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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 04:47:36
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I thought about posting this in the ask Ed section, but my knowledge of the Realms is far from complete so I thought I would put it here first in case this info is elsewhere (or in case he has already addressed this).
I know that there are a few concentrations of psions/psionic creatures in the Realms. The Illithids, that one Drow house that got almost entirely wiped out, I believe the Yuan-Ti (I think that it is mentioned in one of the 3.x sourcebooks that psionics are somewhat prevailant amongst the Yuan-Ti). So, the first question is, are there any other areas with a higher than normal psionic presence? Any particular regions/populations/races/crossbreeds?
Monks have monestaries. Clerics have temples. Wizards have guilds, enclaves, circles (and probably a million other names for groups). Druids can have circles. Knights/Paladins can have orders. You get the idea. So, do Psions have anything like that? Is there anything along the lines of a psion enclave located anywhere in the Realms? A place where psions can gather for training, sharing insight into their abilities, pooling their resources, etc? I would think that there would be, if for no other reason than some evidence points to psionics being inherited (that one Drow house, whole races have psionics, at least one Yuan-Ti half breed has psionic abilities and I believe the implication was the Yuan-Ti blood was the source of his abilitites). I would think that would lead to a concentration of psions at some point.
And I have a couple of general psion questions because my source material for psionics is lacking. 1) Are psionic abilities inherited as seems to be the case in at least some cases? 2) Can a psion "awaken" psionic abilities in another being? 2a) If so, can this be done in someone who doesn't have any latent psionic abilities? 3) (kind of a variation of 1 and 2) Are psionic abilities a case of "you either have them or you don't" and it just takes the right situation/training to awaken them? Or is it a power that anyone can have "awoken" in the right situation (I assume a powerful psion or some type of artifact)? 4) What is the best place to look for info on psionics in general (D&D psionics, I mean)? Anything Realms specific? I assume that some Dark Sun material covers this given the prevailance of psionics there? 5) Are there any races that are absolutely psionically dead? Can't be mind read and can't develop psionic abilities?
Thanks for any input.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 05:07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
So, the first question is, are there any other areas with a higher than normal psionic presence? Any particular regions/populations/races/crossbreeds?
Jhaamdath. It's the only psiocracy in the history of the human nations of Toril. Unfortunately, it was destroyed in 255 DR by elven high mages of Nikerymath. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Knightfall
Learned Scribe
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 06:41:25
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I'm not sure if you've seen these Class Chronicles articles on WotC's web site or not, but I thought they might help...
Psionic Races and Classes: Blues, Duergar, and Elans
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620
Psionic Races and Classes: Ghostwise Halflings, Githyanki, Mind Flayers, Yuan-ti, and Psionic Bestiary
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627
Psionics Across the Land: Cormyr, Evereska, Kaliesh-Erai, Halruaa, Sembia, the Shaar, Thindol
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070703
Psionic Classes: Ardent, Divine Mind, Psion, Wilder, Erudite, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, Lurk
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070711 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 14:21:03
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Psionics has always been really rare in the Realms, to the point where the common folk don't recognize it as anything other than a slightly different kind of magic. Off hand, I can't think of very many NPC's with psionic abilities. One or two wild talents among minor characters (one of them in Cormyr, I think), and Sarya's son was a full-blown psionicist.
So no, there aren't any psionic academies on Faerun. There just aren't enough psionicists to warrent it. Instead, training is probably done through master-apprentice relationships, and I'm sure at least some psionicists are self-taught. It's one of the more reasonable classes for self-taught-hood.
To your list of psionic races, I'll add the duergar. They actually do have large numbers of psionicists, along with a diety patron of the art (Deep Duerra). I would imagine duergar cities have very regimented psionic academies, run by temple psionicist/clerics and psionicists.
As for your other questions, it depends in part on what edition you're playing. You'll notice that I've used the 2e term "psionicist" throughout this post, as that's the edition I play, as well as the rules-set that I think does the best job of dealing with psionics. In 2e there was a metapsionic power (psionic surgery) that could do a bunch of things. One of them was make the effects of any telepathic power permanent (hello, permanent domination!). Another thing it could do is to try and awaken a character's psionic potential into a wild talent. This was very far from assured, and carried some fairly hefty risks.
The answers to many of the rest of your questions are "it depends on what you want it to be." Psionics has really not been much touched on in the Realms, so there are very few firm pronouncements. (though I'm pretty sure the answer to #5 is no, or at least, none known). For me personally, the answers would be:
1) They can be, but don't have to be.
2) Everything has "the Will," but only a few know "the Way" to harness it. And, of course, some beings have more Will than others.
2a) Yes.
3) Not usually.
4) Dark Sun. Absolutely Dark Sun. 2e Dark Sun is the best place to look for psionics, and much of what it says is edition neutral (or easily made edition neutral). The Will and the Way is by far the best psionic sourcebook ever published, and aside from one chapter can be pulled out of DS without problem. As mentioned above, there's very, very little Realms-specific information, though I'd check Deep Duerra's write-up in Demihuman Deities as well.
5) I'm pretty sure this is no, or at least, none known. WotC went rather berserk with new races there at the end, though, so I can't be entirely positive. Generally, though, the only beings innately immune to psionics (and, really, only the telepathic discipline, not the rest of it) are undead and golems. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 15:37:16
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| The Gith offshoots as well, although they are non common to the prime material plane |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 15:48:07
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- Underdark, page 134, under the heading of Ch'Chitl, "Mind Flayers: More than 300. Many have levels in psion, psychic warrior, or sorcerer."
- Underdark, page 131, under the heading of Brikklext, many of the important characters are blue(psionic goblin) psions.
- Player's Guide to Faerūn, pages 172-174, multiple psionic organizations are detailed: The Kaliesh'eri, an Evereska-based association of psionic elves; Stray Thoughts, a Sembia-based psionic adventuring company led by a wilder; Forak-Erach-Naek, and Underdark-based group of duergar soulknife/assassins; The College of the Eclipse, a Tethyrian-based society dedicated to the advancement of psionic abilities; and The Hall of Mental Splendor, a Skullport-based group of psionic spies-for-hire.
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Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 16:07:48
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Psionics, or the Invisible Art [which is the term for psionics in the Realms--though it was noticeably absent from Player's Guide to Faerūn], has been in FR since 1e, it has just never been all that prominent in previous editions of the setting. Its apparent lack during 2e FR was mostly noted due to the fact that TSR didn't want two different worlds with a lot of psionics [the published DARK SUN Sun setting was the main TSR setting for psionics], so psionics in the FR were put "on the backburner" so to speak.
One example, in the Ol' Grey Box, mentions that Illistyl Elventree has some degree of psionic power.
In 2e, psionics has a few notable practitioners, one of them House Obladra -- is covered in both FR fiction as well as the 2e Menzoberranzan boxed set.
Every other example of psionic characters in the Realms during 1e/2e can be gleaned from Kuje's FR NPC file -- some of which have developed mostly as wild talents. And take a look through Ed's compiled replies here Candlekeep for his take on psionics in the Realms.
...
Additionally, there aren't many famous human/demihuman psions/psionicists in the Realms because:-
-- the Invisible Art occurs among humans and demihumans mostly as minor wild talents; those are rare, and few of those people develop them strongly
-- it isn't generally known to be anything distinct from magic
-- mass fame as we know it doesn't exist in the Realms anyway |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 17:45:08
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quote:
Firestorm
The Gith offshoots as well, although they are non common to the prime material plane
Gith offshoots? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 18:02:08
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Githyanki and githzerai.
2e's The Illithiad is another sourcebook for psionics, though that one is generic D&D and not FR, most things in there are considered FR canon (they were directly referenced in DD's Guide to the Underdark, for instance). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 01:51:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Githyanki and githzerai.
2e's The Illithiad is another sourcebook for psionics, though that one is generic D&D and not FR, most things in there are considered FR canon (they were directly referenced in DD's Guide to the Underdark, for instance).
Yes. Although the GithYanki evolved into more "Magic users" than Psionicists. The GithZerai seem to be far more psionically inclined.
Then there was of course Paul Kemp's creation, the Githvyrik. The only one ever seen thus far. But damn was he tough. 10000 years old. A high level Archmage and high level Psionicist rolled into one. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 02:20:58
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Thanks for all of the replies and info.
Dennis-Is this city detailed somewhere? It sounds interesting.
Knightfall-Thanks for the links. The third one was particularly useful with it's info of organizations.
Hoondatha-I forgot the Duergar (and the Gith races). I will have to try to track down that Dark Sun book.
Hawkins-Thanks for highlighting another reason for me to finally track down the Player's Guide to Faerun. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 02:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks for all of the replies and info.
Dennis-Is this city detailed somewhere? It sounds interesting.
Races of Faerun, p. 85
A Grand History of the Forgotten Realms. Mentioned in several pages. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 03:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks for all of the replies and info.
Dennis-Is this city detailed somewhere? It sounds interesting.
Races of Faerun, p. 85
A Grand History of the Forgotten Realms. Mentioned in several pages.
See Empires of the Shining Sea and Sea of Fallen Stars as well. And, also, Lost Empires of Faerūn.
Additionally, you'll likely find this collection of scrolls to be of some informative use. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 04:30:23
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Tyrant: Not a problem, that's why we're here.
Jhaamdath has always been the destroyed empire in the Vilhon Reach, but its becoming a psionic empire is a 3e retcon that I never particularly liked. Though I suppose that fair, since I don't like 3e's psionics either. Earlier sources have it as a magical empire, a contemporary (and rival) of both Netheril and the various empires in the Calimshan area. Use whichever feels better to you. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 18:38:00
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| in the Erevis Cale novels, one of his sidekicks (Magadon) is a "mind mage" |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 19:19:38
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...who has "moderate skill," according to Vhostym, who himself was an extraordinary psionicist. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 20:34:08
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| Not to mention there's Ioulaum, one of the strongest archmages with the psionic abilities of an Elder brain. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 21:21:28
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Skullport has a powerful psionic npc
and the character from of the Serpents trilogy, Araevin |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:21:00
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Other psionicists of note: Jhaam, the warrior-king of an ancient human folk living around -5800 DR; and Kimmuriel Oblodra, a powerful psionicist of Menzoberranzan and the last known survivor of House Oblodra. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 04:03:03
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Yeah I should've mentioned that I have read the House of Serpents trilogy. Of the ~100 Realms books I have read, it seems to be the major psionics-centric story. Are there any/many others? Aside from the Drizzt/Jarlaxle books featuring Kimmuriel and the Cale series.
I recently got ahold of Psionic Power (4E) and there is mention of Jhaamdath. It also stated that psionics are on the rise in the Realms (though I haven't seen that play out in the novels) and had a few possible theories as to why.
I have noticed mention of wild talents throughout the responses here. I can figure out what they are easy enough (they sound like random, low level abilities), but where would I find info on them? I assume they are in one of the books I have and I have just overlooked them or forgotten about them. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 04:55:45
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You will no doubt find Monster Manual 3.5 and Expanded Psionics Handbook quite helpful. I particularly like the entries on Uduroot, Yuan-ti, and Githyanki, among many others. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 05:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Yeah I should've mentioned that I have read the House of Serpents trilogy. Of the ~100 Realms books I have read, it seems to be the major psionics-centric story. Are there any/many others? Aside from the Drizzt/Jarlaxle books featuring Kimmuriel and the Cale series.
I recently got ahold of Psionic Power (4E) and there is mention of Jhaamdath. It also stated that psionics are on the rise in the Realms (though I haven't seen that play out in the novels) and had a few possible theories as to why.
I have been meaning to read that Omnibus.
Good to know also about Psionic Power(4E). |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 05:48:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
You will no doubt find Monster Manual 3.5 and Expanded Psionics Handbook quite helpful. I particularly like the entries on Uduroot, Yuan-ti, and Githyanki, among many others.
I have most of the 3.5 Monster Manuals. I also have the Psionic Handbook on the way. Is the Expanded Psionics Handbook the better of the two?
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Good to know also about Psionic Power(4E).
There wasn't much Realms related material in there. It might take up 1-1.5 pages. Most of the info there could be found in this thread. "Rare talents" "Mistaken for magic" etc. The one interesting note (to me) was the mention that psionics were begining to increase in frequency in the Realms (which I would not have guessed based on any of the novels) and the theories as to why (everything from the Spellplague to returned Abeir). |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
Edited by - Tyrant on 01 May 2011 06:00:03 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 05:50:01
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| Expanded is a good book. Plus it's 3.5... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:02:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
You will no doubt find Monster Manual 3.5 and Expanded Psionics Handbook quite helpful. I particularly like the entries on Uduroot, Yuan-ti, and Githyanki, among many others.
I have most of the 3.5 Monster Manuals. I also have the Psionic Handbook on the way. Is the Expanded Psionics Handbook the better of the two?
I only browsed through the Psionic Handbook. It's the Expanded version that I read from cover to cover. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
There wasn't much Realms related material in there. It might take up 1-1.5 pages. Most of the info there could be found in this thread. "Rare talents" "Mistaken for magic" etc. The one interesting note (to me) was the mention that psionics were begining to increase in frequency in the Realms (which I would not have guessed based on any of the novels) and the theories as to why (everything from the Spellplague to returned Abeir).
-Hey, seven is still an increase from five, you know? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:10:07
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At least they threw the old girl a bone... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:14:56
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| -I liked the 3e system of Psionics. Psionics themselves, as in an "alternative magic form", I don't really care for one way or another, but I like the rules that governed them in 3e, with a pool of points, and augmenting powers, and all of that. In my own D&D games, that's the main thing I use to differentiate Wizards and Sorcerers- Sorcerers use the Magic points system presented in Unearthed Arcana, and can augment their spells and all of that at will. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 08:28:30
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What happened to Appensur(sp) the psionic god of Jhaamdath? Wasn't he dead or sleeping and Mystra had possession of him? I was thinking of how Mystra could have pulled a trick out of Doctor Doom's Bag O' Tricks(TM) and did a mind transference to escape death. Maybe she is a psionic goddess now? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 08:36:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
What happened to Appensur(sp) the psionic god of Jhaamdath? Wasn't he dead or sleeping and Mystra had possession of him? I was thinking of how Mystra could have pulled a trick out of Doctor Doom's Bag O' Tricks(TM) and did a mind transference to escape death. Maybe she is a psionic goddess now?
There have been signs that point to an imminent resurgence of faith in Auppenser within the Realms.
Mystra appreciated that Auppenser's death would have had a dramatic impact on the Invisible Art on Toril. Thus, she ensured that he was sent into a long regenerative slumber [from which he is only now {pre-4e} beginning to wake] rather than fade completely. That move saved psionics from being permanently affected by Auppenser's absense.
It should also be noted that some worshippers of Auppensur still exist. And while they're clearly not enough to fully restore Auppenser to a state of power similar to what he enjoyed before the fall of Jhaamdath... they are enough, along with Mystra's decision, to ensure he retains some measure of godly awareness. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 08:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
What happened to Appensur(sp) the psionic god of Jhaamdath? Wasn't he dead or sleeping and Mystra had possession of him? I was thinking of how Mystra could have pulled a trick out of Doctor Doom's Bag O' Tricks(TM) and did a mind transference to escape death. Maybe she is a psionic goddess now?
There have been signs that point to an imminent resurgence of faith in Auppenser within the Realms.
Mystra appreciated that Auppenser's death would have had a dramatic impact on the Invisible Art on Toril. Thus, she ensured that he was sent into a long regenerative slumber [from which he is only now {pre-4e} beginning to wake] rather than fade completely. That move saved psionics from being permanently affected by Auppenser's absense.
It should also be noted that some worshippers of Auppensur still exist. And while they're clearly not enough to fully restore Auppenser to a state of power similar to what he enjoyed before the fall of Jhaamdath... they are enough, along with Mystra's decision, to ensure he retains some measure of godly awareness.
So she could have done the Ovoid Mind switch?
I had a dream that that was what had happened today when Cyric went to kill her.
I guess thats what happened in my Realms. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 01 May 2011 08:40:24 |
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Psionics in the Realms questions
