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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Apr 2011 : 21:08:42
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| I personally love my copy of Monte Cook's World of Darkness. Unfortunately, most of my group would rather play OWoD then a d20 version. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2011 : 23:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which leads me to believe that corporeal undead and incorporeal undead come from two different 'power sources'. This harkens back to the days when mummies were still created with positive energy (something they 'fixed' in 3e). I am trying to turn this into some kind of workable system for undead in my games.
Cool. I do like the concept of undying, as opposed to undead, in Eberron. It just seems to make sense that someone, some time, would have come up with a way to use positive energy for immortality, and I've wondered if it's ever shown up in FR. After all, positive heals and regenerates and animates, right? (respectful nod to Elestar for his intriguing use of positive energy with Arcana) I hadn't realized mummies used to be that way (having come into D&D with 3.5, myself). And the idea of incorporeal being inherently different is interesting. I haven't played in the Ghostwalk setting, but read through much of the book a couple years ago and rather liked the way it had ghosts as separate from negative energy, with their own entirely unique traits as a type of creature. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 04 Apr 2011 23:56:07 |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 00:03:24
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I actually prefer the World of Darkness and White Wlf stuff... o.o I've always preffered Storytelling aspects of RP games, so when I was introduced to WoD this year I embraced it. hell, I've now mixed rules for D&D and WoD! :D
for regular old d20 system, I've actually restyled the Lycanthropes in my Homebrew Setting to be as much like in Werewolf: The Forsaken (from New World of Darkness) as possible. though I prefer to play in Bell Curve System anyway. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Edited by - ChieftainTwilight on 05 Apr 2011 00:15:20 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 01:11:25
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Hawkins---thank you SO much for that link to Liber Vampyr. I've started reading through it and it's very much in line with how I like to view/play them. It actually has blood drain doing Con damage! Temporary effect!  Like Xanth, where half a soul will regenerate with time, and like Ravenloft's Von Kharkov and his offspring, whose victims (if left alive) are weak and "fevered" for a day or three but get better. And it has suggested guidelines for assigning moral-axis labels to ways and circumstances in which the vampires get what they need. I highly recommend this supplement to anyone that likes the idea of vampire PCs that have great "dark and beastly" potential if the player wants their character to be that way (there are certainly power benefits to being that way, and their very nature nudges in that direction), but doesn't want to be railroaded into permanently crippling/killing hapless sentient victims night after night to survive. There's a nice breadth of freedom and option in this book, without losing the grit (as far as I've read). Definitely a WoD flair---including the use of blood points and powers---but d20 and not setting-specific. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 05 Apr 2011 01:15:17 |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 01:16:54
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| yes, Con Damage seems much more appropriate, especially to how I like to see them played and used. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 02:52:33
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I use a hybrid system anyway, where HP=fatigue and Crits go to Con (your actually body dam). Also, magic drains HP (as well as fighting, running, etc... but it comes back MUCH faster then in RAW).
That was my own 'fix' to low-lev mages running out of spells early, amongst other things (although I plan to use a few of 4e's systems next time I run a game - the power-points model lends itself very well to my own system).
So yeah, it would definitely be Con dam for me as well, since that was 'real damage' in my hybrid system.
And I run my games very much in a story-teller (RP) fashion, but I like the crunchy bits when I need them. I would probably enjoy running a ST system game, but the only ones I played in the GM was pretty bad and it was an exercise in 'railroading' that got very boring (it was draggin'lance, NOT vampire). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 13:25:35
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| The uncertainty of which vampiric weaknesses are true is what makes this monster great. Wish there were more for others, with the rakshasas there was just the sacred bolt, had to make new ones from mythology. The running water worked on many other undead cause it's traditionally a barrier from the world of the dead. Tough the best of a few vampire books I read (Fevre Dream by GRRM) involves river steamboats. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 14:37:12
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Older editions used to list more vulnerabilities for monsters, as well as uses for body parts, society, etc. I still find myself referencing the older source material far more then the newer (which tends to only provide stats and very little in the way of 'fluff').
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 16:27:34
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hey, ya know what they say; :) sometimes going forward means going backwards, but standing still never gets anyone anywhere. ^_^
I am actually looking back into 2nd edition stuff myself, and I am highly intrigued with what I'v read so far. I particularly like the 2nd Edition Diablo II kits for Amazon (essentially the equivalant of a female Archery-Style Ranger with Arcane-Archer-esque spellcasting) and Barbarian (realy seems like a mixture of the Two-Weapon-Style Ranger mixed with Barbarian and Marshal [from Miniatures]). it's a very interesting set.
in fact, I'd like to see a 2nd-edition group consisting of an Amazon, a Barbarian, a Necromancer, and a Priest. maybe also a Thief, maybe...
anywho, I also noticed there version of Dodge. it comes in two different Proficiencies; Dodge (for Mellee) and Evade (for Missile). instead of being a focused passive ability (the +1 Dodge to AC against one opponent every round) they are rolled as checks (usable once per round) against the appropriate attacks (though, since they are two proficiencies, if you have both you can use each in the same round once). they provide much better defence than in 3rd edition, and you don't have to choose against who ahead of time, but are not automatically successful; which is alot more dramatic in my opinion! ^.^
so yeh, I know I kinda got on a little tangeant here, but I just had to share. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2011 : 23:50:10
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Its okay - I'm a tangent-vampire.
I thrive on side-chatter.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 03:30:20
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quote:
Markustay
Older editions used to list more vulnerabilities for monsters ..
That's largely because monsters in older editions were often far more dangerous. They could slay a PC outright in manners most sudden and unfair. My vamps still level drain, yes they suck your XP levels ... my PCs are quite seriously worried when they know vamps (or other level draining undead) are hunting in the darkness. None of this gentle progression stuff; many monsters can kill even the most stalwart heroes almost instantly ... force the players to use their brains more than their hit points. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 04:57:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Older editions used to list more vulnerabilities for monsters, as well as uses for body parts, society, etc. I still find myself referencing the older source material far more then the newer (which tends to only provide stats and very little in the way of 'fluff').
Gods, that's one of the things I miss most about 2E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 07:02:21
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The latter of the D&D 3e monster books attempt to reintroduce some of those nifty extras in their creature write-ups... but it still just never felt like enough.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Apr 2011 07:03:55 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 07:52:19
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....Ok, as a 3.x-lover, even I have to say that my limited experience with the writeups and "fluff" in older editions has been very good, lol. I started out with 3.5 and then got introduced to the awesomeness of earlier Ravenloft monsters. I can intently read the fluff, glance at the crunch, and quickly improvise a conversion on the fly for the homebrew rules I use. The written info just gave that solid a grasp of the creature in ways far beyond numbers.
[tosses MT a side-chatter-flavored blood sausage] |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2011 : 13:39:41
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I like that the magic heavy Realms has some terrifying psychic vampires. The Nishruu, Gazneths and Hakeshar are true mage banes!
The Nishruu and Hakeshar are mostly gaseous demons (corrupted air elementals?) that drain the highest level spell slots with EACH attack they make AND have the ability to absorb magic attacks. They are found naturally only on Pandemonium/Limbo but have been known to be bound to the realms by Imaskari and Netherese magic lords, usually to guard strong artifects from nosy mages. Hakeshar and Nishruu are found rarely in magic heavy areas (such as Thayan enclaves) where they can become real nuiseances real fast.
Gazneths are demons that drain magic, described in the Cormyr novels, but I don't know much about them anyfurther as I didn't read that novel line.
Psionic vampires are slightly more commonly known (amongst Mind Mages) as Brain Moles and Thought Eaters are stamped out as soon as possible.
The spellscarred character Myrin in De Bie's Downshadow is also some form of an arcane vampire, but she doesn't really control her power or know how she got it, or if its a true blessing or a terrifying curse.
________
But to hook into this main topics discussion of corporeal vs incorporeal vampirism.
I think it might be possible that corporeal vampires are once-mortals cursed with a demonic unlife, whose bodies only crave for the very vitals that sustain the gods creations, mortal BLOOD. The first (antediluvian) vampires desired to spite the gods for a percieved folly and took on demonic pacts that ensured their souls would be annihilated and replaced by something demonic instead, escaping any afterlife the gods had planned for them, either by immortality or by achieving oblivion upon destruction of their corporeal forms. The pact was selfsustaining, but I'd limit the creation of true vampires to creatures with sentience and warm blood. Dragons, scaley folk and abberrations all fail to become full fledged vampires in my campaigns, achieving a free willed vampiric spawn status at best.
Incorporeal vampires are most likely then ghost or spectres who have been granted or cursed by a demon and given a thirst for the incorporeal stuff that generates or ementates off of life, MAGIC. Such psychic vampiric ghosts crave for the hypervitalized life-energy that magic is composed off, mostly to sustain their own presence on the Material Plane. It could be that some excommunicated vampires are forced to become psychic vampires/nishruu when their physical haunts become utterly annihilated and/or they stay in their gaseous forms for too long. Or perhaps its all vampire souls' fates to become Nishruu in their after-undead existance...
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Immmunity to vampirism?
