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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 04:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Yeah, throw another shrimp on the bar-bee, Bruce.
I believe it's "prawns" down south, Rad.  I remember a friend of my sister-in-law stopped into D.C. from Australia, and the two of them decided to go to Outback Steakhouse (which I thought was strange; I don't know how different food is between Australia and the US, but I like eating local foods, usually). She thought it was funny how this "Authentic Australian" resturaunt got things wrong, like calling prawns "shrimp."
As for the .WAVs, I already mentioned it at the start of this topic. They were good to hear, since I am big on proper pronounciation for some things. For instance, I prefer to pronounce "either" as "aye-thur" since "eether" is a gas. I also find some American nasal-intensive pronounciations (Nah-vaeh-da) highly annoying. And then there are words from other languages that get pronounced in American, which I usually find annoying as well.
But for a lot of these, I'm with Lina. There might be "one" way to pronounce these things in the minds of the people who thought of them, but if you're looking for good roleplay, Faerun's a big place. Linguistic shift can happen really fast with English -- witness the United States, which until recently made it obvious where people were born. But Faerun's actually closer to Europe; lots of different languages. People are certainly going to pronounce things differently, and spell them that way.
Linguistics are rather hard for the average American roleplayer to do, of course, but it seems to me that if you're looking for "authenticity" you need to remember that not everyone speaks the same language, even with "Common." After all, Common is a non-technical trade language, something that I'm going to be touching on in my Jack Archer story. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 10:12:04
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That's exactly the interpretation on Realmsian pronounciation that I have been using...Good points Bookwyrm...
As for Realms 'Common', well, I've always seen that as the 'lingua franca' of Faerun, much like the Hausa language in West Africa, or the more commonly known Swahili, which is primarily used in East Africa.
Actually, an interesting historical fact about the term 'lingua franca' is that historically, it referred to a language that was a mixture of Italian, French, Greek, Spanish, and Arabic, used primarily for trading and military purposes.
Oh well, that's enough for the grammar lesson today, back to the topic...
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 17:04:33
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quote:
From the ONLINE ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY
lingua franca - 1678, from It., lit. "Frankish tongue." Originally a form of communication used in the Levant, a stripped-down It. peppered with Spanish, French, Greek, Arabic, and Turkish words. The name is probably from the Ar. custom, dating back to the Crusades, of calling all Europeans Franks.
So, in effect, Common is like lingua franca, since it's mostly one language (Chondathan), but mixed with enough language piracy to make any linguist's head spin. (Hmm . . . kind of like modern English . . . .) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2004 : 07:48:39
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Hmm...my linguistics-Professor friend was close it would seem...Oh well, he did say it had been a long time since he had read up on the term 'lingua franca'.
I wonder though, how much of the many Realms languages actually comprise the basis of 'Common', other than what has already been detailed...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 01:05:27
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| be sure 2 let me know Sage if these WAV files ever make it on2 1 of the less dusty shelves of Candlekeep |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 03:21:17
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| Just go to Wizards'; they have them there. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 12:16:24
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Yes, the Bookwyrm's right Dracandos. Visit the WotC site for those files, I'd provide a link, but I'm not at home at the moment, and therefore don't have access to my web bookmarks...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 16:44:37
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| Meh I could care less when it comes to things like that. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 22:28:22
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Yeah but the people that say tom-ah-toe are wrong...
-Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 02:10:43
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If your interested in all the small details Dracandos... good for you. But as Cult_Leader put it "I could care less." There is no right way, there is not wrong way, there's only my way.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you Sage about what outsiders perceive to be the typical Aussie. They seem to think were all like Crocodile Dundee or something like that. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 16:33:30
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| aye thank u scribes 4 the assistance and the finger pointed 2 the WotC site 4 the sound files |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2004 : 03:44:11
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| Yeah Sage, I know what you mean. When others think that all Aussies are laid back, slobs it's frustrating. Not that it worries me too much since I'm a converted Aussie. But we Aussies are a hard working lot aren't we Sage. You'd be surprised how people react to that last statement. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 00:51:06
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| Ah, I'm Shocked! I thought all you did was throw prawns on the barby...... (No offense meant. Just humor.) |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 00:55:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lina
Here's a tip for you all... pronounce it as you like coz in the end does it really matter? DOES IT REALLY?
Take for example the English language. It's just one language right? Wrong! There's heaps of people that speak the english language differently according to the country of origin. There's Aussie slang & accent, American slang & accent, British accent... well you get the picture. The same goes with names in Faerun. You might say "TO-MA-TO" and me "TO-MAE-TO" but it still means the same thing.
Oh, don't get me started on 'Aussie slang/accent' . It's one of the most embarassing qualities our society here in Australia has, at least to me. It annoys me a great deal when international visitors first impression of Australia comes from a thong-wearing, bear-drinking, slang-talking 'Aussie' whose first words are "G'day mate..." ...Just what exactly does that mean...
Can't help it if we got ruined by "Crocodile Dundee"..... And I won't even go in Steve Irwin.
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Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 02:58:39
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Dundee wasn't that bad. He was supposed to be from Nowhere, Australia. Earwig -- er, I mean Erwin  -- has no such excuse.
Besides, no one should be that cheerful all the time. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 13:20:55
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Be glad you live in the US and you only have to see him momentarily. It's bad enough having his face pasted over nearly all forms of media here in Australia...I can't help but think..."That smile can't be real..."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 18:01:56
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Was it only me, or did anyone else see the movie clip with Erwin's son in his hands while "The Crocodile Hunter" was feeding a live crocodile? Doesn't that count as some violation of law??? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 23:30:26
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| You might like this, then. And this also has a few as well -- especially the last one. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 00:30:02
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| Haha! Excellent movies, Bookwyrm! Really brought out his good side..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 16:41:53
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Yes, of course. I do appologise.
Just to jump-start it, why aren't there different dialects of racial (elven, halfling, gnomish, etc.) languages? At the very least, you'd think the green elves would speak differently than their city-dwelling cousins. As it is, though, I can only find mention of a different language for sea elves, and that's only in a novel. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 22:25:09
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| There is. You'll find in the Return of the Archwizards Trilogy that the wood elves speak a bit differently from the golds and the moons, but not overly indistinguisable. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 03:06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Yes, of course. I do appologise.
Just to jump-start it, why aren't there different dialects of racial (elven, halfling, gnomish, etc.) languages? At the very least, you'd think the green elves would speak differently than their city-dwelling cousins. As it is, though, I can only find mention of a different language for sea elves, and that's only in a novel.
Yes, Shadowlord is right. I also believe there are at least three (two of which are not in current usage) differing forms of the gnomish racial dialect.
One of the earlier 2e FR adventures mentioned that fact, although I've not read anything about it in 3e. IIRC there was a stone language, strict in form, with very many different combinations. There was also a symbolic/runic form which had a symbol for nearly every word in the gnomish vocabulary, and the third is the ever evolving current gnomish tongue which I believe is mentioned in the Races of Faerun tome in regards to the gem-hunting ancestors of the gnomes.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sirine
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 14:28:16
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| I dunno if this is the right place to post this question, but does anyone have any thoughts about how the racial nametraits came about? |
Cheers, everyone! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 03:00:16
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I'm not sure I know to what you are referring Sirine...Are you talking about the various racial naming traditions, or the various ways in which each race assigns a name to their young...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 16:33:42
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| No, what I meant was why do members of the same (non-human, anyway) race speak the same or similar language as everyone else of that race in the setting? And yet there are so many different "human" languages? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Sirine
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 19:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not sure I know to what you are referring Sirine...Are you talking about the various racial naming traditions, or the various ways in which each race assigns a name to their young...?
Both would work, actually, if you know. |
Cheers, everyone! |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 05:08:57
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Hmm, I just looked at my Faiths and Pantheons Tome and have been ashamed to say I've been pronouncing a greater deity's name wrong.
Sune is pronounced Soo-nee, not Soon, as I have been saying it. Has anyone else made this mistake? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Pronounciations of things in the Realms
