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Originally posted by DDH_101
Interesting... I thought that Larloch and Ioulaun are like the two Netherese Arcanists left on Faerun that's still "alive". Looks like there maybe a third one. Kuje, do you know what god Parzal had followed?

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Originally posted by kuje31

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Originally posted by DDH_101
Interesting... I thought that Larloch and Ioulaun are like the two Netherese Arcanists left on Faerun that's still "alive". Looks like there maybe a third one. Kuje, do you know what god Parzal had followed?

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It doesn't say. :( Most of the divine casters in that box set are without deities for some odd reason. Also Ed has hinted, in person, that Ioulaun is still "alive". He's also mentioned that there are two other arcanists alive besides Larloch and Lord Shadow. It was in his thread on the novel boards or in my file that I made about his thread on the novel boards.

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"Dargoth, I know of at least a dozen Netherese who are still active in the Realms of today, albeit some of them in greatly changed forms. Hint: a LOT of Netherese bound themselves into magic items (especially swords), to ‘live on’ telepathically. If your blade seems able to see what’s around it without having visible eyes, hear thoughts of nearby creatures, and mend/heal itself in limited ways, it just might contain the sentience of a Netherese.

The pages of ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE and SHADOWS OF DOOM both contain Netherese survivors (one each), and I can reveal here that I know of at least two who reside quietly (pretending to be “just plain folks”) in Waterdeep and Suzail, respectively. No, I’m not going to give names, because for a DM it’s far more useful to have them as ‘handy tools.’

The Waterdhavian one founded a successful mercantile family now regarded as noble, and then (having prepared for this with covert investments, coin caches, and property purchases) faked his own death, to reappear as a retired merchant, a role he’s played several times since. Like Elminster, he meddles covertly in city politics and society, spreading rumors and ‘turning’ particular individuals to hold more cosmopolitan world-views (investing in other lands, and taking an interest in folk from those places). He does this because he very much wants to avoid Waterdhavian haughtiness from growing any greater than it is already.

The Suzailan one is a female who firmly believes that Netheril fell because of overweening pride and overarching mastery of magic. She enjoys life in Cormyr (when it isn’t imperiled by war, of course), has hidden coins and gold in plenty for her needs, and covertly works to do two things: confuse and confound War Wizard investigations, and to make both War Wizards and others think that there are secret personal dangers involved in too much spellcasting, and in casting specific, over-powerful spells. She is VERY good at keeping hidden, spreading such rumors through the mouths of passing strangers by means of suggestion magics, and never doing anything openly herself. She’s no enemy of the Crown; she just doesn’t think allowing the War Wizards to reach the status of ‘extremely effective secret police’ is a good idea. She’s dwelt in Suzail for almost forty years, and knows it will soon be time to “disappear” or be noticed as something other than the well-to-do widow she’s pretending to be, but is tarrying because she enjoys the city and its folk so much (she perceives a rising danger in wealthy, ever-restless Sembia of sorcerers and wizards becoming overproud and reckless in their use of magic, but has such a distaste for what she’s seen of Sembian society that she just doesn’t want to go there, while also seeing that it would be a very good place to take a new face and name).

You can, of course, create many more Netherese, though I’d suggest that they all conceal their origins and that they NOT (or try not) to know of each other, rather than forming any sort of shadowy secret society or power group. That would be why, even for the two examples from my novels, clearly identified Netherese should be very scarce. After all, if Netheril is most remembered as a “land of awesome magic,” then anyone identified as Netherese can expect wizards and sorcerers to launch surprise attacks, mind-invasions, and attempts to capture or financially control them, to get all the magic that’s “surely” waiting in their minds, or in the case of items, hidden in places they know."

Dargoth then went on to ask: "How do you think the 2 survivors are taking the return of Shade Enclave? From the way you describe them they dont sound like they'd get on well with the Shades. Its also interesting the 2 cities/nations that they live in have recently had bad experiences with Shade enclave in the Return of the Arch Wizards series. Also the Shades are apparently looking for Netherese Survivors as well"

Ed answered: "I quite agree: the Netherese survivors won’t get along at all well with the people of Shade. In fact, I’d venture to say that ALL surviving Netherese in Faerun would be wary at best, and actively hostile at worst, to the new “arrivals.”

“Hiding from and otherwise ignoring” would probably be their initial reaction, and they’ll quite rightly see attempts by the folk of Shade to find them as attempts to snatch their power. If that happens just once, word will get around, and the folk of Shade will then discover they’ve bitten off a lot more than they can ever hope to chew."

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most of the Netherese arcanists weren't too big on following gods. When you're powerful enough to make a flying city, do you really want to admit that there's someone more powerful than you?

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Originally posted by Senbar Flay

I have been reading through and this seems interesting. But I have one qwestion even though it might be a bit of topic. If you don't want to answer it's okay.

ARe Dendar Kezef and Ityak-Ortheel in equal to a gods power or greatr alos who is the most powerful among them do they have stats?

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Originally posted by kuje31

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most of the Netherese arcanists weren't too big on following gods. When you're powerful enough to make a flying city, do you really want to admit that there's someone more powerful than you?

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That's not what I meant and I know this. I meant that the creator of that box set didn't list ANY of the deities for any of the divine casters except for a handful. There are over 50+ divine casters in that box set but hardly any of them say which deity they worship. :)

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Originally posted by Senbar Flay

I have been reading through and this seems interesting. But I have one qwestion even though it might be a bit of topic. If you don't want to answer it's okay.

ARe Dendar Kezef and Ityak-Ortheel in equal to a gods power or greatr alos who is the most powerful among them do they have stats?

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Originally posted by DDH_101

Kezef also bitten off Tyr's hand, which is the reason why he has a stump.


Wooly, from the Ed Greenwood quote that you posted, it said that some Netherese bound themselves to magical items. If I remember correctly, Charon's Claw is a Netherese weapon, as said in Realms of Shadow. Does this mean that there is a chance the spirit of some powerful Netherese Arcanist is in there?

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Originally posted by Senbar Flay

I remeber a Netherese wizard flew down and formed the nation of Halruaa I can not remember his name anyone know what happened to him?

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Originally posted by The Sage

Before I begin, let me just say this... I prefer for Asmodeus to be a great mystery.

Now, onto the lore...

We know his general goals, of course - conquest of the Multiverse, annihilation of chaos and good, every soul dancing to his every gesture and word. As the ultimate personification of evil law, that's to be expected. We also know something of his M.O. - plans and schemes of near-infinite complexity, filled with misdirections and multiple steps that each increase his goals in innumerable ways. He likes to use the gods themselves as pawns, manipulating them in order to discredit them and give more credit to devilkind, channeling the power and belief towards Baator. Although it will always seem like he is not doing this.

But his nature, his true appearance - that's tougher. Baatezu are creatures of lies and illusion. Their nobles hide behind multiple names and identities, trading aspects like they trade mortal souls. And the Overlord of Hell, Emperor of Baatezu, the Dark Lord of Nessus, the Deepest of the Nine, the Subtle Serpent of Ultimate Law, the Prince of All Darkness, the Grandfather of Lies, the steel corruption that Shall Not Be Named - he or it is the greatest deceiver of his kind. Or so it is said.

This is not to say Asmodeus does not manifest himself in a form perceivable by his minions. It is said he is handsome, the most handsome of the Lords of the Nine, a study in the perfection of the humanoid form, and built along gigantic proportions. He has a neatly trimmed, pointed goatee, and eyes which are black voids leading into endless oblivion and sorrow, with serpentine rings of flame spiralling down into an infinite trench. He wears splendid, aristrocratic robes, and a crown, as befits a monarch. He is a calm and genteel speaker, though there are legendary accounts of his rages. His forehead sprouts two small horns.

And this form is a lie. And he has many other forms, each as false as the last. And if, deep within the chasms of Nessus, he has a true form, it is not spoken of.

To paraphrase Alan Moore:

"But... we've met Asmodeus before! He didn't look like that!"

Asmodeus: "I don't look like anything."

Finally, if you're looking for a 3e conversion and information on the Lord of the Ninth (as I prefer to call him), look to the Book of Vile Darkness. It's not a grand or noble conversion, and it really leaves such an awesome being wanting, but it's the only official interpretation that we have.

Enjoy .

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Originally posted by Senbar Flay

I know the refugees ame down but wasn't there leader som netherese archmage named Rathil or somesuch and if he did exist (I think he does) What happened to him and are there any stats.

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Originally posted by DDH_101

Ya, I know that. But we've been having our little "conspiracy theories" here at Candlkeep that he isn't "dead".

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Originally posted by DDH_101

Arashir, I agree with you about PCs shouldn't be able to take on Asmodeus and similar archdevils, but I disagree with your assessment of his abilites. Asmodeus isn't just "promoted fiend", he has enough power to take on all the other eight lords of Hell. The Lord of the Ninth's owns a large arsenal of spells and weapons, including his Ruby Rod, which is probably one of the most powerful artifacts ever made.

Then there's also the thousands and thousands of pitfiends who guard the entrance to Nessus, the domain of Asmodeus. It's enough of a challenge to reach Asmodeus, let alone fight him.

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Originally posted by ArdashirHmm, isn't there an archdevil stuck on Faerun who is worshipped as a demi-god? Gargauth, I believe his name is? Since he is an arch-devil at least (hey, he can grant spells to his worshippers and they can't), wouldn;t he be one of the most powerful beings actually *living on* Faerun?

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Originally posted by DDH_101

Gargauth doesn't actually "live" on Faerun, does he? It seems kinda strange to have a deity living with like his followers...

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Originally posted by Krafus

According to Volo's Guide to the North, Ioulaum is gone:

(P. 223, entry for Tabra, a NG HF Wiz22): "She was once an apprentice of Ioulaum, one of the few Netherese sorcerer-kings not to perish in the fall of Netheril or flee to Halruaa. Ioulaum was ultimately slain in a spell battle with a cabal of a dozen alhoon (illithiliches) [...]"

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Originally posted by Alhoon

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Originally posted by Krafus

According to Volo's Guide to the North, Ioulaum is gone:

(P. 223, entry for Tabra, a NG HF Wiz22): "She was once an apprentice of Ioulaum, one of the few Netherese sorcerer-kings not to perish in the fall of Netheril or flee to Halruaa. Ioulaum was ultimately slain in a spell battle with a cabal of a dozen alhoon (illithiliches) [...]"

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Just to note the Lost Empires of Faerûn tome notes that Ioulaum did survive the fall of Netheril as he escaped to the Northdark and magically transfered his "soul?" into an elderbrain of an illithid city.

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Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

This is my first post to that amazing forum, and I want to apologize for my english. I´m a brazilian fan of the Realms, and I have a great practice in reading, but I´m not so good in writing...

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1. Halaster has been around for a LONG time, and for almost all of that time he’s been an enigma. Steven Schend and I pretty well agreed that he was only insane as long as he was in Undermountain, and it seems that ‘the new’ Mystra has freed him from the worst magical effects of its thrall, returning him to sanity. She did NOT make him a Chosen, but instead made a ‘separate peace’ with him, giving him the status of a free-willed agent (from time to time she’ll ask him to do something for her, with new spells or augmented powers as his reward or price, but she will do absolutely nothing to coerce him into service, nor look upon him unfavorably if he refuses).
Whether he’ll become a threat to the wider Realms, or a ‘good guy,’ depends on him. Right at the moment, I personally have no plans for a Halaster novel, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the good folks at WotC are pondering this topic for some scribe’s pen. He is a perfect main character for a pull-out-the-stops spellhurling novel, after all. :}

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Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

I´ll prepare this changes in my campaign, so... if anyone here can help with more tips and clues, I´ll be very glad!!!

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I envision Halaster as knowing the rules of many Faerunian games (see my comments earlier in this thread for rules of some games played in the Realms), but having no interest whatsoever in dice, card, and other ‘primarily gambling’ sorts of games. I see him as being fairly good at, but essentially bored by, strategy board games (chess, et al). The reason for this is that his primary fascination and delight lies in judging character and successfully figuring out how to manipulate and ‘out-think’ opponents (for which read: any creature he wants to manipulate). Yes, ‘brute blasting spells’ can engender fear, and fear can move many an adventurer in Undermountain (greed and overconfident pride moves many of the rest), but over the years Halaster became used to matching wits with rulers who commanded many resources (including capable agents) and mages and sorcerers who had great personal mental strength -- and such struggles are what interest him most. As strategy board games don’t allow for manipulation of the minds of individual playing-pieces, and the games themselves are abstract struggles that have no lasting effect in the real-life Realms, Halaster sees them as time-wasters -- and he values even his idle moments as time too valuable to waste.



Questions:
1. What is the name of the seventh apprentice? Was it Ezzat as detailed in the Ruins of Undermountain II? Or is Nandel Greenward? Hmmm. That makes eight. I hate mysteries.

2. Do any of the aforementioned apprentices have last names?

3. Has there been documented anywhere any descendants of any apprentices?

4. Did Halaster begin holding the MageFairs on his own, or was he working with a group?

5. At what point did Halaster decide to change his name from Hilather?

6. Where/When was Halaster born?

7. What changes have been made to Halaster since Elminster in Hell? (i.e. Is he sane now?)

8. When Halster claimed to have been touched by Shar, does this mean he has access to the Shadow Weave?

9. Are there any anecdotes about any of your gaming groups’ encounters with Halaster?

10. Where/When did Halaster begin training his apprentices?

11. Who trained Halaster?

12. What would Halaster’s alignment have been a)when he began training his apprentices b)when he created Halaster’s Hold?

Answers:
1. [NDA]
2. Yes, but they’ve not been remembered by, or are not known to, our Realms sources consulted thus far. Perhaps they’ll be revealed in the fullness of [NDA]
3. No. However, that doesn’t mean no offspring exist. In fact, [NDA]
4. Halaster thought he was establishing MageFairs on his own, but in fact more than one deity of magic was whispering subtle suggestions in more than one mortal ear to bring it about. Otherwise, given the paranoid nature of most mages, it’s likely the MageFairs would never have been more than Halaster waiting in some tranquil, remote locale for one or two mages to show up (and the Fairs would have ended the moment one arriving mage attacked, or was attacked by, another). As for who these deities and other mortals were, specifically, I’d have to [NDA]
5. [NDA]
6. A long time ago, specifically [NDA] in [NDA]
7. Like any long-lived mage, Halaster isn’t what most other mortals would call ‘normal,’ and never will be. However, Mystra did some major mental healing (that also involved binding Halaster more closely to her service), ‘offstage’ in the latter part of ELMINSTER IN HELL and thereafter. Halaster did NOT become a Chosen, but reached a ‘separate peace’ with her in return for serving her as an agent (in the events recounted in ELMINSTER IN HELL). He still has his ‘raving times,’ but they’re fewer, shorter, and less severe than before (i.e. he’s far more in touch with reality, and more cunning and less reckless whilst in the throes of them); most of the time he’s in complete control of himself - - and this is no longer governed by his location (in Undermountain or outside of it). That doesn’t mean he’s a ‘happy camper.’ For one thing, he’s both enraged and ashamed at how many years he’s wasted ‘drifting’ in sub-sanity, and is just climbing out of considering himself an utter failure and a rot-fungus on the face of Faerun and into deciding what he’ll devote the rest of his life to. Consider him a magical whirlwind that’s stopped spinning and is poised to decide what to do next. Tremble, Faerun, tremble.
8. Halaster HAD access to the Shadow Weave; much of his madness was due to Shar’s whisperings (attempts to mind-control him), which is specifically what he meant by her ‘touch.’ Shar’s influence gave him access to the Shadow Weave, but Halaster’s aged, busy, brilliantly-magic-creative mind couldn’t simultaneously handle mastery of both Weave and Shadow Weave, and so he was losing his sanity (and only thereby keeping Shar at bay: she couldn’t control a mind in such internal chaos). Mystra in effect thrust Shar out (in any contest of pure magic and of mortal mastery of magic, in which Mystra and Shar can exert equal forces against each other, Mystra will always win, because she IS magic, and has supremacy) of Halaster’s mind, banishing all traces of the Shadow Weave forever. What she left behind makes Halaster one of the few mortals whom Shar can never subvert, now. She can break his mind and his body, but not corrupt and come to control him. (In other words, he’s equal to a Chosen of Mystra in this regard. The Chosen who’ve failed Mystra in the past have lost their sanity and ‘fallen away from her love,’ and so become corruptible.)
9. Yes. :}
:}
:}

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