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Lolth slayer
Acolyte
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Dec 2003 : 15:40:45
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I'm back and I'm moaning again!
Since picking up the new format FR I've noticed a few things that don't quite add up when compared to previous supplements.
We all know Myth Drannor was destroyed by 3 Uber-Nycaloths and thier army of orcs, gnolls and ogres (well those of us too sad to go out anyway) but In the new supplements It seems that WOTC have decided, No it wasn't the army of darkness after all, but in fact demons which were drawn to the concentration of portals around the city? - Did I miss something in my year out of D&D?
The whole adventure in the Spellfire boxed-set where the Oh-so-evil Zass Tham is trying to enslave the Demon Lord Eltab (Pretty significant in my eyes) is totally left out, including the resulting attack on Rashemen by the Red Wizards (not even included in the "Unaproachable East" book).
And where-oh-where is Myth-Glaurach (not essential or even well described in the first place I know) but I thought it might warrant a mention in the Silver Marches book.
I also thought that the Mythal over elven court prevented Drow from entering it and produced a powerful illusion to non-elves which totally obscured it, but now its inhabited by Drow, errr... HOW? (OK I know the mythal might be failing but c'mon..)
I know these are small things compared to the additions that WOTC have made, The Underdark and Faiths and Pantheons in particular but its the little things y'know.....
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I demand a recount! my contestant is a dope fiend!-
-Ahfera Derunadel, Gold elf mage after losing a magedual against a Red Wizard-
We can't stop here! This is Bat country!
-Raul Duke- |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2003 : 04:00:57
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| Should hop on over to the WOTC boards and read WOTC's Richard Baker's comments on continuity and who the company is trying to appeal to when it comes to creating products. His reponses, especially to the latter topic, were very fascinating. Moreover, it explained a great deal about the contents of the 3E and 3.5E products that have come out. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2003 : 13:17:35
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| Can you provide us with some links, Sirius? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2003 : 12:35:42
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Should hop on over to the WOTC boards and read WOTC's Richard Baker's comments on continuity and who the company is trying to appeal to when it comes to creating products. His reponses, especially to the latter topic, were very fascinating. Moreover, it explained a great deal about the contents of the 3E and 3.5E products that have come out.
And there, in a nutshell, is the precise reason why I won't buy 3e products. For the guy on the forum to explain the changes and contradictions in 3e Realms books as "trying the keep the material fresh so it will appeal to new fans" simply isn't good enough, I'm afraid.
My players have been in the Frogotten Realms for a good few years. Am I now to tell them that what they know of the Realms isn't the case anymore and that things have changed? How do I explain this in games terms?
Whatever happened to suspension of disbelief and continuity? What happened to any kind of concerns for the current fan base.
The answers given in the WOTC forum simply highlight the current problems that veteran D&D players are having with Hasbro.
Anyone want to buy a large bookcase full of D&D material  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2003 : 17:34:14
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quote:
Originally posted by kahonen
And there, in a nutshell, is the precise reason why I won't buy 3e products. For the guy on the forum to explain the changes and contradictions in 3e Realms books as "trying the keep the material fresh so it will appeal to new fans" simply isn't good enough, I'm afraid.
The answers given in the WOTC forum simply highlight the current problems that veteran D&D players are having with Hasbro.
I more than understand the feelings you have expressed. I certainly found Mr. Baker's insight sad to hear. Moreover, in regards to veteran fans, and this is personal opinion only, I don't think WOTC has forgotten them or failed to realize that veteran players might have a problem with this company philosophy.
Rather, I believe WOTC feels that people like yourself and I, veterans, will continue to buy the products no matter how messed up continuity is or poor the quality in general.
While, they are wrong in my case. Based upon other message boards I've visited, the overwhelming feeling I get is that for most fans, veterans or novices to the Realms, WOTC could produce a 200 page product filled with drawings from five year olds and exposition in crayon saying Drizzt is now the Uber-God of the Realms, and many will simply buy the book quickly and rub it against their cheek saying, "My precious, my precious."
And hey, if that's what they wish to do. Eilistraee bless them and I don't blame WOTC for continuing to put out products that the masses will like. After all, we are talking about a society, at least in North America, that made Kangaroo Jack a number one picture. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2003 : 23:46:07
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In response to some of your questions, Lolth Slayer:
Myth Drannor, as presented in the 3e FRCS, was destroyed by three fiends leading the Army of Darkness. In 3e, fiend refers to evil outsiders. Yugoloths(of which Nycaloths belong to) are the NE fiends.
Myth Glaurach still exists. It got a paragraph in Magic of Faerun, page 47. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Lolth slayer
Acolyte
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2003 : 12:10:13
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Thank-you Arivia, I'm aware of the new classifications yes - Yugoloths are indeed fiends
But it was just the contradiction in the way in which myth drannor fell, The three nycaloths destroyed the city after being imprisoned above it for several millenia, But the 3esuggests, an army of fiends "walked in" through portals.
The main factor about this (and most things D&D) is that its all upstairs in your imagination, I suppose the only way around it is to like it or change it - thats the beauty with fantasy roleplay. |
I demand a recount! my contestant is a dope fiend!-
-Ahfera Derunadel, Gold elf mage after losing a magedual against a Red Wizard-
We can't stop here! This is Bat country!
-Raul Duke- |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2003 : 12:23:24
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I agree.
I don't think I have ever met an FR gamer who uses the entire FR campaign setting (1e, 2e, and 3e) without at least, some minor changes (for whatever reasons they may be). There is always something someone has changed to suit there own individual tastes.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2003 : 03:48:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
I agree.
I don't think I have ever met an FR gamer who uses the entire FR campaign setting (1e, 2e, and 3e) without at least, some minor changes (for whatever reasons they may be). There is always something someone has changed to suit there own individual tastes.
THe fact that it changes is what keeps me going. I knew when Hasbro bought Wizards it was going to be bad for the realms. I think that the fact the UNDERDARK book is over HALF number crunching, is a sign of those times. THe quality of realms project is still OK, it is packaged nicely, but much of the story has suffered. I wonder, and maybe someone that knows can answer... How much say or input does Ed Greenwood have on the official realms?
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2003 : 05:11:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
How much say or input does Ed Greenwood have on the official realms?
Probably no way to officially get an idea on that question. However, a good path to possibly figure out the answer might be to look at the latest FR releases. How many had Ed Greenwood's name on them? The last product I recall seeing his name on was Silver Marches |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 10 Dec 2003 05:12:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Maeven
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 01:50:53
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Does you guys know how can I inform myself on the realms ? I bought the FRCS but I dont want to spend the next 100 years to buy all of the novels, read 'em and gain encyclopedic knowledge about the realms. Do anybody know where I can find a document that resume the realms history ? I'm poor, you know, and the guys from WOTC dont understand that poor DMs still want to get the "info" ( that one must be pronounced like doctor evil  ).
Thanks, boys... I would be crying everyday without you !!! |
" May Corellon always stay with you, for his favor is a great blessing of life and nature ... " |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 05:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
Next year's Serpent Kingdoms tome will also be authored by Ed Greenwood.
Co-authored to be exact. |
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Maeven
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 23:57:19
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Snif, snif...
As I can see, everybody dont give a f**k of my problems...
It's ok, i'm only going to drown myself in LIQUID HOT MAGMA ( that one too must be pronounced like doctor evil... )
Ok. Just joking. Is there anybody who could answer mer ???
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase !!! |
" May Corellon always stay with you, for his favor is a great blessing of life and nature ... " |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 01:01:28
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Well, what exactly did you want us to do? And don't go expecting us to answer you right away! This is a busy library.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 03:06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, what exactly did you want us to do? And don't go expecting us to answer you right away! This is a busy library.
You always answer all my questions real fast Bookwyrm. And if I'm really good, I get a cookie.  |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 03:57:00
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| Hrumph. I'm just the first to get to them sometimes. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lolth slayer
Acolyte
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 10:10:22
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Don't worry Maeven I'll try my hardest
The best place is either the WOTC site (wizards.com) or here, there are a multitude of forums and features to whet your appetite on a strict budget, you could of course try E-bay, you can pick up all sorts of 1-3e D&D stuff for next to nothing.
Good luck my liege, go forth and educate yourself to the ways of the realms |
I demand a recount! my contestant is a dope fiend!-
-Ahfera Derunadel, Gold elf mage after losing a magedual against a Red Wizard-
We can't stop here! This is Bat country!
-Raul Duke- |
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Maeven
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 23:48:13
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Ok, Lolth Slayer... I'm gonna RAGE !!!
I dont need EDUCATION... just need the INFO to complement what I already know, wich is IMMENSE ! I could beat the sages anytime
Ok. Still joking. Thank you, sir, for your help. It's in our way, as elves, to help each others and thinking we worth a lot more than the other races, even the other elves...
What I really want to know, sage-who-dont-understand, is where I can find free of cheap info on the realms ? But I'm searching for a book or something, not a 3-weeks session of forum's reading... |
" May Corellon always stay with you, for his favor is a great blessing of life and nature ... " |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2003 : 08:17:56
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Yes, that's your best bet for free stuff. Not all of it is there, of course (it's where a lot of my info comes from, and I've got these big gapping holes where things like Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast or Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark should be  ) but it's a good, simple place to start. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2003 : 08:41:30
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I have some locations you can get some good and relatively cheap FR products. Although they are Australian stores (paid in AUS $), the prices are reasonable (I've done the conversions) and they promise speedy delivery...
They are online stores though, and the one I'll recommend is the largest in the country.
I'll email the links out to you.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2003 : 16:28:01
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ok,
Myth Drannor was actually covered by a huge Mythal, which used a lot of energy.
sure, but the Mythal in this way attracted also a lot of magic energy.
so what?
well, as always, there was a betrayer, a powerful mage who helped the drows to bypass the Mythal protection.
they made portals to invade the Cormanthor forest with thousands demons and evil outsiders.
in fact, the Mythal was so powerful that its magical and energic power helped the outsiders to come, bypassing the FR protections and rules.
thus, Myth Drannor fell under the armies of evil, i mean drows, evil outsiders but also all the Cormanthor evil residents: orcs, ogres, bugbears, goblins, trolls, hobgoblins and so on.
During all this time, the Elven Court had been taken a first time by drows, driders and undeads and evil outsiders.
then, taken back by elves -when one of the Uber-Nycaloths died-
the elves saw that the Mythal didn't work like before.
indeed, for the Mythal to work, u have to use a lot of natural energy: the forest around, the animals and the people living there.
of course, whereas before elves used positiv energy, drows used negativ energy, for instance to make undead and so doing they make the Elven Court Mythal weaker and weaker.
besides, there wasn't any mage to cast the appropriate spells...
so the Elven Court was taken again and fell into the darkness of this time
but, the Elven Court Mythal was one of the only Mythals which didn't break down.
even weak, it was powerful.
during thousands years, it didn't fail, maybe because of its own weakness. and when it was forgotten by the most, drows came and inhabited the doom
with one goal: take the Mythal power for themselves and use it to make a protection again others elves and others drows.
now, to make the Mythal aliva again, it doesn't need so much powerful magic than before, for several raisons: first the Mythal does still exist and just needs to be empowered, second its a little one, with much less strange powers than the others, because the elves living there only needed protection -and not to fly..., third the nature is all around to be used again in a symbiotic way: Nature giving its strength to make the magic alive, and the magic giving its power to make the Nature growing like u can only see in the Cormanthor forest or in Evermeet. |
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Contradictions in the Realms Lore
