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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 05:02:26
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I beleive the events at the end of annihilation occur at the end of 1372. I think the actual return of lloth is Hammer 1373. IF you look at the players guide to the Forgottne realms they tell you the month that Quenthel's crew reached the sealed temple. If you extropolate from there, I think you will reach the same time.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Pipers Youth
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 03:01:24
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quote:
Which is one of the greater failings of the series. In the end, what did the War of the Spider Queen change? Nothing of any real consequence. The really interesting characters the series introduced are all dead or totally changed. Soon enough, Lolth, the drow race, Menzoberranzan and House Baenre will all be back to business as usual. I'm left with the increasingly bitter feeling the whole series was little more than an attempt to cash in on the popularity of drow and Salvatore.
The fall of Ched Nasad, the defeat of Gracklstugh,as well as the Scourged Legions. The death of the duergar prince of Gracklstugh. Oh, and not to mention the rebirth of Lolth.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure any of those things weren't of any consequence. Just a little Forgotten Realms history, that's all. No foul intended, but I don't think all that hard work was "an attempt to cash in on the popularity of drow and Salvatore".
If you'll dully note, there was just more than one author working on the books. And Salvatore was just the team leader.
And like others yes, the death of Pharaun was a bit disappointing. It was one of those lines you just had read over again to make sure, and leaves you blinking in shock. He was my favorite character in the book, manly because he provided comical relief. |
"I...I truly wish Vangerdahast was still irritating half of Cormyr by running things in his usual capable fashion. He'd handle things so much better than I do."
-Caladnei, Mage Royal |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 05:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Xandos Anskul
As a side note, someone said Phaurun did not cast 8th or 9th level spells. Didn't he cast Wail of the Banshee at some point?
Phauran cast a number of 9th level spells during the series. The two that immediately come to mind are Bigby's Crushing Hand and Wail of the Banshee. As for 8th level spells he used Flensing, Greater Planar Binding, Power Word Stun, Bigby's Clenched Fist, and Incendiary Cloud just to name the ones that immediately come to mind. Phauran's spell selections in all 6 books for me were a real high point because he used a wide variety of spells including Realms specific spells and he was creative in using his spells to solve problems. This to me is a pleasant contrast to the Fireball-hurling or decrepit Necromancer stereotypes that so often show up in fantasy literature.
Perhaps one of these times I will compile a list of all the spells used by Phauran in the series just to show exactly how expansive his repetoire was. I will truely miss his character because he was my favorite Forgotten Realms character of anything I have read to date (which is a lot of Realms novels). I hope they go back and perhaps do some prequel books with him and Ryld or something similar so that we can get more novels about him without just bringing him back to life. I know that bringing him back would rankle some folks so doing prequels presents a nice compromise between those who really want to see more Phauran stories and those who are sick of "return from the dead" characters. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 17:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Accursed
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
In the end, what did the War of the Spider Queen change? Nothing of any real consequence. The really interesting characters the series introduced are all dead or totally changed. Soon enough, Lolth, the drow race, Menzoberranzan and House Baenre will all be back to business as usual. I'm left with the increasingly bitter feeling the whole series was little more than an attempt to cash in on the popularity of drow and Salvatore.
My sentiments exactly. So much potential wasted.
The most significant event in the series was probably the utter destruction of Ched Nasad. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 20:07:53
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Which I find interesting, entertaining, and question worthy at the same time.
I'm unclear if the Dark Elve and Lolth and crew (pantheon) where in Ed's original world (the world he currently still plays.). If so, was Ched Nasad part of his original world??? |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 23:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Pipers Youth
The fall of Ched Nasad, the defeat of Gracklstugh,as well as the Scourged Legions. The death of the duergar prince of Gracklstugh. Oh, and not to mention the rebirth of Lolth.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure any of those things weren't of any consequence. Just a little Forgotten Realms history, that's all. No foul intended, but I don't think all that hard work was "an attempt to cash in on the popularity of drow and Salvatore".
Ched Nasad, Gracklstugh and its prince, the Scourged Legion - those were, all in all, minor characters and places, detailed in one or two products and never before featured in novels. Accordingly, their fates are, IMHO, of minor importance. As for the rebirth of Lolth, there is, as nearly as I can tell, no hint that the new Lolth is any different from the old Lolth (aside that now we'll see "greater" instead of "intermediate" about her level of power in sourcebooks). |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 01:49:46
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| Krafus, a change from "Intermediate" to "Greater" is a huge difference. It automatically gives the Spider Queen a new set of powers as a Greater Deity. Not to mention that being a Greater Deity spells trouble for the elven pantheon as Lolth is now even more powerful. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:07:38
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Hey guys,
Tone down the heat that looks to be starting in this thread. Thanks. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:09:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Which I find interesting, entertaining, and question worthy at the same time.
I'm unclear if the Dark Elve and Lolth and crew (pantheon) where in Ed's original world (the world he currently still plays.). If so, was Ched Nasad part of his original world???
I believe they were in his original world, especially since he created Eilistraee and her brother. :) He used many of the early d&d deities and imported them into FR and expanded on them. But to know for sure, someone can ask him. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 06:17:22
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The biggest missed opportunities in the series were with Gracklstugh (sp?) and Prince Horgar IMO. Duergar should be as tough as nails and hard to kill. No surface elf would be able to kill a normal dwarf as easy as drow kill duergar al the time. It annoys me, how they are characterized in novels and game materials.
As it was though the dueragr were minor characters and thus their deaths minor and unimportant as well. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.  |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 14:20:29
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(Sorry about my previous post. Now that I think on it, I did go overboard.:( ).
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Krafus, a change from "Intermediate" to "Greater" is a huge difference. It automatically gives the Spider Queen a new set of powers as a Greater Deity. Not to mention that being a Greater Deity spells trouble for the elven pantheon as Lolth is now even more powerful.
Ah, but it was in her nature that I was hoping for changes, not her level of power. She's still the same old Lolth, just more powerful. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 15:58:18
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Krafus... the same ol' Lolth is already bad enough.  |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 16:15:51
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quote:
Originally posted by R0GUE
The biggest missed opportunities in the series were with Gracklstugh (sp?) and Prince Horgar IMO. Duergar should be as tough as nails and hard to kill. No surface elf would be able to kill a normal dwarf as easy as drow kill duergar al the time. It annoys me, how they are characterized in novels and game materials.
As it was though the dueragr were minor characters and thus their deaths minor and unimportant as well.
Indeed. The duergar get rolled over irritatingly often. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 07:32:12
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Dark Elves for some reason have been a fascination for years. When the 1st ed Unearthed Arcana was released, and even before, the Dark Elf characters were popping up everywhere. I love dark elves, and YES I think it WAS an attempt to cahs in on Dark Elves. BUT the series was good, and if for nothing else you got WAY more characterization of Gromph Banrae.
I think the comparison to surface elves and dwarves do not necessarily equate with Drow and Duergar. I LIKE When Duergar get kicked around. It puts them in their place, and keeps the stunties from getting to haughty.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 09:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Dark Elves for some reason have been a fascination for years. When the 1st ed Unearthed Arcana was released, and even before, the Dark Elf characters were popping up everywhere. I love dark elves, and YES I think it WAS an attempt to cahs in on Dark Elves. BUT the series was good, and if for nothing else you got WAY more characterization of Gromph Banrae.
I think the comparison to surface elves and dwarves do not necessarily equate with Drow and Duergar. I LIKE When Duergar get kicked around. It puts them in their place, and keeps the stunties from getting to haughty.
It`s not that fun for those of us who favour duergar over drow. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Zodian
Acolyte
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 03:36:52
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Hey... ya I was really bummed out when Pharaun died. The events do leave a lot of room for more books with these characters though(well character, seeing as most of my favourites were killed off).
Aliisza does have his finger, and the soulreaver did have a piece of his soul.. so I don't know, but the combination of the two could make a very interesting book where he's resurrected or brought back as a Lich? Its a fantasy book so anything can happen right lol. Theres still the Jaezred Chausslin(or however you spell it), theres the Tanaruks and the demon guy, Verhaun, and a bunch of other things. Pharaun seemed to only to really angry when something was done to him directly, so I imagine if he was brought back he would be really angry towards Quenthel and Lolth. Theres another thing that could be used as part of a plot... Agrach Dyrr, or that lich guy was almost as strong as Gromph, how strong would Pharaun be if he became a Lich somehow?
To me Pharaun seemed to tie the books together perfectly... without him they would have never succeeded, to me it seemed like he played a slightly larger role than the rest of them. I wasn't even really interested in any of the other characters, I only read it because of Pharaun. So yeah... my two cents, if they did make another book and Pharaun wasn't involved in it somehow I wouldn't be very compelled to read it.
Jeff |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 03:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
And they don't have it....so you're waiting...and waiting...getting frustrated..and frustrated?
Good. That's payback from my nation to yours for the War of 1812.
Sirius reminds everyone he has a long memory and took AP History.
R OTFL |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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brownfox
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 18:37:20
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What a series! Beginning w/ RAS’s creation of the Drow we know to the city of Menzo to a Realm's god evolution. Pulling for a band of evil-doers all the while.
Only bummer is Pharaun Mizzrum. Not bothered as much by Pharaun's death (good lord I hate to see him go), but by how he died. Calculating and self-preserving, he never placed himself in a vulnerable position, in fact I thought he was many steps ahead of anyone throughout. As soon as I saw he immobilized and then descend down to his "comrades", I reread the paragraph and wondered what was going on.
Why is he going down to this mix of opportunists? For aid or comfort?
Of course they’d kill him if they saw the chance & certainly if they know longer had need of the jibbing male. Maybe the slick battle rattled his previously unrattleable brain… |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 21:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by brownfox
Only bummer is Pharaun Mizzrum. Not bothered as much by Pharaun's death (good lord I hate to see him go), but by how he died. Calculating and self-preserving, he never placed himself in a vulnerable position, in fact I thought he was many steps ahead of anyone throughout. As soon as I saw he immobilized and then descend down to his "comrades", I reread the paragraph and wondered what was going on.
Why is he going down to this mix of opportunists? For aid or comfort?
Of course they’d kill him if they saw the chance & certainly if they know longer had need of the jibbing male. Maybe the slick battle rattled his previously unrattleable brain…
That is one of the major issues we Pharaun-fans have with his death. So far, we haven`t found a logical reason. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 21:35:55
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quote:
That is one of the major issues we Pharaun-fans have with his death. So far, we haven`t found a logical reason.
A well, Aliisza will clone him somehow and all will be ok (again). 
I think you underestimate the ultroloth a bit, except for that immobilization-spell he didn't do that much damage to Pharaun. Why not kill him outright if he's already stripped away Pharauns defenses? (Please correct me if I don't remember the scene correctly)
And what should he do, once stiff as a rod? Staying high up in the air would have resulted in one of the priestess sending a spell after him, or getting killed by Lolth after she was resurrected, even if he didn't die of bloodloss long before that (which was the reason he drifted down to Quenthel: for a healing spell). Sadly enough there was - if you consider every factor - really no escape for him. |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
Edited by - Braveheart on 20 Feb 2006 21:38:35 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 22:02:38
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| Well true resurection is better, clone certainly an option if the finger was taken while he was still alive. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 22:09:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well true resurection is better, clone certainly an option if the finger was taken while he was still alive.
She`ll probably ressurect him and use him as a sex toy.... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 00:02:48
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WARNING: Spoilers ahead!
Just read the final book, and was sorta disappointed by the ending, but at the same time it felt right. These are drow worshippers of Lolth, after all -- treachery, despair, and everyone getting ***** over is par for the course.
And you can keep Pharaun, cool as he was; I wanted Ryld to get out alive. At least he could have had a better death than getting shanked by Jeggred on the floor of a bar! |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 04:53:33
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| I also really liked Ryld at the beginning of the series as well. I hated Jeggred and didn't like him killing off one of my favorites but these things happen. I was a lot more interested in Ryld and Pharaun than I was in the priestesses (did I spelll that correctly?). |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 13:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I was a lot more interested in Ryld and Pharaun than I was in the priestesses (did I spelll that correctly?).
I totally agree. The priestesses were quite stereotypical most times, and when they started to differ (as in Halisstra), they were steered back into being your archetypical drow priestess.
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 11:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwizard
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I was a lot more interested in Ryld and Pharaun than I was in the priestesses (did I spelll that correctly?).
I totally agree. The priestesses were quite stereotypical most times, and when they started to differ (as in Halisstra), they were steered back into being your archetypical drow priestess.
Definitely. Ryld wasn`t your typical drow warrior, and Pharaun wasn`t your typical drow wizard. The priestesses on the other hand......... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:46:00
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Just read this novel and boy was it a fun ride, the entire series in fact. Resurrection has to be one of the most memorable FR books to date for many reasons.
SPOILERS
But anyway, here were some things I liked:
1. The epic battle at the end. Some might say the way Inthracis was practically just eliminated might have been a waste, but I say it set up a perfect imagery of the the ending--utter chaos.
2. Gromph in House Dyrr.
3. The three priestess standing on the ledge through Pharaun's POV. Definitely a defining moment in the Realms for me. Oh, and did I fail to mention that since alot of the Quenthel, Danifae, Pharaun, Jeggred story was told in Pharaun's POV was also a big plus.
4. The conflict between Quenthel-Pharaun and Danifae-Jeggred.
5. Danifae is the Yor'thae. Not her biggest fan, but I find her a VERY good and interesting villain. The entire scene with Lolth and the priestess is also memorable and rather shocking and interesting.
6. A lot more, but either I've forgotten, or they're minor things to mention and if I have to mention them, I'll have to mention ALOT of them.
And things I didn't like:
1. Hallistra. She bored me. At first when she had her internal conflict after meeting Seyll, she seemed interesting, but after the Teeming, where she finally decided on Eilistraee, she got boring. To make matters worse, she had to re-convert again, which I didn't like. Just gave me another person to hate.
2. While the scene where Hallistra and the Eilistraeans met with Quenthel's party seemed to be a major three-side fight with lots of confusion, it didn't really live up to potential. But then again there was the big fight at the end to cover for this.
3. Pharaun dying. Not a major flaw, just thought he could've been kept alive. Certainly would've been interesting.
4. The fact that the entire series mostly returned to how it started with not as many huge changes as expected. But it certainly isn't the author's fault for this, being bogged down by a set storyline anyway. Still was a great ride and loved every bit of it (even Book 4, which was my least favourite).
Some questions:
1. Anyone have any idea how Valas got out of the old Demonweb Pits? |
Edited by - Paec_djinn on 14 Aug 2006 16:48:32 |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Indeed. The duergar get rolled over irritatingly often.
Thats just because we're getting the story from the drow POV. When it's a duergar telling you what happened, those drow go down like pansies every time. 
More seriously -- yeah, for such a tough, nasty race (they survived, what, 5000 years of mind flayer slavery?) the duergar seem to get punked out with depressing ease. Not that the more usual dwarves seem to get any better treatment... |
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Ian-DV8
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 18:01:26
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| It's been said before but I was really put off by the way this series ended. Yes Lloth is a greater deity now but really other than the destruction of a few(I think it was a few) Drow cities it was a return to the status quo. For those who say " but she is a greater deity now!!" so what. She was always a greater deity to here followers. I would have liked to have seen a change to a patriarchy honestly. How much chaos would that have wrought? Answer:plenty. But instead what we have is the same old thing. Maybe we can move on and get some official stories about Vhaeraun and his "Surface Drow", Gods know I am sick to death of Menzoberazan(sp?) and that damn Drizzt. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Resurrection (WotSQ #6) - SPOILERS
