| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 17:13:23
|
I just remembered those big threads on the wizards.com novel boards where entrants to the contest discussed it and each others' work. Some of the posters visibly had no enthusiasm for the Realms (and rarely even showed distaste), either had hardly bothered with research or were asking others to do it for them. They were either frank or just transparent about it just being a job for them, a possible career boost. Not that longtime Realms knowledge is required to write there, but if you try but don't really immerse yourself in the Realms (as Elaine Cunningham did) you'll produce the worst of what shared-world work-for-hire can be: mere unenthusiastic interchangeable product with the most superficial ties to the setting and its lovingly made web of lore and meaning.
Of course many more respondents there this doesn't apply to at all, and I'm not including anyone who currently posts here in the above category. I just felt like saying this, since I held off before for not wanting to spoil other people's threads and fun.
|
|
|
Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 18:14:56
|
I'll be honest that I was not a big fan of the Realms prior to entering the MoP open call. I considered the campaign setting to be nothing more than a stomping ground for munchkins and had only played the old SSI crpgs set around the Moonsea and the Dalelands. To me, this was a chance to get published, to have a book under my belt when it came time to market my own work.
Then I started reading the source material. As I researched the regions available to use, I discovered the richness and depth of the Realms. It was fertile soil from which countless stories could grow.
As a DM and storyteller, it is hard not to respect the creativity that went into building this world. I've been converted. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
Edited by - Kameron M. Franklin on 30 Jun 2004 20:50:42 |
 |
|
|
dbassingthwaite
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
64 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 19:28:18
|
I'll second that, Kameron - my appreciation for Forgotten Realms really grew when I started doing research for The Yellow Silk. I really like the tremendous depth of history that has built up.
Don |
Don Bassingthwaite
www.sff.net/people/dbassing |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 19:37:09
|
It's certainly good, at least potentially, to get people working in the Realms who wouldn't have gravitated to it otherwise. Kameron, the munchkin idea seems to me entirely an Internet meme unconnected with the published setting -- whose spirit couldn't be further from that -- so I'm curious where you got that impression. (I don't know if I should ask which novels didn't impress you!)
And it's constructive that you guys are working to connect with the existing Realms readers, both for the setting and for you selfishly (which doesn't mean I think you're being selfish or cynical). |
|
|
|
Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 20:53:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Kameron, the munchkin idea seems to me entirely an Internet meme unconnected with the published setting -- whose spirit couldn't be further from that -- so I'm curious where you got that impression.
It came mostly from the styles of games I knew of or heard talked about by friends that were being played in FR. Of course, as I matured as DM, I realized that the settings are what you make of them. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 21:22:38
|
The MoP discussion thread highlighted a number of misconceptions held by many aspiring writers. Since there's another open call going on, it might be worth listing a few things to avoid.
- Dissing the setting in the publisher's official web forums. Not only is this bad form, it's also incredibly stupid. Hello, folks--the WotC editors read those forums. So do game designers, other publishers, and established writers. Being arrogant and dismissive on a public forum is not conducive to building a writing career.
- Complaining about the response time, before and after the editors go over the stated date. Reviewing submissions is a time-consuming process, and must be done in addition to the editor's regular tasks. An open call frequently generates a response that far exceeds expectations.
- Frequent calls or emails to editors when the response goes beyond the predicted time. Not a good habit to get into.
- Complaining that a form rejection letter is "unprofessional." You're more likely to receive a form letter than a personalized response. An editor who must deal with hundreds of stories for each one he publishes doesn't have enough hours in the day to respond personally to each person who submits a story.
- Expressing a sense of entitlement; i.e., "I spent a lot of time on this, and the least they could do was write a personalized response with a detailed critique of my work and suggestions on how I could improve." Basic rules of business apply, folks. Writers create a product, which they attempt to sell to the customers--in this case, the publisher. In most transactions, the customer is not obligated to respond AT ALL unless he wishes to purchase the offered product. You as a customer are not expected to respond to every telemarketer, spam email, and snail mail flyer with a detailed critique of the product and presentation, a lengthy explanation of why you declined to purchase the offered product, and suggestions for improvement. There simply isn't enough time for you to do all of that and still go about your business. Same goes for editors.
- Confusing publishers with writing teachers. See above. Don't expect lengthy critiques and suggestions for improvement. Once in a while you'll get a detailed response. When that occurs, write a thank-you note immediately, because the editor has gone above and beyond.
- Complaining that the desired personalized response would "only take fifteen minutes" suggests that one is so egocentric as to lack perspective.(And frankly, I think fifteen minutes is underestimating.) A moment's thought should lead one to realize that five hundred fifteen-minute intervals equals 125 hours--three work weeks, or one full week's work for three people.
These are the points I recall. I'm certain Farraer could make other suggestions, were he so inclined.
|
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 01 Jul 2004 01:08:47 |
|
|
|
Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2004 : 23:05:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
The MoP discussion thread highlighted a number of misconceptions held by many aspiring writers. Since there's another open call going on, it might be worth listing a few things to avoid.
- Dissing the setting in the publisher's official web forums. Not only is this bad form, it's also incredibly stupid. Hello, folks--the WotC editors read those forums. So do game designers, other publishers, and established writers. Being arrogant and dismissive on a public forum is not conducive to building a writing career.
Guilty.  It's hard to keep the fan/player/DM inside of me quiet, sometimes. I'm learning, though.  |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
Edited by - Kameron M. Franklin on 30 Jun 2004 23:06:41 |
|
|
|
Feiht
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 01:12:03
|
| Kameron, i just got my copy of Lady of Poison. Did you get a copy yet? And if so, what was it like to see your name in the book? |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 02:41:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Feiht
Kameron, i just got my copy of Lady of Poison. Did you get a copy yet? And if so, what was it like to see your name in the book?
Guess Aluandos going to have to create an Ask Bruce Cordell thread now  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 10:58:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by dbassingthwaite
I'll second that, Kameron - my appreciation for Forgotten Realms really grew when I started doing research for The Yellow Silk. I really like the tremendous depth of history that has built up.
Don
I'll third the sentiment: my MoP proposal was my very first introduction to the Realms. Between researching that and my subsequent work, I'm hooked. I don't think it's a bad idea at all to draw in writers from outside the traditional Realms sphere. It helps bring in fresh perspectives and ideas. In fact, I'm guessing WotC was quite pleased with how the MoP open call went in terms of a recruiting call, and that's a big reason why they've chosen to go this route again. |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 12:33:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zyx
I don't think it's a bad idea at all to draw in writers from outside the traditional Realms sphere. It helps bring in fresh perspectives and ideas. In fact, I'm guessing WotC was quite pleased with how the MoP open call went in terms of a recruiting call, and that's a big reason why they've chosen to go this route again.
TSR/WotC has a history of seeking out new writers, and I think this is a great idea. As Farraer pointed out, a long-term relationship with the Realms isn't really necessary; in fact, these days, it's not always possible. The "old gray boxed set" came out in 1987, and articles about the Forgotten Realms appeared in magazines for quite some time before that. It's not reasonable to expect that incoming writers have a 20-year history with the Realms. What's important is respect and affection for the setting, an attention to detail, and the flexibility needed to work in a shared world.
From what I've heard, the editors were pleased with the number of high-quality submissions they received. Phil Athans was also impressed that a number of MoP contestants wrote and submitted a story for the dragon anthology on spec. That show of initiative no doubt contributed to the decision to print a second RoD anthology to showcase new writers.
Tastes, styles, and sensibilities change, which is another reason to seek out new writers and artists. It's important to understand the audience and the marketplace, and bringing in people who share the interests and attitudes of the readership is a very smart move. There are, of course, some established writers who manage to make and maintain this connection--Bob Salvatore, for example, knows his audience extremely well. He manages to capture the pace and visual appeal of television, movies, and video games, which is one reason why his books are so appealing and accessible to a wide range of readers.
|
|
|
|
Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 17:30:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Feiht
Kameron, i just got my copy of Lady of Poison. Did you get a copy yet? And if so, what was it like to see your name in the book?
I haven't yet, though I have heard from others it is also listed in the back of Lisa Smedman's Yuan-ti trilogy. I'll probably try to pick up a copy of Lady of Poison this weekend, though more for an interest to see how the other authors in the series are treating their cleric characters. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
|
|
|
Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 19:37:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
The MoP discussion thread highlighted a number of misconceptions held by many aspiring writers. Since there's another open call going on, it might be worth listing a few things to avoid.
[list][*]Dissing the setting in the publisher's official web forums. Not only is this bad form, it's also incredibly stupid.
I agree. Participating in an open call means you are bidding to become part of a circle of authors. You should therefore view them as potential future colleagues, and behave accordingly. I cannot imagine how hurt I would be if I found one of my fellow authors laying into my work on a forum such as this. To have reservations about another artist's work is only natural; to express those reservations to all and sundry is unfair.
To relate this to the Phil Athans thread, I cannot comprehend why someone would be rude and dismissive of another person's work like that. Surely people realize that art is subjective, and that their words are incredibly hurtful. What could possibly motivate a person to make wholly negative remarks when they know those remarks are being read by the target of their bilious diatribe? I suppose some people only feel important by trying to make others feel small...
Don't worry, Phil! We love you!!! 
On the subject of writing on spec, I think it's kind of funny that Phil would be surprised so many of us went for it. Personally, it never occurred to me not to make the effort simply because there was a chance it wouldn't get chosen. For those of us who are serious about a writing career, writing on spec is nothing new. Most of us write entire novels in the hopes they will be bought, but with no guarantees at all. It's much easier to write 5,000 words on spec than 90K! That's what I find hard to understand about those people who can't be bothered to put together a proposal for this most recent open call. It's a one page synopsis and 10 page writing sample! Try cranking out a 140K book that will probably never be sold! Such is the lot of many, many writers of fiction. |
Edited by - Erin Tettensor on 01 Jul 2004 22:05:52 |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:02:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zyx
To relate this to the Phil Athans thread, I cannot comprehend why someone would be rude and dismissive of another person's work like that. Surely people realize that art is subjective, and that their words are incredibly hurtful. What could possibly motivate a person to make wholly negative remarks when they know those remarks are being read by the target of their bilious diatribe?
I've run into a lot of people who take pride in "speaking their minds," and will brag that their negative and rude comments establish them as being a cut above "brown-nosing fanboys."
Also, our society, on and off the Internet, has come to believe in the utter sanctity of the Opinion. The proliferation of opinion polls has led people to believe that their thoughts, even on matters about which they know nothing, are of great intrinsic value. "Opinion" also serves as a catch-all excuse, enabling people to, for example, accuse writers of plagerism and, when called on it, self-righteousnessly proclaim, "Well, that's just my Opinion."
No, I didn't remember to take my vitamin B this morning, and yes, all of the above is a tad grouchy, but it's also an accurate reflection of life as a shared-world writer. The sharing is one of the best parts of this job, but it can also be one of the most trying.
The ability to interact with so many readers is terrific, and as this Candlekeep forum proves, a lot of writers take advantage of it, and it can, in fact, be a positive and interesting exchange. But when it goes wrong, it can be a huge drain of psychic and creative energy. When other professionals get into the game, a LOT of damage can be done.
::anecdote deleted:: |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Jul 2004 04:37:26 |
|
|
|
Tethtoril
Seeker
95 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:20:18
|
quote:
Bottom line: as members of a team, your comments and conduct can have a profound effect on your readers AND your colleagues.
Ahhh, Lady Elaine ... I remember that particular nasty bout. I am sorry it had to happen.  Rest assured we do try to prevent that from happening in this forum. And I am pleased we have so many vibrant authors who DO participate regularly.
But you bring a good point. Hence why, despite numerous requests for myself or Alaundo to comment directly within threads ... we do not. Though I do have an alter-ego that reads this forum and may pop in once in a great moon.
I encourage everyone to take the advice of the authors who have posted to this scroll. And remember to have fun ... if you don't enjoy your writing what makes you think others will enjoy reading it?  |
Tethtoril
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Tethtoril on 01 Jul 2004 22:21:01 |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:23:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zyx
On the subject of writing on spec, I think it's kind of funny that Phil would be surprised so many of us went for it. Personally, it never occurred to me not to make the effort simply because there was a chance it wouldn't get chosen. For those of us who are serious about a writing career, writing on spec is nothing new. Most of us write entire novels in the hopes they will be bought, but with no guarantees at all. It's much easier to write 5,000 words on spec than 90K! That's what I find hard to understand about those people who can't be bothered to put together a proposal for this most recent open call. It's a one page synopsis and 10 page writing sample! Try cranking out a 140K book that will probably never be sold! Such is the lot of many, many writers of fiction.
The key, Zyx, is that you're serious about writing. Phil was probably surprised because so many aspiring writers don't take that approach. They'd like to BE writers, if only they could figure out how to reach that goal without all the pesky paperwork.
For example, one young man read my short stories in the Star Wars Gamer magazine and stared thinking about writing one of his own. But he didn't want to waste his time writing a story unless he was sure it would be published. He wanted to write a couple of pages and send them to me. If I thought he was on the right track, he wanted me to forward his sample to George Lucas. If Mr. Lucas read this young man's work (his first attempt at writing, by the way...) agreed that yes, he would publish a story based on this writing sample, then, and only then, would this aspiring writer consider it worth his time to write the whole story.
The mind boggles.
People familiar with the FR cosmology know that people talk to clerics, who talk to gods, who talk to Ao. This analogy applies here, if you substitute "George Lucas" for "Ao." I might have written one Star Wars book, but I'm definitely a few steps away from having a good ol' chin-wag with Ao. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Jul 2004 04:34:31 |
|
|
|
Feiht
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:36:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
People familiar with the FR cosmology know that people talk to clerics, who talk to gods, who talk to Ao. This analogy applies here, if you substitute "George Lucas" for "Ao." I might have written one Star Wars book, but I'm definitely a few steps away from having a good ol' chin-wag with Ao.
So, instead of the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon", in FR world, we have the "Six Degrees of Ao" |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2004 : 22:40:51
|
Certainly some people in those threads seemed to have fun telling their potential employer they're unprofessional, their potential readers that they're out of sympathy with the world they want to write in. That list about covers it.
I so agree about that American valorization and sanctifying of 'opinion' -- judged by column inches and decibels -- it's a sanction of egotism, a culture of relativism that forgot to check what the ideas of relativism are. Not that all such blurted opinions (see my latest savaging of amazon.com 'reviews' on ralsalvatore.com) are sincere, but sincerity itself is not an a priori virtue: all sorts of harmful things are sincere. (Compare drink driving.)
The human tendencies to build structures (social, cosmic, etc.) and to knock them down are both needed, but the trick is to know which forms are worth supporting and which should be worked against. Blind iconoclasm is blind. Then, people who post to message boards (a minority of those who read them) tend, at least a little, to like the sound of their own voice. Sean surely among them. |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 00:48:38
|
| Elaine, welcome to the Age of Information. Lol. There are always people like that, but they finally have their chance to shine with the help of the internet... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 02:05:34
|
Geez just after reading this thread it has changed my opinions of a few people, and no I am not talking about I think mine is right type, but just the image of these two. My image of Reynolds dropped a few notches while my impression of Cunningham raised a few. You know I have yet to get that book Mrs. Cunningham every time I get into Walden’s it is sold out I am about to special order it if they don’t have it when I next go shopping.
Anyways onto one thing brought up in this thread, about being serious about becoming a writer.
This might not mean much but being serious about becoming a writer isn’t diminished when someone doesn’t enter the open novel calls. Even though I love the setting, heck I got almost all of the novels, and just missing the players guide to the forgotten realms, I want to enter it yet one line hits me and keeps me from doing that. Be realistic about the time frame. Right now to say my life is nothing but chaos and won’t be stable for at least 6 months or so is an understatement and I wouldn’t enter the contest just for the fact I don’t know if I would ever have the time to finish the novel, I am being realistic about it. For me professionally it is not a good thing to enter into a business contract not knowing if you will be able to complete it or not, just not professional.
So I sit each night I have free time, which the last two months is rare right now, write out a little bit anywhere from 5,000 words to just notes on characters, plots etc and get what work I can get done before I pass out for what little sleep I am allowed. I am serious about becoming a writer hence my devotion to the books I am working on right now, but I am also realistic as much stuff as I have going on right now I know I wouldn’t be able to finish the novel on time if I got it so I don’t enter. For me it is a lost chance to write for a setting I love, but if I couldn’t finish the novel on time it would even be a greater loss if you guys could understand that.
Right now even though the open call is a guarantee at being published I will sit here and plunk down words onto the comp writing during my free time in vain hope one of the many novels I have planned gets taken up and bought. That small line about time frame is my snag and I know it, if life was different right now I would enter but this is going by a strict deadline and personally I would want at the very least 2 hours a night to work on it, and as many as 4 and that is a minimum right now some weeks I get 4 hours free time with all the stuff happening and that was after staying up till 4am. Doesn’t make me any less serious about becoming an author in fact already got the first half of my first novel nearly done. Heck this is the first time I been able to get to a computer in I think almost two weeks time. right now i plan, and plan, and make more plans to eek out as much time as i can to write, ten minutes here, 3 there it adds up in the end.
|
|
|
|
Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 09:39:24
|
[quote]Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
[Also, our society, on and off the Internet, has come to believe in the utter sanctity of the Opinion. The proliferation of opinion polls has led people to believe that their thoughts, even on matters about which they know nothing, are of great intrinsic value.
You've touched on one of my MAJOR bugbears here, Elaine :) There's a saying about opinions that rounds up with "everybody has one". Actually, everybody has several. If we take economics as our guide, therefore, opinions have no intrinsic value. They are worth precisely nothing.
The truth is, people who post nasty things on internet boards probably hope their favourite author will read them. It's that same mentality that makes some men hate women and vice versa: we hate that which makes us vulnerable. Nasty posters want to feel elevated above the average fanboy because this gives them some sense of power over those they look up to, or have looked up to in the past.
What kills me is how many of these people hide behind the sacred cow of Freedom of Speech. Just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean you should. And just because you have something other than sycophantic drivel to add to the conversation doesn't mean you have to phrase your thoughts in a spiteful way. Any movie or literary critic worth his or her salt will tell you that the moment you get spiteful, you lose all credibility. It shows your reason has been over-ridden by your emotions, which means you cease to be an incisive or insightful voice.
I think the open call is curiously vulnerable to such behaviour, though. People are probably trying to boost up their own egos so they have the guts to enter. If they convince themselves they're better than those who have come before, maybe they can convince other people, too. But if you're made of the right stuff, people shouldn't need convincing, especially not that kind. |
|
|
|
Optihut
Acolyte
Germany
7 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 14:57:09
|
I entered the MoP contest without knowing anything about the Realms. I was a fan of the early Dragonlance books, which prompted me to buy the setting book. And I loved Spelljammer and Dark Sun, which were refreshingly different from the elf, dwarf, human vs orcs approach of a lot of other fantasy worlds.
The Forgotten Realms always struck me as a prime example of a vanilla setting. But after reading the setting book for the MoP contest I realized that this outlook was very prejudiced, as the Realms have so much more to offer (those gateways and the different kinds of magic spring to mind, although I cannot recall the proper terminology anymore).
Anyway, the point is that my motivation for sending in a sample wasn't a deep rooted love for the FR, but rather that it was a contest with a clear defined goal and a deadline.
Elaine mentioned that some people have the outrageous notion that they only want to write something when they have the guarantee that it's going to be published. I am not *that* bad, but almost: Unless there is the guarantee that someone takes a look at my stuff and it doesn't land in the trash right away, I refrain from writing fantasy (side note: I did write a limerick just for fun recently, which is remarkable considering that I have a dislike for poetry. But EC's thread about limericks on the WotC board back then converted me).
Still I fall right into the group that the OP complains about and if you take into account that my sample completely ignored the intended mood of MoP and was more of a fantasy story with a pinch of Realmishness as opposed to a tale that gives off the essence of the Realms with every breath, it is a good thing that I did not win ;)
I intend to do a much better job with my Eberron proposal though, so watch out ;)
quote:
I think the open call is curiously vulnerable to such behaviour, though. People are probably trying to boost up their own egos so they have the guts to enter. If they convince themselves they're better than those who have come before, maybe they can convince other people, too. But if you're made of the right stuff, people shouldn't need convincing, especially not that kind.
Indeed!
I remember a particular poster on the WotC board, who kept spouting stuff like "My story is so great, I have already won. Oh, Doppelgangers aren't allowed? Damn... Ah, doesn't matter, my story is so GOOD they'll take it nonetheless!" Strange enough, people kept agreeing with him, because he posted a lot on the board. After the announcement, he screamed bloody murder when he didn't even make it to the runner ups. I mean, what was this guy expecting? I pointed out that while his story probably was good, so was everybody else's (and he never posted his sample, so I cannot even tell if it was all hot air on his part).
So yeah, I agree: Don't try to boost your ego with inane posts like that, it's just aggravating and doesn't help you in the long run. That energy spent should rather go into the proposal anyway. And in that light, I'll return to reading the Eberron setting book :) |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 15:33:36
|
What makes the Realms the Realms is not trivial to discern from the 2001 FRCS, which takes the various inputs to the setting, consolidates and flattens them. It doesn't lie in gates or variant magic or such features (most of which are not original, in their brute outlines, to the Realms). It lies of course in the intangible heart, rhythm, and sensibility of the place, its social and magical dynamics, its particular take on the materials that inspire it, its texture and its sinews which inform everything Ed writes for the Realms. Without these any setting is just a brand name and a collection of bloodless facts and gimmicks. 'Vanilla' is maybe apt in that vanilla is a wonderful, subtle, complex flavour to palates not dulled by tar and spiked metal and flashing lights. The old dilemma of the shared-world writer: it may be inadequate to pastiche the world, but it can't be extended credibly without knowing what it is in the first place.
The answer to whether writing is best motivated by passion (or just having to get the words out) or money isn't simple: Shakespeare, Dickens, and Johnson famously thrived in commercial environments, as did many of the writers for the 20th-century pulps and slicks. But regarding the Realms I know which works for me. |
|
|
|
Optihut
Acolyte
Germany
7 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 15:48:21
|
quote:
The answer to whether writing is best motivated by passion (or just having to get the words out) or money isn't simple:
To be fair, I would assume that the majority of the people who sent in a sample for MoP have got a passion for writing. I know that this is the case with me. A passion for the Realms on the other hand is something that a lot of people, again myself included, seemed to lack *initially*.
To elaborate a bit on my previous point: I don't feel like writing a 90k word novel and send it in to publishers unsolicited. I've been working on my novel for several years now and I never seem to reach the point where I'd feel comfortable approaching a publisher.
Whenever there's a writing competition it is different though, as there are clear goals, boundaries for the story to ensure it is exactly what the publisher is looking for, a deadline and most important of all, it is going to be solicited.
Monetary prizes are not so much of a consideration then, it is the nature of the contest what pushes me to send something in. Before MoP I participated in a short story contest and the grand prize was a self-portrait drawn by a German fantasy artist. The runner ups didn't get anything except for seeing their names in print. That was incentive enough for me to write something and send it in, so this is definitely a question of passion and not money. |
|
|
|
Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 22:30:40
|
Zyx I think it is just the net that allows people to act like this. To me it is akin to talking behind people’s backs, that is the way I view how some posters act on message boards. In general I have seen people who will say anything behind the persons back yet never say it to their face, this is the same for the net. People will say whatever they want without fear of having to look into their eyes. To me it is a very childish behavior.
I agree with you about the freedom of speech and what amazes me it is only in the American constitution yet everyone around the world uses it. recently I brought up about the behavior at one site I pay for and the excuse used by the owner of the site well it was censorship to have people be nice and not say things like the following
“Brooks (a former attourney) apparently reads at a second-grade level, as his writing style lacks any form of flambouince or style, and he excluded use of elevated diction from the giant repitoiare authors liscence themselves to pull from in the sky.”
I was told that having people not bash the author was censorship that stunned me at first, then caused me to leave the site and threaten to pull the funding if such behavior continued. Luckily my wife is co-owner so she put a rule into place that a person would be banned for such personal attacks against an author. For me it is ok to be critical of a persons work but it is never ok to attack them personally. I also look at it this way since I am becoming an author I will not allow others to blatantly attack people in my chosen profession, it just isn’t right on so many levels. Yet besides the censorship thing the other excuse was “well I turn a blind eye to some behavior to keep people coming back.” You can imagine my response to that, involved telling him rules are rules, you ignore one breach of the rules you ignore them all you can just pick and choose when to enforce them, that was among several arguments I made before disgusted with the censorship argument as it popped up again.
Also Elaine I agree with you on what you posted earlier. I was literally open mouth stunned one day when I opened the open novel call thread and saw so many complaining about this or that, attacking WoTC as a big cooperate monster with no thought about the little guy etc. I was shocked to see such behavior from people trying to become writers, when I submit something I actually give the publishers almost twice the normal time before I reply with a “have you had a chance to review it yet?” if they say 8 weeks I give them 12 to 15 before I send off an email, if they say a year and a half I try and give them at the latest two years just because one thing I am is patient and I do understand how things take time and to give them the benefit of the doubt also looks good. I am not constantly breathing down their back and in some cases I have heard it described as harassing. The old adage about the kids in the back seat “are we there yet?” comes to mind with this. My one bit of advice give them extra time before contacting them and be patient, in the end if you are they will look at you with greater respect then someone sending them an email at midnight the day the time period ended.
To me there are three things I have learned about writing so far from listening to others and yet got so much more to learn. One have patience and understanding don’t be demanding, two there is no such thing as writers block just sit and start writing or typing, and three practice makes perfect write and keep on writing only through that will you get better and better and better no one is a born writer you have to work at it just like every other job.
Farear to answer your question and I know this sounds odd to some. In truth I would write for free, I could care less if I ever got paid for it as long as the books got published and people read the stories and I always managed to improve as I write. To me that is what drives me become better at writing never money or fame and to have people read the stories. Eh if I get paid in the process it is a good side effect but not why I write. I write to just write and hope to be doing it till I am a 110 years old…. And if it takes me that long to get published I won’t be giving up till the day I die. Though I think many want to be writers just because they want to write and for very little else, though others could correct me if I am wrong in that assumption.
Elaine can I ask you a question? Were you surprised by the reaction of the people who entered the MoP call after the letters started going out and the posts started to appear on the boards?
|
|
|
|
Optihut
Acolyte
Germany
7 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 22:55:41
|
quote:
I agree with you about the freedom of speech and what amazes me it is only in the American constitution yet everyone around the world uses it.
I don't want to get into another political debate with you, but allow me to correct your erroneous assumption that the principle of freedom of speech exists only in the constitution of the United States of America. From the German Grundgesetz: "Artikel 5 (1) Jeder hat das Recht, seine Meinung in Wort, Schrift und Bild frei zu äußern und zu verbreiten und sich aus allgemein zugänglichen Quellen ungehindert zu unterrichten. Die Pressefreiheit und die Freiheit der Berichterstattung durch Rundfunk und Film werden gewährleistet. Eine Zensur findet nicht statt." (Source: http://www.nlpb.de/04-pub/pub-archiv-Grundgesetz.htm)
This passage losely translates to: "Article 5 (1) Everyone has the right to freely express his/her opinion in word, writing and pictures and to distribute it and to inform himself/herself unimpeded from publicly available sources. The freedom of press and the freedom of news via radio and film are guaranteed. Censorship does not happen."
Without giving further cites, as I'm not fluent in many other languages, I'm willing to bet that Germany is not the only other nation to protect people's basic human rights. While it is certainly commendeable that the USA has got the bill of rights, its status and content is far from unique in this world. |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 22:56:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Davids
Elaine can I ask you a question? Were you surprised by the reaction of the people who entered the MoP call after the letters started going out and the posts started to appear on the boards?
No, I wasn't surprised. The issues raised in that discussion were very similar to attitudes exhibited in much of the email I receive from aspiring writers. |
|
|
|
Erin Tettensor
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 08:58:44
|
It may be worth noting (if only to forestall a potentially bitter exchange) that while the notion of freedom of speech is indeed enshrined in the constitutions of many countries, it was born (at least formally) in the United States. It derives from the concept of freedom of the press, which had its first constitutional expression during the American War of Independence in reaction to the heavy-handedness of the Royal Council. But though freedom of the press was already largely protected as a matter of common law elsewhere (i.e. Britain), freedom of speech as such was not generally considered as an independent concept before the framing of the first amendment in the US.
*morphs out of political scientist mode*
What I will be curious to see about this open call as opposed to the MoP open call is whether the majority of submitters are FR fans, or whether they constitute a more mixed bag. And we won't have the problem of non-Eberron fans, obviously -- we're all just learning. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Lady of Pain open call wizards.com discussion
