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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37011 Posts |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 18:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One word, for the origin of most of these: Ed. 
I can guess that, but where did he get the ideas?
I mean, I'm looking for info on things like these:
Tyr, for example, was a Norse god. Talos was an obscure character in Greek mythology. Tempus is Latin for 'time'. etc. etc. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 18:27:50
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| I believe Szass Tam is a traditional Yugoslavian name ;) |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 18:41:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One word, for the origin of most of these: Ed.
And don't forget THO, who keeps some of his notes. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 21:54:05
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Ed coins most of his names off the top of his head, preferring that they "sound" correct for the character/beast/thing/concept he wants. Sometimes he's aware of a similar name/sound/usage in another language or culture, sometimes not. (Though he is VERY widely read.)Remember, the conceit of the "Forgotten" Realms linked to our real world means that some names/linguistic sounds can move from one to the other/be used in both for meanings similar or diverging over time, etc.
The important thing to Ed is that names in published Realmslore not "jar" the North American English language gaming public it's aimed at (it's assumed that translators will take over when misunderstandings/problems arise through differing languages/cultures) for whatever reason. So no horses named Tex, no characters called Mykael Jhaksaun, or the like. (Unfortunately, some writers and designers have a harder time coining names, and some jarring results creep in.) However, even when they do, the Realms-Earth linkages can 'explain away' some of it.
Zireael, for specific names, just ask in Ed's thread and I'll shuttle it on to him for his reply.
(And yes, Ed created Szass Tam and the name, Tempus and Talos and Tyr as Realms deities but borrowing Tyr wholesale and the names for the other two, and the word and concept of mythal. "Dweomer," however, was already in the D&D game, written in by Gary Gygax.)
love,
THO |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 01:10:48
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Ed's certainly accomplished a style for Realms naming conventions that has rarely been duplicated elsewhere.
Just flicking through his novels which feature the Dalelands as a setting are worthwhile examples of this. They're great sources for specific Realmslore-based names used in the region. Some even feel [or sound] as though they are period-specific to past eras of the Realms... which is just grand if you're looking to base your campaign prior to current events in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1607 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 11:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Tempus is Latin for 'time'. etc. etc.
Actually, Zirael, Ed borrowed the name Tempus from "Tempus Thales", a character from "The Sacred Band of Stepsons", a fictional ancient cavalry unit created by Janet Morris and based on the historical Sacred Band of Thebes. I mentioned here that "Tempus" is a latin word for time, and in portuguese can be used bothfor time and weather, but Ed confirmed someone's comment (Markustay, maybe) on the name sounding like "Tempest". |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 14:37:29
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To echo THO, I craft my own character names, which undergo the "Realmsian?" test before I write them into my work.
Many of them are crafted from specific base words that I think reflect or invert the character in an interesting way: Arya = aria, House Greyt = great, Lilten = lilt, Fayne = feign, Ilira = liar, Myrin = mere/meek, Gargan = gargantuan, Sithe = scythe or Sith (Star Wars nod)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 14:37:31
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Canonically, 'Myth' in Elven equates to 'city' (although I am sure the Elven concept of a city is quite a bit less urban then the human one).
However, because of its uses elsewhere and by other races, I have theorized that 'Myth' is an even more ancient word taken from the Fey, and meant something akin to 'a safe place for us to go and hide'.
This would take care of both its more modern usages - as a type of 'gathering place' (a settlement), and as a 'safe haven' (a shielded area). It also fits nicely with the RW usage (ie., "the wee-folk are a thing of myths").
This would mean that the Fey used Myths in the same way that humans use castles/fortresses - a place to go to when your enemies were about. I assume it would also be a 'place of power' (one of those areas where the 'veil between worlds' is weaker, which allows certain types of spells/actions to be performed easier, or with greater strength).
Just my 2 cents - take it for what it's worth (which is HB). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2011 14:39:31 |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 20:13:51
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Are you sure about borrowing "Tempus" from Janet Morris, Barastir? The timing looks wrong to me...as in, Ed would have had to borrow from that source BEFORE it was written, or at least published...
People tend to forget when the Realms was created. As in: most of the gods were named and in place by 1978 or 1979...
The "sounds like Tempest" bit is correct, though, because I myself heard Ed confirm that at a long-ago GenCon.
BB |
Edited by - Blueblade on 01 Nov 2011 20:14:22 |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2011 : 23:48:43
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Yeah. I have the first edition of the Thieves World series paperback that the Stepsons (including Tempus) first appeared in, and it's copyrighted 1981.
Which means, yep, Ed got to the name "Tempus" first. Being as the god is named in one of his 1977 Realms short stories.
Ed starts the Realms in 1966, doesn't get it well developed until around 1972, D&D first appears in 1974 on college campuses and among wargamers, 1975 before anyone else sees it, and of course TW (and Janet Morris's Tempus) are five years after that.
So Ed "borrowing" Tempus from Janet Morris just isn't possible, timewise. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37011 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 03:45:39
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| Unless there's time travel involved... And that would help explain his creative output! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 04:09:55
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What's the origin of the word "Toril"?
[That's actually a district in my hometown.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 04:39:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the origin of the word "Toril"?
[That's actually a district in my hometown.]
As I recall, Jeff Grubb contributed the name of the planet [Toril, to which he added the prefix Abeir to shift the world entry to the front of the alphabetical listings in the Old Grey Box] from his campaign. Ed had no world name because the folks in Faerūn knew they lived on something that curved, but considered it all one land. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There were various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 04:45:24
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Interesting. So what did the Netherese [in Karsus's time] call the world? [Faerun sounds like
a Loross word.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 10:26:56
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I believe Szass Tam is a traditional Yugoslavian name ;)
 actually in that ''language''
Szass = a type of swamp plant
Tam = ''there'', ''Tama'' means ''darkness''
Dmitra is a better choice
Some Thayan names seem Greek, for example Thessaloni Canos |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 11:05:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Tam = ''there'', ''Tama'' means ''darkness''
That's Malay [Filipino] for "right" or "correct." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 12:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I believe Szass Tam is a traditional Yugoslavian name ;)
actually in that ''language''
Szass = a type of swamp plant
Tam = ''there'', ''Tama'' means ''darkness''
Dmitra is a better choice
Some Thayan names seem Greek, for example Thessaloni Canos
lol i had no idea it would actually translate. Yugoslavia was the first random country to pop into my mind  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 15:15:29
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What's the origin of lamia?
[Pronounced as lami-a, it's actually a Cebuano word for scrumptious.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 16:44:04
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Don't know.
I know we worked-out in the Utter east thread there were three types of Gorgon (not the metal bull, the snake-haired ladies), and the two non-common types were crossbreads with a different monster. Since Medusae are sometimes depicted with the lower half of a snake, we assumed this was a lamia-Gorgon crossbreed and called it Stheno.
(We also decided that a winged variety would be called a Euryale, after the third sister).
Yes, a bit off topic, but I do so love playing with fantasy/mythology linguistics.
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I believe Szass Tam is a traditional Yugoslavian name ;)
actually in that ''language''
Szass = a type of swamp plant
Tam = ''there'', ''Tama'' means ''darkness''
So Tam's name on Earth would translate to 'Lord Dark-Swamp'? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Nov 2011 16:49:06 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2011 : 17:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the origin of lamia?
[Pronounced as lami-a, it's actually a Cebuano word for scrumptious.]
Lamia comes from the Greek (#955;#945;#953;#956;#972;#962;; laimos) for "gullet"... as she devoured children.
EDIT: apparently, Greek letters don't translate in this forum. Oh well.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 02 Nov 2011 17:12:19 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 09:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So Tam's name on Earth would translate to 'Lord Dark-Swamp'?
Another way to translate Szass Tam is ''what would you do there'' (slang), the most ridiculous is Kara Tur (very vulgar) |
Edited by - Quale on 03 Nov 2011 09:06:30 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2011 : 11:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm
Yeah. I have the first edition of the Thieves World series paperback that the Stepsons (including Tempus) first appeared in, and it's copyrighted 1981.
Which means, yep, Ed got to the name "Tempus" first. Being as the god is named in one of his 1977 Realms short stories.
Ed starts the Realms in 1966, doesn't get it well developed until around 1972, D&D first appears in 1974 on college campuses and among wargamers, 1975 before anyone else sees it, and of course TW (and Janet Morris's Tempus) are five years after that.
So Ed "borrowing" Tempus from Janet Morris just isn't possible, timewise.
Hi guys,
I've found what was written about the name of Tempus on page 15 of Ed's scroll of the current year:
"Hi! Knight of the Gate, you were right on when you posted: "Tempus sounds like 'Tempest', which is what a battle looks like from far above, where the gods watch it." That was indeed my thinking, and the derivation of the name.
However, I am sensitive to what words, names, and vocal sounds can mean in other languages (all astronomers know why "black holes" are called "hairy stars" in Russian), and TRY, to the extent of my limited and faulty linguistic grasp, to check on possible meanings/confusions/unintented meanings in other languages. In this case, I had come across what Barastir posted ("in Portuguese, "tempo" can be either "time" or "weather"" and this holds true, with variants, in other 'Romance languages,' too), picked up on the "storm of war" metaphor, and it strengthened my decision to use Tempus.
BTW, check out the Thieves World series; someone involved in that, back at the beginning, obviously thought along similar lines a few years later (after I'd come up with the gods for the Realms but before all that much about the world had been published). I THINK Andy Offut provided the gods for the TW setting, way back when (somewhere around my house, I have an original TW round-robin contributors' package, and there's a sheet of suggested gods in there), but my memory may be faulty on this.
So there you have it; the origins of Tempus the wargod of the Realms, from Ed.
love,
THO"
As we can see, it was Knight of the Gate who mentioned the "Tempest", after all, and TW really came after the Realmsian God. Anyway, the reason for the choice is not about its latin meaning. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Topic |
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The origin of Faerunian names?
