shine merely for asking honest questions, I'm sorry but that's just not appropriate here. The only stupid question is the one not asked [shrug]. And looking back at the core template, now, I've just realized it has Con drain, not damage (I always got the two Ds mixed up, anywhere they appeared, ever since I started learning the game). Hm. In my gaming we just made it HP loss, which of course is far from permanent, and goes much better with the fact that someone loses large amounts of blood when they take a major flesh wound in combat and they only lose HP in that instance. I also seem to recall a Ravenloft darklord vampire damaging Con with his bite, not draining, because victims were weakened but slowly recovered over a few days' time....but that's not FR. Ok, looks like the one point of drain vs. damage---permanency of effect---answers a good bit of my issues, for FR canon. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 02 Apr 2011 20:57:45 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 21:03:00
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I'm sorry - I was trying to make a joke; my bad.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 21:05:04
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I did get the humor and chuckled a bit at the turn of phrase, in any case  . Just wasn't entirely sure of the real intent. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 22:48:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Drinking blood is BAAAAAAAD. It is an evil act. Medieval (and therefor fantasy) scholars believed that "The Blood" contained the person's 'life force' - you are basically consuming a part of their soul. Thats DEMONIC, not angelic.
if you mean by the common perception, than yes. but I still rather like the Devil's Advocate point of view... after all, if they don't feed they will die. they are just eating food/hunting. I'm not about to say definitively whether it is "right or wrong", or "good or evil"... I like to leave that question unanswered until nessesary. =w=
also, the Life Force is the Spirit... the Personality/Identity/Memories is the Soul. other than that, you are totally correct.
quote:
Would a Celestial give a part of himself (the sacrifice) to another celestial? Of course he would - the entire basis of being one of those beings is selflessness. HOWEVER, a Celestial taking such sustenance from a fellow Celestial is acting narcissistic, and is selfish. He should be willing to sacrifice his own existence to end his affliction, not cause the suffering of others. A Celestial that behaves that way should 'fall'... I could see a fallen vampiric Angel dwelling (miserably) in a cave somewhere in Hell.
YES! JUST YES! EPIC WIN! :D
quote:
I love the idea of celestial blood being both addictive and destructive to vamps. There are a lot of cool things you could do with this - everything from a 'lush' vamp who only likes to partake of drunken individuals, to ones that have more eclectic tastes (like one that prefers to drink the blood of Reptilian creatures, like Lizardfolk). Basically, different sorts of blood (outside 'the norm') would have different effects on vamps, kinda like how drugs effect humans in the RW (could a vamp go into 'diabetic shock' from eating too many halflings?)
What happens to a vamp that attempts to drain a Shade, or a Malaugrym? Interesting possibilities there.....
heheh.... not totally original, but still too often not thought about. >w< I like your style, Mark. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 23:29:36
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| Blood represents life, death, passion, pain, anger. Vampiric creatures were just demons in ancient times (but then again, so was every other monster ... along with earthquakes, forest fires, ugly foreigners, diseases, and rabid animals), I wonder how differently history might have turned out if Gygax's books were published in ancient Rome. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 01:12:29
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Ugly foreigners are NOT demons? 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 01:14:52
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They might be demons if they hunt humans and drink blood. Can never trust those bloody foreigners, after all.
<- best I could do, wanted a vampire emote with fangs.
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[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 01:34:23
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Weren't the Buffy vamps demons?
I only watched a few episodes of that show, and usually only when I couldn't find the remote.
A TV series about a hot young girl with a really bad case of necrophilia... only in America....
And a Vampire named Angel, who now likes to play with Bones... all the pieces are there... anyone?
I got nuthin'.........  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 02:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That most recent info we have on this, aside from Wizards updated Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, is what exists in White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT books. Which makes the case for Strahd's vampiric curse to be something of a very unique phenomenon and almost entirely the product of the Dread Domains, and its associated Dark Powers.
3e White Wolf Ravenloft books?!? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 02:32:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Weren't the Buffy vamps demons?
I only watched a few episodes of that show, and usually only when I couldn't find the remote.
A TV series about a hot young girl with a really bad case of necrophilia... only in America....
And a Vampire named Angel, who now likes to play with Bones... all the pieces are there... anyone?
I got nuthin'.........
Actually, the vamps in Buffy were the undead bodies animated/possessed by demons. Which is one of the the prevailing theories in 3.5 at least as to what happens to individuals turned into vampires. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 03:00:30
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That actually makes some sense, in a twisted, vampires-are-souless kind of way.
The 'bite' acts as a 'doorway' then, correct? It allows a demon to gate directly into the body.
I think I rather like that take. Not that I plan to use it in my own setting, but for D&D it works just fine.
My vamps are the product of magically enhanced biological agents (they were created by my amphibious aberrational race). Basically, they slapped the shadow template on a virus (which has different results, depending on the victim). Sometimes it just creates Maurtai (the walking dead). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 03:03:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That most recent info we have on this, aside from Wizards updated Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, is what exists in White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT books. Which makes the case for Strahd's vampiric curse to be something of a very unique phenomenon and almost entirely the product of the Dread Domains, and its associated Dark Powers.
3e White Wolf Ravenloft books?!?
During 3E, White Wolf was licensed to produce Ravenloft material. And they did. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 03:20:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That most recent info we have on this, aside from Wizards updated Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, is what exists in White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT books. Which makes the case for Strahd's vampiric curse to be something of a very unique phenomenon and almost entirely the product of the Dread Domains, and its associated Dark Powers.
3e White Wolf Ravenloft books?!?
During 3E, White Wolf was licensed to produce Ravenloft material. And they did.
Basically, Wizards licensed their RAVENLOFT material to Arthaus Games for D&D 3e/3.5e systems. The products were published by White Wolf under their Sword & Sorcery Studios imprint. Eventually, the Arthaus license for the RAVENLOFT line reverted back to Wizards in August 2005. However, S&S still retained the right to continue to sell all of its remaining stock for the RL line until June 2006.
Unfortunately, this lapse also meant that the last 3e RL supplement published by White Wolf -- Van Richten's Guide to the Mists -- did not see print. It was only later that it was instead released as a free PDF download in September 2005. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 03:52:51
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| I was not aware of Van Richten's Guide to the Mists, thanx guys! |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:06:41
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Wouldn't it be nice to see vampiric treants? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:20:54
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| AKA sapsuckers.... There was a module that had a cabal of seven vampires, in a castle atop a high bluff complete with a deep lake with an undead aquatic dinosaur, bothering a village down below. The castle grounds had vampiric rosebushes. They attacked with thorny tendrils, and if they latched on and drained blood, the white roses gradually turned blood-red. Always seemed to me that if human vampires go after human blood, you'd think plant vampires would go after plant "blood" in the form of sap, but oh well, it was fun to make them attack the party. And I can't for the life of me remember the name of that mod. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 05:27:23
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Sapsuckers...? Hmmm... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 06:59:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wouldn't it be nice to see vampiric treants?
I'm sure there's something like this in one of the 1st-Edition WARHAMMER army books.
...
*The Sage goes off digging through his old book stacks* |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 07:06:28
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Really? Wow! Here I am thinking my gigantic vampiric Nepenthes Rajah is unique. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 07:34:55
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| About the only D&D frontier remaining free of vamping template frenzy has been aquatic; even the gods aren't immune. The idea of vamp mermaids and vamp nymphs is a little exciting and worrisome ... but perhaps unlikely because of that "running water" detail. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Immmunity to vampirism?
