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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
 Posted - 16 May 2004 : 16:21:10
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Can anyone tell me any more about this Archmage of Tethyr? She was chosen as a representation of the Archmage prestige class in the FRCS, so i assume she's somewhat important in the Realms but i have to confess i know nothing of her.
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Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2004 : 20:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Can anyone tell me any more about this Archmage of Tethyr? She was chosen as a representation of the Archmage prestige class in the FRCS, so i assume she's somewhat important in the Realms but i have to confess i know nothing of her.
All the current info on her comes from LANDS OF INTRIGUE, though when I was researching it, I found her first mentioned all the way back in the Old Grey Box (i.e. the first FRCS in 1987).
Oh, and in a mental update that isn't canonical but is in my mind, Perendra finally did get around to marrying Zelphar Thann, and a baby is due any day now... :)
Steven
Who doesn't know what WOTC has planned for Tethyr, so he'll keep playing with it on the sidelines, thankyouverymuch :D |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2004 : 20:54:12
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Yes, one of the 75-odd NPCs written up in FR0D -- a better list of core Realms (Inner Sea) characters than any since -- I regret that half of them are unknown to new Realms readers, but at the same time not having recent updates and 3E stats makes them no less vital for me.
The other source on Perendra is the "Elminster Speaks" writeup of Voonlar. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 May 2004 20:54:33 |
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 09:32:45
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Thanks very much guys, i downloaded Lands of Intrigue and took a peek at Perendra's section in Ed's Voonlar articles. There's a whole host of good stuff to be found there.
And Lands of Intrigue is massive! I never realised how jammed full of goodies it was! |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 16:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Thanks very much guys, i downloaded Lands of Intrigue and took a peek at Perendra's section in Ed's Voonlar articles. There's a whole host of good stuff to be found there.
And Lands of Intrigue is massive! I never realised how jammed full of goodies it was!
And it put Timoth, Onyx, and Vajra from the comics into an official source. This I liked very much. |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2004 : 16:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Can anyone tell me any more about this Archmage of Tethyr? She was chosen as a representation of the Archmage prestige class in the FRCS, so i assume she's somewhat important in the Realms but i have to confess i know nothing of her.
All the current info on her comes from LANDS OF INTRIGUE, though when I was researching it, I found her first mentioned all the way back in the Old Grey Box (i.e. the first FRCS in 1987).
Oh, and in a mental update that isn't canonical but is in my mind, Perendra finally did get around to marrying Zelphar Thann, and a baby is due any day now... :)
Steven
Who doesn't know what WOTC has planned for Tethyr, so he'll keep playing with it on the sidelines, thankyouverymuch :D
 Whilst I would never question the canonity of Steven Schend's words, normally, I must point out that pregnancy isn't often done by the dead! In the Elminster Speaks column, El clearly speaks of Perendra as dead. May I suggest that the baby came a little earlier ( ), maybe she died just after having it? |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 02:20:02
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[quote Whilst I would never question the canonity of Steven Schend's words, normally, I must point out that pregnancy isn't often done by the dead! In the Elminster Speaks column, El clearly speaks of Perendra as dead. May I suggest that the baby came a little earlier (), maybe she died just after having it?
[/quote]
Hmmm.... Well, I don't know about Ed, and I'll obviously defer to him in all things Realmsian...
What I wrote on Perendra and LOI I wrote during the rough time while TSR teetered on the brink and we were possibly being purchased by WotC (a rumor that turned out to be true). I finished it out in Washington and it came out in 1997.
If Ed wrote something else re: Perendra that postdates LOI, it's news to me. If the article predates LOI, then it's a big Whoops that we missed during the design. Funny he didn't mention anything about this when I sent him the manuscript. <shrug>
Here's my guess--regardless of the timing of the article, what if Perendra faked her death or actually did die and Khelben & Lhaeo resurrected her with Mystra's (and M's church's) blessing to help as the Vizera? Like Lhaeo/Haedrak, she has reasons to hide her continued existence and where she hid during the Tethyr Interregnum....
In any case, this is a good example of how tangled some FR stuff can get, and I'll bounce this info by Ed and see if we can't get an answer..... 
Steven
Who really wants to marry P off to Zelphar so Lady Cassandra Thann has a daughter-in-law who won't cower at the merest sign of displeasure (since Arilyn isn't a daughter-in-law technically) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 20:12:53
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Ooh. A mystery.
Well, personally, I too wish Perendra burgeoning life and a daughter (if only to add to the Arunsun/Thann family tree). But the article has Elminster speaking of Perendra as a (long-)dead friend, whom he missed. Not as though she had been ressurected. Of course - it is possible she is a different mage named Perendra.
Here's the article - with no mention of date, though it was still during 2e I believe: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20020109es.
I'll also ask Ed, via his thread on this site. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 19 May 2004 20:14:04 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 02:05:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Ooh. A mystery.
Well, personally, I too wish Perendra burgeoning life and a daughter (if only to add to the Arunsun/Thann family tree). But the article has Elminster speaking of Perendra as a (long-)dead friend, whom he missed. Not as though she had been ressurected. Of course - it is possible she is a different mage named Perendra.
Here's the article - with no mention of date, though it was still during 2e I believe: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20020109es.
I'll also ask Ed, via his thread on this site.
Well, I e-spoke with the Grizzled Northern Man-Bear of a Sage, and we agreed that the Perendras are one and the same. Here's the gist of it...
[Ed's comments to my query on this]
Perendra's death was a TSR plot thing, not my decision at all, and occurred fairly early on in the unfolding publishing of the Realms (Curse of the Azure Bonds? Pool of Radiance?) That vintage, anyway, but I can't now remember just which project, or why, and I never wanted her killed off before I could develop her as a supporting character. So I guess she escaped, or was raised by someone else (AFAIR, she's too low level to have a clone). What say?
[My response, to which he responded with hearty glee and approvals]
Easy enough for her to either fake her own death early on (or have had an enemy she wrapped in an illusion to look like her, who happened to die in her stead).
What about this? What if we set her notoriety up as the gossiped name of Perendra Three-Lives? She allegedly died early on in Voonlar (an illusioned foe and she went into hiding); she then died again just before Khelben and Lhaeo/Haedrak came to Voonlar seeking her to restore the honorable post of the Tethyrian Court Vizera, and they had her resurrected by priests of Mystra to serve Tethyr and Mystra? She's now on her "third" life down in Tethyr, and I'd really like to say (as per 1372) that she's married Zelphar Thann and they have a baby due any day now.
Wonder why we didn't catch this (or any fans catch this) way back when the drafts of LOI were floating about? At least I don't remember anyone telling me she was dead at that time, and I had gone digging for ANY Tethyrians outside of Tethyr to return to it.
So there's Ed's and my answer on this conundrum. And for those who wonder re: the illos, Perendra and Gamalon are depicted in LOI Tethyr p9.
Steven
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 02:22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Well, personally, I too wish Perendra burgeoning life and a daughter (if only to add to the Arunsun/Thann family tree).
Hmmm....the Arunsun family tree, eh?
For reasons unknown even to me, I've been working on that off and on over the years.
All I'll say right now is that Khelben "the Blackstaff" Arunsun (at least in my mind, if not in official Realms canon) has survived the following relations:
5 wives (his 6th still being the illustrious Laeral)
8 daughters (one of whom bore the title of the Witch-Queen of the North long after Laeral created it)
2 sons (Zelphar is Lady Cassandra's father as well as the fictional father of Khelben's current identity; the earlier son, never mentioned before in Realmslore, I hope to get published when I finish some scribblings about the City of the Dead and the Tomb of the Trollscourge)
7 granddaughters
7 grandsons
6 great-granddaughters
8 great-grandsons
9 great-great-granddaughters
11 great-great-grandsons
and at least a dozen more I've worked out just for idle curiosity...
Get the idea?
Oh, and just to tease your interests, there are at least 25 blood relatives of Khelben's in the City of Splendors itself (but only those of the Thann clan know they share blood with the Blackstaff):
Lady Cassandra Thann (grand-daughter), seven out of nine of her brood (Danilo and Zelphar being those great-grandsons), and 15 grandchildren (or Khelben's great-grandchildren);
Lara Idogyr of Waterdeep's HOuse of Wonder (great-great-grand-daughter)
Carolyas Idogyr, older sister of Lara and a member of Khelben's Force Grey (great-great-grand-daughter)
I suppose this should have become a different thread, but I'm too lazy to either copy or move it without fears of deleting all.
Even so, hope it sparks some ideas for y'all....
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 04:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Hmmm....the Arunsun family tree, eh?
A focused Realms fan could have fun with a genealogical program and the information you provided here.
quote:
2 sons (Zelphar is Lady Cassandra's father as well as the fictional father of Khelben's current identity; the earlier son, never mentioned before in Realmslore, I hope to get published when I finish some scribblings about the City of the Dead and the Tomb of the Trollscourge)
Published? As in via a web article at WOTC's site? Dragon Magazine?
quote:
Even so, hope it sparks some ideas for y'all....
Thank you for a very interesting post to read. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 09:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Hmmm....the Arunsun family tree, eh?
For reasons unknown even to me, I've been working on that off and on over the years.
All I'll say right now is that Khelben "the Blackstaff" Arunsun (at least in my mind, if not in official Realms canon) has survived the following relations:
5 wives (his 6th still being the illustrious Laeral)
8 daughters (one of whom bore the title of the Witch-Queen of the North long after Laeral created it)
2 sons (Zelphar is Lady Cassandra's father as well as the fictional father of Khelben's current identity; the earlier son, never mentioned before in Realmslore, I hope to get published when I finish some scribblings about the City of the Dead and the Tomb of the Trollscourge)
7 granddaughters
7 grandsons
6 great-granddaughters
8 great-grandsons
9 great-great-granddaughters
11 great-great-grandsons
and at least a dozen more I've worked out just for idle curiosity...
Get the idea?
Oh, and just to tease your interests, there are at least 25 blood relatives of Khelben's in the City of Splendors itself (but only those of the Thann clan know they share blood with the Blackstaff):
Lady Cassandra Thann (grand-daughter), seven out of nine of her brood (Danilo and Zelphar being those great-grandsons), and 15 grandchildren (or Khelben's great-grandchildren);
Lara Idogyr of Waterdeep's HOuse of Wonder (great-great-grand-daughter)
Carolyas Idogyr, older sister of Lara and a member of Khelben's Force Grey (great-great-grand-daughter)
I suppose this should have become a different thread, but I'm too lazy to either copy or move it without fears of deleting all.
Even so, hope it sparks some ideas for y'all....
Steven
Lara Idogyr? Is this the same "little Lara" Gamalon Idogyr mentioned in his letter to Elminster, in that long-ago Bazaar of the Bizarre article on Spelljammer goodies?
If so, how, exactly, are the Idogyrs related to Khelben? And does Gamalon know of this relationship to the Blackstaff?
Tomb of the Trollscourge? When will we see more info on this? |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 14:46:10
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Well met again Mr. Schend!
An intriguing answer, if ever there was one (it seems that your lines of communication with Mr. Greenwood are faster than those here at Candlekeep - as I should have expected! ).
However, to properly wrap this up, I must enquire about Elminster's wording, in the article that mentions her death:
"It concerns the mage Perendra, with whom (before her unfortunate demise) I was wont to share occasional afternoons. We spent them smoking pipes and draining handy tankards as we talked over those dread secrets wizards discuss in private (such as how prices are rising everywhere and things growing darker and grimmer over all Faerûn, how the weather disappoints but is nothing compared to its legendary misbehaviors in our youth, the rarity of good rulers everywhere compared to those same long-ago glory days, and other matters that are, like those I've mentioned, only of interest to mages). I miss the lass, I do . . . but then, at my age, I could fill several good-sized kingdoms with departed friends whom I miss dearly."
I would assume that El knows all the happenings of his friends, and would know of Perendra's two ressurrections, and would still be in contact with her, so why is he telling the reader he misses her?
Is he trying to keep it a secret or something? Or am I reading too much into this and should just leave it at: "What matters is Perendra IS alive, El will have his reasons for the comment."?
*****
As for the Arunsun/Thann family tree: I was just working from this - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/eb-thann.htm.
Seems that might not quite cover the whole family tree! 
The reason I am (probably was, now that I know the extent!) doing an Arunsun family tree was because of a homebrew NPC I am fleshing out - Essthel Maerdrym, a moon elf Lythari, great-grandson of Yrneha Maerdrym (from the Fall of Myth Drannor), whose grandfather (son of Yrneha) was one of the few who escape the city's fall, becoming a lythari in order to forget the waste.
I had just finished researching all the Maerdryms of Myth Drannor mentioned (in Fall and Cormanthyr) - and putting them into a family tree, when I read about Arun Maerdrym and a certain Nameless Chosen son. I think I'll stick to the Maerdryms, and leave the Arunsun off-shoot to you! |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 21 May 2004 14:51:20 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 19:28:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lara Idogyr? Is this the same "little Lara" Gamalon Idogyr mentioned in his letter to Elminster, in that long-ago Bazaar of the Bizarre article on Spelljammer goodies?
If so, how, exactly, are the Idogyrs related to Khelben? And does Gamalon know of this relationship to the Blackstaff?
Tomb of the Trollscourge? When will we see more info on this?
Um, sorry Wooly. Two different Laras and it's entirely my fault. I slipped Lara Idogyr of FOrce Grey into CITY OF SPLENDORS in 1993, and at the time, I'd intended her to be Gamalon Idogyr's daughter.
However, when I wrote Lands of Intrigue, I put Lara (now married to Arn Gyrfalcon) down in Tethyr with him, forgetting about the two Idogyrs I'd placed in Waterdeep.
Here're my notes on the two Laras. And my apologies--the two Idogyr sisters know of distant blood relations to the Blackstaff (see below).
Lara Idogyr (1344-now); daughter of Kessal Idogyr (older brother of Gamalon) and member of Force Grey; City of Splendors Campaign Guide p73 (LG hef W7; since 1367, add 5 levels of prestige or other classes). She’s also a half-elf which means Mom has to be an elf. Smuggled out of Tethyr by her aunt Trisata Idogyr during the Black Days and hidden/raised in Silverymoon for most of her life.
Lara Idogyr-Gyrfalcon
(1346-now) (CG hf W10); Lara is her father’s favorite, but she’s the best diplomat and peace-keeper in the family. Her husband is former adventurer Arn Gyrfalcon (1339-now) (NG hm R13); both of them act as chatelains of Spellshire while Gamalon is away and avenging his wife’s death. Lara is the heir presumptive of County Spellshire.
And before the questions get asked, Lara & Carolyas both refused Prince Haedrak's requests to join the Reclamation Army in Waterdeep and that was when they first met their uncle Gamalon, who in good faith assumed the title of Count of Spellshire even though their birthrights would allow them the titles before him.
As for Gamalon's tie to Khelben, he thinks that they are distant cousins, as he believes the Blackstaff is the son of Zelphar (son of Khelben the Elder). Gamalon's the grandson of Kessydra Arunsun, daughter of Khelben Arunsun the Elder (see the notes on Bloody Kerrigan the Traitor Lord in COS, as she's one of two daughters); thus, Gamalon assumes both he and Blackstaff are grandsons of Khelben the Elder with Gamalon one generation removed (i.e. great-grandson).
As for the Trollscourge, well, it's been hanging for a while. Might as well share some impromptu lore with y'all and note that it's all unofficial until I can publish this in Dragon or somewhere under a WotC trademark.
Sarael "the Trollscourge" Arunsun
(1112-1150) [NG hm F8] A warrior of some repute, arael “Trollscourge” falls in a troll ambush outside of Thundertree within the Neverwinter Woods.. All that is left is for Khelben to mourn his son, and he is buried within Waterdeep’s City of the Dead within a tenday of his death (Construction on Arunsun Tower halts for a full two tendays to move the workmen to construct a mausoleum for his son. It’s found directly inside the City of the Dead just off Mhalsymber’s Way and the northernmost mausoleum herein. A striking tomb of blue marble, it’s topped with an adamantine statue—an exact likeness of the Trollscourge, his trademark two axes held high.).
By the by, Sarael's got a twin sister who married Hamiklar Wands, but she's not the mother of Maskar Wands as she died before "the old Ham" married Maskar's mother. HOw's THAT for messing with heads? 
Steven
Muddying the waters thoroughly now. |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 19:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Well met again Mr. Schend!
An intriguing answer, if ever there was one (it seems that your lines of communication with Mr. Greenwood are faster than those here at Candlekeep - as I should have expected! ).
However, to properly wrap this up, I must enquire about Elminster's wording, in the article that mentions her death:
"It concerns the mage Perendra, with whom (before her unfortunate demise) I was wont to share occasional afternoons. We spent them smoking pipes and draining handy tankards as we talked over those dread secrets wizards discuss in private (such as how prices are rising everywhere and things growing darker and grimmer over all Faerûn, how the weather disappoints but is nothing compared to its legendary misbehaviors in our youth, the rarity of good rulers everywhere compared to those same long-ago glory days, and other matters that are, like those I've mentioned, only of interest to mages). I miss the lass, I do . . . but then, at my age, I could fill several good-sized kingdoms with departed friends whom I miss dearly."
I would assume that El knows all the happenings of his friends, and would know of Perendra's two ressurrections, and would still be in contact with her, so why is he telling the reader he misses her?
Is he trying to keep it a secret or something? Or am I reading too much into this and should just leave it at: "What matters is Perendra IS alive, El will have his reasons for the comment."?
Elminster misses a lot of people, and not just because they're dead. If you were as busy as he was, you might get half a chance to see 10% of those you call friends on a vastly irregular basis.
Also, you hit the nail on the head re: keeping secrets. ELminster is (much to Khelben's chagrin) the master at misdirection and obfuscation of truths. He knows full well that Perendra is alive and well, though he can still mourn her death(s) while not admitting knowledge of her resurrection. He lets most assume that there are two or more Perendras (as it is a common Tethyrian name, and the Raslemtars are a populous family) and just nods and smiles and goes off on other tangents to avoid directly answering questions.
quote:
*****
As for the Arunsun/Thann family tree: I was just working from this - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/eb-thann.htm.
Seems that might not quite cover the whole family tree!
The reason I am (probably was, now that I know the extent!) doing an Arunsun family tree was because of a homebrew NPC I am fleshing out - Essthel Maerdrym, a moon elf Lythari, great-grandson of Yrneha Maerdrym (from the Fall of Myth Drannor), whose grandfather (son of Yrneha) was one of the few who escape the city's fall, becoming a lythari in order to forget the waste.
I had just finished researching all the Maerdryms of Myth Drannor mentioned (in Fall and Cormanthyr) - and putting them into a family tree, when I read about Arun Maerdrym and a certain Nameless Chosen son. I think I'll stick to the Maerdryms, and leave the Arunsun off-shoot to you!
Wow. I'd love to see the work you've done for the Maerdryms, as that's harder to keep notes on and track all that. I believe there's one slight hint I put in Sea of Fallen Stars to follow up on the Maerdryms.
The head of the Order of Numos (the White Dukars) is a Maerdrym, a baelnorn of pearl named Lashyrr Maerdrym. She's a direct cousin of Khelben's, though they've not seen each other since long before the Fall of Myth Drannor. She's in the NPC section of SOFS.
Good luck with all this, and hope that the answers help rather than hinder any plans you have for your games.
Steven
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 20:39:34
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Thanks very much for the confirmation of El's reasons behind that comment. And thanks again for the general information sort out regarding Perendra.
***
As for the Maerdryms - I had only checked the Cormathyr and Fall of Myth Drannor, pieced together how the mentioned Maerdyms could be related and filled in the rest realistically. I would show you it - but I don't believe I'm anywhere near finished, but I will show you when I do finish it (too many Realmslore projects to finish! Stupid exams getting in the way! )
I don't have Sea of Fallen Stars and must confess to not knowing which product SOFS is or what the White Dukars are. If it's 2e, no doubt I don't have it. However I am very interested to hear of a surviving Maerdrym.
Could you tell me more of both the Sea of Fallen Stars ref. and Lashyrr?
Thanks again |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2018 : 16:12:48
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Learned Scribe Hoan,
As a follow up to this, here is a compiled listing of all the Archmages known references:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Perendra_Raslemtar
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Can anyone tell me any more about this Archmage of Tethyr? She was chosen as a representation of the Archmage prestige class in the FRCS, so i assume she's somewhat important in the Realms but i have to confess i know nothing of her.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Perendra Raslemtar
