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Vikramaditya
Acolyte
15 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 16:13:36
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Reading Extinction has raised more questions than answers for me regarding Myth Drannor, and I was hoping to recieve some clarity from the learned scribes here in this regard..Specifically:
1) Why are there so many devils in Myth Drannor in 1370+ DR? The party encounters pretty high level devils there, including a Pit Fiend! If Yogoloths were responsible for the fall, and they only summoned other Yugoloths, as described in Fall of Myth Drannor, why is Myth Drannor in the present day resembling a mini Hellgate keep?
2) If there is such a high concentration of devils in Myth Drannor, why are they not attacking the dales and Elventree? In Lords of Darkness and City of the Spider Queen, we see only Jaerle Drow or the Spider Kissers harassing the dales. What are all these devils doing cooped up in Myth Drannor?
In Players Guide to Faerun and Lords of Darkness, Myth Drannor is described as a crumbling ruin where the drow are trying to reactivate the Mythal..with no mention of this high concentration of devils. Is this FR canon or is it poetic license?
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 20:56:25
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Well met!
quote:
Originally posted by Vikramaditya
Reading Extinction has raised more questions than answers for me regarding Myth Drannor, and I was hoping to recieve some clarity from the learned scribes here in this regard..Specifically:
1) Why are there so many devils in Myth Drannor in 1370+ DR? The party encounters pretty high level devils there, including a Pit Fiend! If Yogoloths were responsible for the fall, and they only summoned other Yugoloths, as described in Fall of Myth Drannor, why is Myth Drannor in the present day resembling a mini Hellgate keep?
2) If there is such a high concentration of devils in Myth Drannor, why are they not attacking the dales and Elventree? In Lords of Darkness and City of the Spider Queen, we see only Jaerle Drow or the Spider Kissers harassing the dales. What are all these devils doing cooped up in Myth Drannor?
In Players Guide to Faerun and Lords of Darkness, Myth Drannor is described as a crumbling ruin where the drow are trying to reactivate the Mythal..with no mention of this high concentration of devils. Is this FR canon or is it poetic license?
I can't really answer your questions, but I've always been under the assumption that Myth Drannor had a number of petty devils within its confines ... as mentioned in the FR sourcebook, the Spellfire novel, and the Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor module.
For the most part, I tend to look at the details in all sourcebooks and novels, etc. as mere rumour or bardic hyperbole. This leaves alot of room for creativity, within an given context, and avoids the petty annoyance and inquisition mentality that "canon" brings with it. Which is espeically annoying when, it would seem, the FR papal counsel can't even be consistent with canon info.
And I tell yeah, its really annoying when one of your players is a hopeless consumer of realms products and has the idea that he has the skinny on everything. He still enjoys Realms products of course, but he now understands not to mess with the DM.
Brecca's Better |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 03:30:07
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I don't believe Myth Drannor is populated with devils. Sure, certain parts are infested with them, but I don't believe the entire ruin is inhabited by them.
I think Lisa Smedman did a great job of giving Myth Drannor it's proper due in Extinction. My first experience with Myth Drannor was Spellfire, and I was hooked immediately. I just sent my group to Myth Drannor, and both novels inspired the conflict there. Myth Drannor is a great place to throw a pit fiend and his cadre of erinyes assassins.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 04:40:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I think Lisa Smedman did a great job of giving Myth Drannor it's proper due in Extinction.
I agree. She highlighted the location without letting it overwhelm and dominate the characters within the story. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 05:51:51
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In a private e-mail a long while ago, Ed had this to say:
early 700s DR: Myth Drannor sacked by an Army of
Darkness led by three nycaloths.
1344 DR/Year of Moonfall: Retreat begins. Elves of the
the Elven Court abandon residence in the woods around
the ruins of Myth Drannor, and for the first time
leave those ruins unguarded, for others to plunder.
1355 DR: Zhent priests of Bane serving the High
Imperceptor (who at the time was looking for allies
and troops in his struggle for supremacy within the
Zhentarim against Fzoul and Manshoon) open a gate (3E:
portal) to the Nine Hells in the part of the Myth
Drannan ruins known as Burial Glen.
Depraved Bane worshippers start sacrificing
non-believers to the devils and praying to them for
aid.
Zhentarim wizards (Hesperdan and others) who find out
about this incipient disaster (devils roaming the
Realms unrestricted, and bringing in armies of
reinforcements? Yikes!) hastily cast spells to modify
the decaying mythal of the city, to restrict the
devils in two ways: they can't personally gate in
other devils, and they can't move more than 70 yards
beyond the ruins (for example, they can't reach
Lovers' Glade).
Hope this helps.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 17:00:13
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| Forgive my brain malfunction but what is a nycaloth in 3E terms? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 17:13:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Forgive my brain malfunction but what is a nycaloth in 3E terms?
Try this link for a brief description.
Additionally, take a look at this drawing. The nycaloth should be the cutie pie on the left. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 18:53:02
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| Sweet. Thanks! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2004 : 17:13:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Forgive my brain malfunction but what is a nycaloth in 3E terms?
Nycaloths are greater yugoloths.
They are commonly regarded as observers and reporters who reconnoiter the Lower Planes and carefully watch the Blood War for their Ultroloth masters.
These hulking, broad-shouldered humanoids, look like the typical fiend in their gargoyle-like appearance. While they have powerful limbs, and wings that provide an average flight capability, they do not have four arms. The image Sirius linked to is normally regarded as a mistake.
Nycaloths are said to communicate via telepathy.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2004 : 14:22:06
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The Fall of Myth Drannor describes the nycaloths as follows:
quote:
Aulmpiter, without any doubt among the nycaloths or the Army itself, was the primary leader of the Army of Darkness. A strategist and a thinker, Aulmpiter engineered both the amassing of the Army and the planning of its attacks.
Despite missing a right eye, the nycaloth Malimshaer still noted minute details and had a knack for collecting information, and thus acted as the Army's commander of spies and intelligence gathering.
Gaulguth, the nigh-berserker warrior of the trio, took on the post of field commander for the heart of the Army of Darkness. The most active and feared of the trio, Gaulguth had as many scars as scales covering his form, due to his overwhelming eagerness both for and in battle.
For me, one of the most interesting things about these three is their differences. In 2E, there wasn't much of a difference between monsters and PCs of the same class. One can only imagine what a 3.5 update on the nycaloths would be. One might consider Gaulguth a barbarian (dare I suggest the frenzied berserker PrC?). Aulmpiter could be an advanced nycaloth, perhaps with some wizard or sorcerer levels. Gaulguth might be a rogue/assassin.
The Fall of Myth Drannor is such interesting reading, especially if you're interested in running a war scenario in FR.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 29 Jul 2004 14:29:06 |
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Vikramaditya
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2004 : 15:27:04
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quote:
Zhentarim wizards (Hesperdan and others) who find out
about this incipient disaster (devils roaming the
Realms unrestricted, and bringing in armies of
reinforcements? Yikes!) hastily cast spells to modify
the decaying mythal of the city, to restrict the
devils in two ways: they can't personally gate in
other devils, and they can't move more than 70 yards
beyond the ruins (for example, they can't reach
Lovers' Glade).
George, thank you for that information. That was exactly what I was looking for. I do have some more questions though...Why exactly did the Elves come up with this great idea  of trapping 3 fiends in a floating box above their city, instead of banishing them? FoMD says nothing about this, expect indicate that the fiends could not return to their home plane. Couldn't the same have been accompolished with an imprisonment spell somewhere deep underground or banishment to a prison plane/demi-plane? Surely the high mages had the knowledge to do this, considering they had stolen the Nether Scrolls and locked 'em up in a tree for their exclusive use...
Also, I don't know too much about the Zhentharim, but how high a level were these wizards to modify the Myth Drannor Mythal? The drow, after all, have been trying to tinker with the Mythal without too much success..And why haven't the chosen of Mystra ever tried to repair the Mythal over the last few hundred years? Thanks...
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2004 : 16:28:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Vikramaditya
Why exactly did the Elves come up with this great idea of trapping 3 fiends in a floating box above their city, instead of banishing them? FoMD says nothing about this, expect indicate that the fiends could not return to their home plane.
That's a good thing. They were effectively paralyzed, unable to go home, or find a way back to Faerun.
quote:
Couldn't the same have been accompolished with an imprisonment spell somewhere deep underground
Imprisonment is a very easy spell to thwart. The yugoloths would have been freed centuries before their escape if the only thing trapping them was a 9th level spell.
quote:
or banishment to a prison plane/demi-plane? Surely the high mages had the knowledge to do this, considering they had stolen the Nether Scrolls and locked 'em up in a tree for their exclusive use...
In fact, the nycaloths were banished to a prison plane. The elves used high elven magic to "bind and imprison the (nycaloths)" (pg. 13). That was high elven magic that held those three nycaloths. To banish them to another plane (or their home plane) would at least give them the chance to find their way back.
I must say that the key to unbinding the nycaloths, which was when a "red dragon that never knew malice or greed in its heart flies over the Coronal's throne" was a bit odd. A key like this made the nycaloth's return not a question of how, but when. The elves were doomed from that day forward.
quote:
Also, I don't know too much about the Zhentharim, but how high a level were these wizards to modify the Myth Drannor Mythal? The drow, after all, have been trying to tinker with the Mythal without too much success..And why haven't the chosen of Mystra ever tried to repair the Mythal over the last few hundred years? Thanks...
Great questions. I'm honestly not sure how high their levels might have been. I imagine at least in the upper teens, if not the 20s. Concerning drow, I've always noticed that drow magic pales in comparison to surface elf and human magic. As for the Chosen, I imagine that they like Myth Drannor just as it is. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 15:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Vikramaditya
Also, I don't know too much about the Zhentarim, but how high a level were these wizards to modify the Myth Drannor Mythal? The drow, after all, have been trying to tinker with the Mythal without too much success..And why haven't the chosen of Mystra ever tried to repair the Mythal over the last few hundred years? Thanks...
Well, I confess that I did truncate Ed's musings on this topic just a tad as he went on to say this:
As the mythal continued to decay, devils roamed
farther afield, but as soon as this was noticed,
Mystra sent her servants (Chosen, Weavespinners,
Pursuivants Arcane, et al) to raise a new mythal
AROUND the decaying original, to duplicate the
original restrictions. Azuth aided directly in its
creation.
So the result is this: individual devils (of various
sorts) did get out into the woods to roam, but most
have since been slain, and the restrictions remain.
It's not known what other properties the new mythal
may have, so any author is free to add little things
for dramatic effect or storytelling purposes.
Now, I don't know how this theory stacks up with FR 3E as my reading of FRCS makes it seem like the FR 3E design team wanted to make the Myth Drannor mythal a decayed, creaking shadow of its former self. There certainly isn't any mention of a brand new mythal around Myth Drannor. But hey, use whatever suits you.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2004 : 02:43:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The Fall of Myth Drannor is such interesting reading, especially if you're interested in running a war scenario in FR.
Thanks very much for the kind words.
A grateful author |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2004 : 03:38:21
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Ya know, I've never read a whole lot into Myth Drannor so far, only bits and pieces here and there, however, I'm beginning to find myself drawn into learning much about it. It's going to be awhile before I have a sizable stack of the FR novels and begin reading them, I'm having a dratted time trying to find them anywhere for reasonable prices. It seems all the used book stores here want nearly as much as you pay for them new, and I don't have the money to buy them all new. However, I think I may just have to sacrifice the gold and buy them for what I can get them for, because I'm itching to read them now. Especially on Myth Drannor, I've always liked the thought of doing a small war campaign, I may just find myself working this into it... time will tell I s'pose.
K |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 04:18:40
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I with Karesch here in that I was not all that familiar with Myth Drannor, just had a brief look at a friends set of 2ndEd campaign books. I found & downloaded a quite good NWN module set in & around Myth Drannor which perked my interest in the place.
Like Karesch, I too will be hunting through 2nd hand book shops hoping to find some relevent material now. |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Jerard Doonsay
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 05:38:02
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For those who, like me, prefer to have the actual print copy, I will again direct people to eBay. I've gotten much FR stuff from there...
Let me tell a tale... I first found out about FR4 The Magister in about 1991. It was already out of print, and I spent the next several years unsuccessfully looking for it. In 1999 or 2000, after years of fruitless searching, it occurred to me to hit eBay.
I had the book in my hands three weeks later.
It may take some persistence, but it's a lot easier to search for something on eBay than it is to go out and pound pavement looking for it. |
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Devils in Myth Drannor, 1370+ DR
