| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:04:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've seen, in print, at least a couple of male elves that are only too happy to hook up with human women.
-Everyone likes dumpster diving every so often. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
 |
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:15:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've seen, in print, at least a couple of male elves that are only too happy to hook up with human women.
-Everyone likes dumpster diving every so often.
Oh snap! [Spam +1]
Though one of our big examples is, of course, Drizzt and Cattie-brie, both of whom might have some strong words to share on this point. 
I wonder if the prevalence of male human + female elf relationships isn't somewhat a result of all too often fantasy being written with a male audience in mind. The concept being that it's easier to relate to a human male character than an elf male character.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:41:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Hold on now, what does that have to do with the sperm? Why assume most elf-human sexual encounters have a male human and a female elf?
-Because what red blooded male wouldn't want some Elf babe? What kind of Elf man would want a nasty Human woman when he could have an Elven woman?
Why does what the women want not factor into this explanation? If elf men find humans of the opposite sex "nasty", why don't elf women feel the same way? |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:46:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Why does what the women want not factor into this explanation? If elf men find humans of the opposite sex "nasty", why don't elf women feel the same way?
-Elf men are sensitive and have ears that are built for listening. Hey yo! |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
|
|
|
Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 17:54:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Why does what the women want not factor into this explanation? If elf men find humans of the opposite sex "nasty", why don't elf women feel the same way?
A fairly plausible explanation in many cases could be that there is a correlation between sexual attraction and stereotypical attributes associated with the opposite sex. With a certain degree of cultural and a lot of individual variation, as it turns out, exaggerated 'male' characteristics contribute to women finding men sexy and vice versa.
The stereotypical physical characteristics of elves of both sexes are much closer to those of human females than human males. Very simplified, an elven female strikes humans as ultrafeminine while an elven male strikes them as effeminate.
The same effect seems to be at work among elves. While human men appear to elven women as ultramasculine, the women may be more likely to be viewed as mannish by the elven males. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
|
|
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:09:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Why does what the women want not factor into this explanation? If elf men find humans of the opposite sex "nasty", why don't elf women feel the same way?
A fairly plausible explanation in many cases could be that there is a correlation between sexual attraction and stereotypical attributes associated with the opposite sex. With a certain degree of cultural and a lot of individual variation, as it turns out, exaggerated 'male' characteristics contribute to women finding men sexy and vice versa.
The stereotypical physical characteristics of elves of both sexes are much closer to those of human females than human males. Very simplified, an elven female strikes humans as ultrafeminine while an elven male strikes them as effeminate.
The same effect seems to be at work among elves. While human men appear to elven women as ultramasculine, the women may be more likely to be viewed as mannish by the elven males.
That could work, but wouldn't elven women's perception of what is masculine be defined as "elf male." I don't think they would look on human males as more masculine, just more exotic. Maybe even, dare I say it, dwarf-like (because of the facial scruff the average Faerunian male likely has from day-to-day).
Now a human male looking at an elf women will see her exotic beauty, but I'm not sure he'll look upon her and see something more feminine than what he is used to. Especially considering their rather frail elven forms would make certain attributes of the female body less visible. After all, many gamers find elves beautiful, but look at the response poor ugly Mialee got from everyone! |
|
|
|
Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:32:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
That could work, but wouldn't elven women's perception of what is masculine be defined as "elf male."
No more than human standards of beauty are based on typical people, necessarily.
Humans have no difficulty assigning animals personality traits and linking them with gender roles. We see lions and bears as masculine, seals or songbirds as feminine. It's got little to do with reality, a lot to do with perception.
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
I don't think they would look on human males as more masculine, just more exotic. Maybe even, dare I say it, dwarf-like (because of the facial scruff the average Faerunian male likely has from day-to-day).
Now a human male looking at an elf women will see her exotic beauty, but I'm not sure he'll look upon her and see something more feminine than what he is used to. Especially considering their rather frail elven forms would make certain attributes of the female body less visible. After all, many gamers find elves beautiful, but look at the response poor ugly Mialee got from everyone!
I'm not saying that this means that everyone will want inter-species erotica. All it implies is that having an appearance which suggests exaggerated features associated with your sex is probably more attractive to typical members the opposite sex than having features that remind them of their own sex.
There's a lot of individual variation, but human males can still be identified as having, on average, a preference for neotenic features in females. The same does not apply, on average, to the preference of women toward men.
Some of the neotenic features that women have relative to men are more delicate skeleton, smoother ligament attachments, smaller mastoid processes, reduced brow ridges, more forward tilt of the head, narrower joints, less hairy, more delicate skin, retention of fetal body hair, smaller body size, more backward tilt of pelvis, greater longevity, lower basal metabolism, faster heartbeat, greater extension of development periods, higher pitched voice and larger tear ducts.
An awful lot of these applies to elves relative to humans. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
|
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4703 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:38:46
|
There are many dynamics to consider. To start out there is no direct indication that FR human males exhibit some tends that Earth male humans indicate.
What we have from canon and Ed is that elves start to explore sexuality before fertile, both genders appear implied. It certainly can follow that such exploration might also take place freely with near by humans or even humanoids.
Elves have a low fertility rate, there could dally with other races for hundreds of years and not cause a child as a result. The other thing we know about elves are that they are thinner and shorter then the average human.
I thus can see various dynamics, some male humans treating elven women as fragile and do not want to break them because of their smaller size. I can alas also see some male humans because of elf smaller size seeking to dominate them.
As for male elves they clearly might be interested in a more full fleshed human female, more padding Not too fragile and the risk is low of getting a paternity suit.
I sometimes surprised in RW about males talking about chest size. If elves have this trait in FR, there certainly can be many male elf, female human encounters. *shrugs* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:48:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
There's a lot of individual variation, but human males can still be identified as having, on average, a preference for neotenic features in females. The same does not apply, on average, to the preference of women toward men.
Some of the neotenic features that women have relative to men are more delicate skeleton, smoother ligament attachments, smaller mastoid processes, reduced brow ridges, more forward tilt of the head, narrower joints, less hairy, more delicate skin, retention of fetal body hair, smaller body size, more backward tilt of pelvis, greater longevity, lower basal metabolism, faster heartbeat, greater extension of development periods, higher pitched voice and larger tear ducts.
An awful lot of these applies to elves relative to humans.
Well you got me there. |
|
|
|
Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 18:50:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
There are many dynamics to consider. To start out there is no direct indication that FR human males exhibit some tends that Earth male humans indicate.
Unless otherwise indicated, I prefer to think that people are people. To do otherwise makes it impossible for players to portray characters, as their motivations and behaviour would not necessarily have any connection to anything in our experience.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Elves have a low fertility rate, there could dally with other races for hundreds of years and not cause a child as a result. The other thing we know about elves are that they are thinner and shorter then the average human.
The whole point was that elven fertility was apparently not all that low in case of inter-species pairings, to judge by the relative prolificness of half-elves, despite the obvious inability of human-elf pairings to share centuries. When you add the fact that a lot of half-elves seem to result from short-term encounters, it becomes fairly obvious that the fertility of human-elf couplings has to be higher than elf-elf couplings. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 11:32:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Hold on now, what does that have to do with the sperm? Why assume most elf-human sexual encounters have a male human and a female elf?
-Because what red blooded male wouldn't want some Elf babe?
I, for one. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 14:40:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I, for one.
-And thus, you demonstrate your ability to lie to our faces. Come, now. Not nice. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 15:25:58
|
Yeah who wouldn't want to have some snobbish arrogant elf chick?  |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 22 Mar 2012 15:26:22 |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 17:18:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I, for one.
-And thus, you demonstrate your ability to lie to our faces. Come, now. Not nice.
Dennis is much more into the shades, I think.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Yeah who wouldn't want to have some snobbish arrogant elf chick?
Hey, some guys are into that.
It's unlikely that a snobbish elf woman is one of those who would be available for human men (though often the thing we claim to hate is secretly what we want). More likely, elf women who would make themselves more available are less snobbish and more welcoming.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 18:57:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I, for one.
-And thus, you demonstrate your ability to lie to our faces. Come, now. Not nice.
I lie on some occasions. But when it comes to my feelings towards the (pesky) elves, I've always been honest. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 18:58:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I, for one.
-And thus, you demonstrate your ability to lie to our faces. Come, now. Not nice.
Dennis is much more into the shades, I think.
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 21:32:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Hey, some guys are into that.
It's unlikely that a snobbish elf woman is one of those who would be available for human men (though often the thing we claim to hate is secretly what we want). More likely, elf women who would make themselves more available are less snobbish and more welcoming.
Cheers
True, I just wanted to exaggerate a bit into the other direction
I for myself wouldn't mind a nice drow lady (preferably an Eilistraee worshipper than a Lolth one) |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 22:20:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I, for one.
-And thus, you demonstrate your ability to lie to our faces. Come, now. Not nice.
Dennis is much more into the shades, I think.
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
That's the spirit.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:28:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
-Human on Golem relations is illegal in nine counties of Cormyr. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 19:14:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
-Human on Golem relations is illegal in nine counties of Cormyr.
How many counties does Cormyr have? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 23:32:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
-Human on Golem relations is illegal in nine counties of Cormyr.
Thus the almost. Why in the Nine Hells would I want a Golem for 'company'? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 04:04:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
-Human on Golem relations is illegal in nine counties of Cormyr.
Thus the almost. Why in the Nine Hells would I want a Golem for 'company'?
A golem would always retain its figure, and would never say it wasn't in the mood...
Once you go clay, you'll never go away! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Mar 2012 04:04:47 |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 06:49:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Almost anyone who's not an elf nor a Shoon clone is fine, really.
-Human on Golem relations is illegal in nine counties of Cormyr.
Thus the almost. Why in the Nine Hells would I want a Golem for 'company'?
A golem would always retain its figure, and would never say it wasn't in the mood...
Once you go clay, you'll never go away!
They're only good for a different sort of companionship.
Anyway, I wonder, would elves stoop down to mating with golems? And how's that supposed to happen? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 14:46:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Thus the almost. Why in the Nine Hells would I want a Golem for 'company'?
-You tell me.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Anyway, I wonder, would elves stoop down to mating with golems? And how's that supposed to happen?
-I don't think that Golems can mate. They could do stuff with an Elf who was under that persuasion, in theory, but I don't think they're equipped with the necessary...equipment to make babies and such. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 24 Mar 2012 14:47:55 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8043 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 17:24:25
|
Ah, well there are the special anatomically functional golems from Valar's d20 Book of Erotic Fantasy, but they are most definitely not canon.
Most golem types are mindless, absolutely unthinking automatons unmotivated by anything beyond the orders they are given. The exception being semi-intelligent flesh golems ... they possess enough self-autonomy to work out how they will execute their orders and are about as cunning as a stupid animal but are otherwise just as unthinking. Unless one is in Ravenloft where flesh golems can be significantly more independent, insane, and malign, as described in Van Richten's Guide to the Created - these might conceivably use any form of assault (sexual or otherwise) to exact vengeance, inflict suffering, express hatred, or fulfil their insatiable base cravings to (re)experience "life". Their emotions, thinking, and perceptions are twisted by their inhuman existence (and by the powers of Ravenloft) and they'd hardly make good company for anyone other than an insane scalpel-wielding evil necromancer.
[Edit]
I would think that elves generally consider lifeless constructs to be something of a repulsive unnatural thing anyhow. For the same reason that elves view living in human cities full of wooden houses the way a human would view living in a mausoleum. Sleep with a half-reanimated grotesque lumbering mindless dead thing or sleep with a flirty hot little dryad dime, no contest. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 Mar 2012 17:42:23 |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 17:41:36
|
Gynoid Golems. This scroll has taken a strange turn.
It does raise the question in my mind if elves are into, shall we say, erotic art? I seem to recall in one of Elaine's books, there are a group of Windrider elves sitting around a campfire creating lurid images in the flames. I want to say either a satyr or centaur is involved. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 24 Mar 2012 17:47:37 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8043 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 17:43:06
|
| Did you honestly expect otherwise after reading the title? |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 17:51:54
|
| No, not really. The fact that it has taken four pages should be more of a surprise, I suppose. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 24 Mar 2012 17:52:22 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Elves and sexuality
