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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 00:49:44
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| aI said I was ranting and to ignore me |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 00:54:54
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Well fine then.  |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 01:15:06
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but Fox at Twilight still has to right the intro to the realms for 5e's setting book.
btw did you ever find out who did the art for the cover. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
498 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 02:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
@ snip
As for some other obscure deities, I'm under the impression that just because they weren't listed and described Doesn't mean they perished. In fact, I think only 2 deities got the "Aspect" treatment (Sehanine = Selūne, Talos = Gruumsh).
and that never made since, I hated the: sehanine= Selune
yondalla = chautea( i hate chauntea)
hated that whats her name = sune
hated the whats her name fenya became akadi too..
hated the hole shoehorned of 4e's central lore that got shoehorned into the realms.
To be fair, they shoehorned every 'active' world they had to fit 4th Edition, not just the Realms. They would have done the same to Ravenloft, Greyhawk, Planescape, Birthright, and Dragonlance had those worlds been up and running when the 'square peg in the round hole operation' was carried out. One of the rare times we can be thankful that they weren't being supported, I suppose.
And the deity merge was almost comical...I recall one of the diety books with a number of gods sitting around a fountain, and I remember Sune and Hanali Celanil being two distinctly different deities. Makes you wonder how the aspects merged, no? 
- OMH |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 04:28:09
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that would either be demi human deities or the 2e faith and avatar something or other book.
I had a longer psot, but I hit the reset form button. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 04:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@SFD and combining deities: I wouldn't worry about all that.
Have we got through this topic? Shall I come up with a new question of the week?
Cheers
I'm ready for a new question or area we can brainstorm to fix or tinker with. :) |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 05:00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
To be fair, they shoehorned every 'active' world they had to fit 4th Edition, not just the Realms. They would have done the same to Ravenloft, Greyhawk, Planescape, Birthright, and Dragonlance had those worlds been up and running when the 'square peg in the round hole operation' was carried out. One of the rare times we can be thankful that they weren't being supported, I suppose.
Actually, I don't think that's fair to the rule-set of 4E because you could actually play 4E with the exact same setting material as pre-Spellplague. Could Mystra be in a 4E campaign? Yes, I see no relevance of the rules not supporting her (besides no mechanical support via Spells, Feats, Paragon Paths, etc...). The difference of magic in 4E (less Vancian) has really no bearing on the setting. It wasn't even the reason they killed Mystra in the first place. Magic works on Faerūn, period. Does it have to work exactly like Jack Vance's version all the time, 24/7? Absolutely not, and I dare say that it doesn't need explination how it's used from a class by class basis. It's established in Canon that Wizards use Spellbooks, that Wizards use Familiars, that Wizards use spells that allow them to teleport, cast balls of flaming death, shoot bolts of magic, fly, gate in creatures from other planes, and all sorts of crazy stuff. There's nothing in Canon which states that a wizard is only limited to X 2nd level spells per day, a specific D&D rule-set does that. Again, nothing that has been in the Realms can't be handled by 4E rules.
Lets look at Races, like the Dragonborn. Could they have been explained in the Realms without Returned Abeir? Sure could, heck you could fit the chassis (mechanics) of the Dragonborn on Half-Dragons, Bahamut-born Dragonborn, Saurials, and even Dragon-Kin. They put Returned Abeir in there because it over-laid places in the Realms (Unther, Mulhorandi, Maztica) that were mostly under-detailed and little used by the majority of people. Now, I'm sure there are fans of these places, but apparently it wasn't big enough. Secondly, lets look at Eladrin. Yes, this is probably the one aspect I think the Spellplague helped in their "emergence" onto Faerūn for story sake. Faerūn had Eladrin prior to the Spellplague but they took on merits of 3E and prior editions of D&D (being elven celestial). So something had to be done to make them more.......Player Character-ish. But I'm sure Erik or someone else more knowledgeable about the Elves could've come up with a better explination of Eladrin being Sun/Moon/Star elves than "we're more close to the Feywild now, so we're cooler now". Tieflings have always been in the Realms, albiet with different art. Art, to me, isn't something that needs story justification and is about as interchangeable as hair color and weapons descriptions.
So, the changes to the rules of D&D brought on by 4E had really little impact on the changes that were made to the Realms IMO. Magic functions just fine with a Weave and Mystra at the helm in 4E. Divine magic works just fine as direct worship to a deity in 4E. Primal magic has really always been there under the guise of "divine" magic baked in with the Druid spell-list granted from natur-ish deities. By having Primal power source, we're just making it easier to distinguish between someone's connection to the very earth and nature vs. a specific deity.
I daresay 95% of the sweeping changes made to the Realms would've happend regardless of 4E's actual mechanics and ruleset. Had 4E been an exact carbon-copy of Pathfinder or Star Wars: SAGA (mechanics wise) we STILL would've seen the massive changes that occured.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And the deity merge was almost comical...I recall one of the diety books with a number of gods sitting around a fountain, and I remember Sune and Hanali Celanil being two distinctly different deities. Makes you wonder how the aspects merged, no?
- OMH
To me, what's silly is the belief that a Deity is treated with an NPC aspect. That there's one specific, hard-detailed, and codified form of that deity (stats, gender, levels, and powers) which was painted in many Realms novels. That there's a disbelief that a deity could change form to attract more followers (thus grow stronger) and that same changed-form couldn't branch or even break completely from the primary "self" to become an aspect or separate entity into it's own is pretty strange concept.
Sorry but I think the Aspect/split thing actually provides a bit more depth into not only the deity itself but the Dogmas of it's practicioners and the inter-play of it's churches. Additionally, I was under the assumption that most mortals (ya know, the PCs) would be under the pretense of not nothing a whit about how a deity operates "fully" and that such ideals (Aspects being one of them) would be completely beyond understanding that they're just better off knowing that the deity they pray to does indeed grant spells and hear prayers and that in the afterlife, they'll reside with said deity. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe
148 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 05:20:11
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I have to agree with the majority of scribes on this one; the merging of the pantheons was just too cranial, too philosophically dense, for the majority of role playing game enthusiasts to understand.
It reminds me of a bunch of Greeks and a bunch of Romans arguing over the god of the sea:
"His name is Poseidon, and his favored weapon is the harpoon!"
"No, no, no... he is called Neptune, and his favored weapon is the Trident!"
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 05:21:25
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aspects always meant to me being their avatars...
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 07:18:10
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@SFD: It's Raymond Swanland.
@Diffan: that's sort of how I look at the deific mergers. Deities are complex.
Also, yes the 4e changes were done in part to explain how magic works differently in 4e. Totally unnecessary, IMO. Rule changes really shouldn't dictate lore changes.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 14:16:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@SFD: It's Raymond Swanland.
snip
Also, yes the 4e changes were done in part to explain how magic works differently in 4e. Totally unnecessary, IMO. Rule changes really shouldn't dictate lore changes.
Cheers
thank you
and +9001 |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 16:40:05
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New question: What about a Realms product (sourcebook, novel, etc) speaks to you as a "Realms" piece?
Specifically, what is it about the Realms that makes the Realms the Realms?
This is a deeply personal question, so don't give me the answer you think I want to hear or that everyone wants to hear. To you, specifically, what makes the Realms really special?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 18:59:58
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A story where normal people get involved in something way over their head (so far, typical fantasy trope), manage to barely overcome it (usually with losses), and then realize how little they really knew about what was really going on, and how much 'bigger' the world is then just their little piece of it. In other words, wheels-within-wheels, and nothing is as cut-and-dry as it seems. There are no 'endings', only 'chapters' in an on-going story.
Going back to the earlier question/topic...
The 'god question' really can't be answered until we see what sort of direction D&D and FR are headed, and how deeply they plan to merge the two. My own personal preference is that in FR Material we keep all the deities separate, and just allude to certain ones being dead or missing (we should have no absolutes - absolutes are detrimental to the game itself). In other words, very much how the gods were presented in 2e material (except with the added 'fuzziness' where dead deities are concerned).
Then, if they go with a meta-setting approach to D&D itself (which I am hoping for), they can get into the esoteric, philosphical stuff about gods, and what they are, and how much they all interact, or are really all part of one great big ball of 'godhood'. Those types of questions should NEVER be handled in-setting, because it causes all the confusion we have seen. As The Hidden Lord said above - " {it} was just too cranial, too philosophically dense, for the majority of role playing game enthusiasts to understand." (beautifully put, BTW.)
Stick that crap in a Planescape/D&D source, not in FR. You want to attract new fans, keep the 'mumbo jumbo' out of the mainstream material.
For example, suppose you state (in an FR-specific source) that god 'X' is dead. Then you talk about a cult of god 'X', and what its cultist are doing, and even detail the priests receiving spells. That's usually the point where fans start yelling "foul!", and writers start back-peddling and saying "well... ummmm... errrr... its like this...". BS I cry! Don't be wimps!
When fans start questioning why priests of a dead god are receiving spells, it should be answered with, "yes... that is a bit of a conundrum, isn't it?" Stop sucking the mystery out of it all. More then half the crap we discuss on this forum is theoretical 'what if' scenarios. Thats part of the fun of the genre. There are dozens of reasons why said priests might still be getting spells, and from where (or whom). We don't need to know that. Thats one of the greatest tricks of the entertainment industry (this ncludes novels) - you NEVER give away all your secrets - thats what fans keep coming back for.
You know what the most disappointing episode of Lost was? The last one... it was so anti-climactic it was a total bummer. All the fun was in the not-knowing.
So while I am of the school "let people make-up their own answers" (which is better for gaming), you shouldn't actually EVER say that. The trick is to give them a knowing smile and just stay quiet. Think like Ed Greenwood. I've been saying this for years - its not what you say, but how you say it. Maybe all the Realms/D&D/WotC needed was few savvy spin-doctors. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Aug 2012 19:02:55 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 19:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So while I am of the school "let people make-up their own answers" (which is better for gaming), you shouldn't actually EVER say that. The trick is to give them a knowing smile and just stay quiet. Think like Ed Greenwood. I've been saying this for years - its not what you say, but how you say it. Maybe all the Realms/D&D/WotC needed was few savvy spin-doctors.
Maybe so, MT. Maybe so. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 20:58:46
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| I think the whole god thing can be summed up as more is better. There's nothing wrong with a good list of deities to choose from. I haven't used half of the old 2E ones, but it's nice having a pile of them that players won't instantly know who they are, worship, aims etc just from the colors a church flies. Even if they aren't all added back in, I do have my 2E books for reference. I just hope wizards does reprints so other people who don't have access to all the hotness of 2E is able to obtain it too. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 22:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
New question: What about a Realms product (sourcebook, novel, etc) speaks to you as a "Realms" piece?
Specifically, what is it about the Realms that makes the Realms the Realms?
This is a deeply personal question, so don't give me the answer you think I want to hear or that everyone wants to hear. To you, specifically, what makes the Realms really special?
Cheers
the neverwinter source book, it read like some one was there inhe city ...
all the elminster and drizzt books and the Ed greenwood presents novels..
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 13:54:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
New question: What about a Realms product (sourcebook, novel, etc) speaks to you as a "Realms" piece?
Specifically, what is it about the Realms that makes the Realms the Realms?
This is a deeply personal question, so don't give me the answer you think I want to hear or that everyone wants to hear. To you, specifically, what makes the Realms really special?
Cheers
1) You can find many places were you would like to live if you could live in the realms
2) It is a complex deep lore world with lore continuity and characters (good and bad) having varying gray scale personalities instead of black / white personalities
3) It is a world with logical consistence, that is, there are logical explanations for why a ruin is placed somewhere, why there is a trade route in that location and so forth
That is, it is the opposite of 4e FR |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 16:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaveren
That is, it is the opposite of 4e FR
Ah man! You just have to go there, didn't you?
Remember, this thread is NOT about bashing any particular edition of the Realms. We are talking about ALL the Realms, moving forward in a way that brings everything together in one warm embrace. You might dislike part of the Realms, but that's the way it is with families.
And we Realmsians are like an extended family. Some of us don't see eye to eye even a little bit, but we all have one thing in common, and that's an abiding love for the Realms.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 16:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Ah man! You just have to go there, didn't you?
lol, well, I think the basic problem is.
The kind of FR world there appeals to old fans there are growing older / maturing and has been collecting FR lore for decades are the opposite to the kind of world there would appeal to teenagers there has not yet matured / grown old and has not been collecting FR lore for decades.
There are other major changes. Young people has for instance developed a kind of zap culture compared to older people there wanted to devote time on fewer hobbies. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 16:51:47
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Well, the Realms going forward is specifically trying to embrace everyone. It wraps up all the lore that has come before (good and bad) into one big coherent whole. Sure, there will be weird or even ugly bits, but that's just life, you know?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 17:04:43
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Well, the challenge for wotc, is that wotc will be competing with their previous issued material.
For fans like me will it seem more interesting to make campaigns in pre spellplague times were I can use my existing lore collection and were there is a nostalgia atmosphere.
Since the time jump and spellplague are so major discontinuity events do it seem unlikely that material for the future realms will be of interest for the campaigns made by old fans.
I guess, that creates a problem for the WOTC-bottomline. Many of the old fans did after all buy all FR products from 1e to the arrival of 4e.
I am not angry about it, stuff change, that is part of life, but I believe that WOTC made the wrong business-decision in 2008
They should have gone with 2 campaign worlds
A low complexity lore light campaign world for the teenagers and a high complexity lore heavy campaign world for old fans / collectors there buy the products for nostalgia reasons.
I believe it will be very difficult to make a 5e FR world that satisfy the demands of both types of players to sufficient degree to convince both groups of people to spend money on FR products |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 17:21:04
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One reasons old fans buy roleplaying products;
They remember the good old times spend with their friends in old campaigns when they read descriptions and recognize a lot.
Spellplague + Timejump did have the effect, that either did it nuke the areas they were fond of, or the people they cared about died from old age.
Moving the campaign world forward in time does not sound as a solution. Instead of nostaligia for good old times will it remember the reader, that as they grow older, will the experience old friends dieing from old age, accidents etc. That is something, people want to avoid by trying to convince themselves they are still young by for instance keeping old hobbies alive in order to reexperience their young years. Basically, WOTC are trying to sell the exact opposite of old fans wishes and the old fans react by stopping to buy wotc products. Some go over to competitors (pathfinder) and other accept they have enough roleplaying products or decides they have grown up to such a degree, that roleplaying no longer have a place in their life, that is, they sell their old products. |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 29 Aug 2012 17:37:33 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 18:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@SFD: It's Raymond Swanland.
@Diffan: that's sort of how I look at the deific mergers. Deities are complex.
Also, yes the 4e changes were done in part to explain how magic works differently in 4e. Totally unnecessary, IMO. Rule changes really shouldn't dictate lore changes.
Cheers
Well in regards to the extremely modified spell system in 4E, I think they had no choice but to provide an extreme change of lore. No Vancian casting, many spells now 10 minute long rituals, the loss of known uses of common magic items, the weakening of magic items, and the nerf in power (3E, I can have a 20th level Wizard shoot out several Fireballs, if prepared that way, per day which is what a real mighty Wizard should do. But in 4E a 20th level Wizard can only do Fireball once...twice with Archmage epic destiny...that's just sad) |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 19:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Well in regards to the extremely modified spell system in 4E, I think they had no choice but to provide an extreme change of lore. No Vancian casting, many spells now 10 minute long rituals, the loss of known uses of common magic items, the weakening of magic items, and the nerf in power (3E, I can have a 20th level Wizard shoot out several Fireballs, if prepared that way, per day which is what a real mighty Wizard should do. But in 4E a 20th level Wizard can only do Fireball once...twice with Archmage epic destiny...that's just sad)
Many groups have reacted by sticking with 3.5 or moving to pathfinder or stop playing and just read the old FR products for entertainment once in a while or sell all their old stuff
I believe, that FR will only have a future if it is made rule independent, but I do not think, WOTC can win back the old fans by making a 5e FR. Spellplague + timejump destroyed to much and the new realms are to low in lore compared to the old ones and is having the wrong mood.
WOTC is fooling themselves, if they believe a 5e can solve the problem. Their only chance, is to make the new FR interesting enough for their new fans to be able to convince other teenagers to begin playing in FR.
We old FR players has to be considered permanently lost as customers.
I know it will be a problem for them, that the customers they decided to service, are those there want lore light low complexity games that is probably only buying few campaign sourcebooks compared to us older fans there wanted lore heavy high complexity games, that is, brought many campaign source books, but they have to recognize. It is to late to win back the old customers with initiatives like 5e FR. That is, WOTC can not afford to loose their new fans in a futile attempt to win back the old fans. |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 29 Aug 2012 20:28:39 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
498 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 20:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaveren
I believe, that FR will only have a future if it is made rule independent, but I do not think, WOTC can win back the old fans by making a 5e FR. Spellplague + timejump destroyed to much and the new realms are to low in lore compared to the old ones and is having the wrong mood.
WOTC is fooling themselves, if they believe a 5e can solve the problem. Their only chance, is to make the new FR interesting enough for their new fans to be able to convince other teenagers to begin playing in FR.
We old FR players has to be considered permanently lost as customers.
I have to disagree with you here.
4th Edition FR kept me from subscribing to DDI, and soured me immensely on WotC products. My bona fides (at least here) as a critic of most things WotC/4th Edition are, I would say,quite well-established.
BUT...consider how fast WotC is scrambling to put out the new edition (and not just the Realms, but the whole shebang) when a new incarnation of D&D should have a decade-plus of life to it. 4th Edition had less than four by the time the decision was made.
Whatever other reasons exist, the din was sufficiently (and in my opinion, overwhelmingly) negative, WotC had to sit up and take notice. Look at all the issues that were raised - and look at how most of those issues are being fixed. In fact, apart from one (that being 'old faces' - non-divine personalities), it is my understanding that you could put the new edition side by side with the Old Grey Box and see very little difference.
That, in a word, is cool. And they did it without retcons and they did it without reboots. I did not think for a single blessed moment that they'd have been able to pull it off and not do it in a manner that would torque off all sorts of people, myself included - I was prepared to be disappointed again, because that's what I'd come to expect from WotC.
Imagine my reaction, then, when they brought damn near everything back to the way it was supposed to be, and they had a classy way in which they'd done it. No, it won't be to everyone's tastes, but they did it in a way that's fair. To everyone. And that impressed the *REDACTED* out of me.
Now, I'll definitely be getting Sire Greenwood's home-campaign take on the Realms (I would venture to say a majority of us here in the Keep will), but now, instead of just being content with that, and blowing off any future WotC offerings, I'm actually interested in what they have to show us.
Is it everything I wanted? No. Are all my issues being addressed? Probably not. But it's a hell of a foundation to build on.
I'm old, stubborn, opinionated, and reactionary. I've been a Realms fanboi since the days of Darkwalker on Moonshae and the Old Grey Box, and the 4th Edition Realms made me see all sorts of shades of red and purple. I should naturally fall into your demographic of those WotC should be writing off...but in this case, I'm going to stick it out and see what's coming down the pike. This is one grognard who's going to take a chance that WotC has, in fact, 'gotten it'. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 20:55:54
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| I think you're not understanding WotC's approach. They want you to play in whichever era you want, with whichever rules you choose. The system is being divorced of any setting and vice versa. |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 21:19:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
This is one grognard who's going to take a chance that WotC has, in fact, 'gotten it'.
They will still have lost a large amount of old fans due to the amount of old gaming groups there sold their old FR collections after 4e was issued.
I used to look through those offered in the secondhand market in order to fill out minor holes in my FR collection. That is how i rebuild my collection after the old one burned 11 years ago in a house fire, but it was first 2 years after the fire before i began recreating my collection. It was a feeling that to much lore had been lost in out of print books there burned that i would probably never be able to rebuild the collection. I did eventually succeed and obtain a better one, but it is my experience, that it is very very hard to come back to a campaign setting if you feel you have just lost a huge amount of lore.
Many old fans feel that due to the effects of the spellplague and timejump have they suffered a devastating loss of lore and in some cases did they even sell their FR collections. (there was a huge increase in the secondhand market) |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 21:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I think you're not understanding WotC's approach. They want you to play in whichever era you want, with whichever rules you choose. The system is being divorced of any setting and vice versa.
I will be sceptic until they prove they can deliver results, but, trust is very low in WOTC.
They repeatedly violated one of the core rules of good GM.
If you destroy or threaten something can it create excitement, but if you overdo it, do players / fans loose the ability to establish emotional ties to any part of the campaign / world since they know, the risk is to high, that anything they care for will be destroyed no matter what they do and for arbitrary reasons.
WOTC managed to use increasingly devastating RSE's and the final one (spellplague + timejump) destroyed many old fans ability to feel emotional attachment to the new realms.
To many parts of Faerun has been changed to much that material for 5e for postspellplague posttimejump to have any relevance for the campaigns I want to run prespellplague.
It does not help, that even though i have actually brought the 4e novels, have i been unable to convince myself to read them, since I do not want to be reminded about the destruction of my realms. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 21:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
I should naturally fall into your demographic of those WotC should be writing off...but in this case, I'm going to stick it out and see what's coming down the pike. This is one grognard who's going to take a chance that WotC has, in fact, 'gotten it'.
I'm feeling similar to this. 'Cautiously optimistic, yet guarded' best describes my outlook that WotC could sufficiently provide us with material that I would want to buy again. I freely admit they have an extremely steep road to climb with me, considering the sheer magnitude of material I already own from the past 3 decades could carry me well into the grave, so anything they make now will have to be tremendous or truly Realms original/unique for me to take a look.
If they decide we need yet another incarnation of Red Wizards, Cormyr or a yet again revised Waterdeep and the North, that won't be enough to me. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
Edited by - Varl on 29 Aug 2012 21:40:26 |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2012 : 21:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
so anything they make now will have to be tremendous or truly Realms original/unique for me to take a look.
If they decide we need yet another incarnation of Red Wizards, Cormyr or a yet again revised Waterdeep and the North, that won't be enough to me.
This is one of the reasons I believe it will not work with their intended approach. Support for all ages in the same sourcebook
It is my impression that;
Many of the 4e postspellplague post timejump fans want lore light low complexity while they also have a low lore basis for the realms
and
The prespellplague fans want lore heavy high complexity while they already have a very high lore basis. |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 29 Aug 2012 21:59:55 |
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One Canon, One Story, One Realms (5e) THE SEQUEL
