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Jasrya
Acolyte
Austria
5 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 10:39:43
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In which book from elaine is a star elf?
Jasrya |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 11:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasrya
In which book from elaine is a star elf?
Jasrya
Windwalker. Though, in the book, the character is never actually identified as a star elf. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 12:26:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Elaine having a star elf character didn't count? 
Nope. Not since to my knowledge, I have yet to encounter a reader who on the first go around knew she was a star elf. Of course, having just said that, I'm sure we are about to see dozens of posts, "Oh, I knew it all along..." |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 14:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Elaine having a star elf character didn't count?
Nope. Not since to my knowledge, I have yet to encounter a reader who on the first go around knew she was a star elf. Of course, having just said that, I'm sure we are about to see dozens of posts, "Oh, I knew it all along..."
Well, now that you mention it...
Oh, I knew it all along...  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 15:08:22
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| Somehow that '[Blood War' statement reminded me of Master Mizzyrym's...editorial regarding it....prompting the howl of protest from Mr. Belshazu |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 15:33:27
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quote:
Nope. Not since to my knowledge, I have yet to encounter a reader who on the first go around knew she was a star elf. Of course, having just said that, I'm sure we are about to see dozens of posts, "Oh, I knew it all along..."
This isn't my thread, so I'll be brief.
First, I'm a little puzzled by the comments that star elves were "finally" recognized in a novel, as this subrace was introduced in a fairly recent game product. Second, I did not openly state that Sharlarra was a star elf because this game product had not yet been released when I was writing Windwalker. I obtained a copy of the manuscript from WotC and read it for continuity, and also for ways to tie the novel more closely with the new lore. Because of the timing, I was trying to avoid NDA restrictions, not to mention territorial issues--I don't imagine game designers would be pleased to see their new creations unveiled elsewhere. A small matter of professional courtesy.
But I had no doubt that Sharlarra would be recognized for what she is. I've fielded quite a few questions about her race, some on the WotC message boards and some in email, and quite a few people made the connection without any trouble.
Writers who work in the Realms understand the depth and breadth of some readers' knowledge of FR lore, and know that small details which might be overlooked by the new or casual reader will be picked up with delight by others. (Some even add an occasional inside joke, such as references to a "Cledwell" statue in early FR books.) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 17:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Well, now that you mention it...
Oh, I knew it all along...
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 01:53:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Nope. Not since to my knowledge, I have yet to encounter a reader who on the first go around knew she was a star elf. Of course, having just said that, I'm sure we are about to see dozens of posts, "Oh, I knew it all along..."
This isn't my thread, so I'll be brief.
First, I'm a little puzzled by the comments that star elves were "finally" recognized in a novel, as this subrace was introduced in a fairly recent game product. Second, I did not openly state that Sharlarra was a star elf because this game product had not yet been released when I was writing Windwalker. I obtained a copy of the manuscript from WotC and read it for continuity, and also for ways to tie the novel more closely with the new lore. Because of the timing, I was trying to avoid NDA restrictions, not to mention territorial issues--I don't imagine game designers would be pleased to see their new creations unveiled elsewhere. A small matter of professional courtesy.
But I had no doubt that Sharlarra would be recognized for what she is. I've fielded quite a few questions about her race, some on the WotC message boards and some in email, and quite a few people made the connection without any trouble.
Writers who work in the Realms understand the depth and breadth of some readers' knowledge of FR lore, and know that small details which might be overlooked by the new or casual reader will be picked up with delight by others. (Some even add an occasional inside joke, such as references to a "Cledwell" statue in early FR books.)
Unfortunately I cannot comment on Windwalker yet, as I have not had the time to read this novel.  My only comment with respect to 'finally' is that mention of the Star Elves appears in a source (be it novel or otherwise, outside of the revamping in PGttFR) that adds much to the descriptor available for them. As for Windwalker, well, now I have to find a day and peruse this novel as well. Thank you for the explanation though, it's much appreciated and enlightening.  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 16:39:32
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Alright, I was also avoiding this thread until I had finished the book.
I liked a lot of this book. I really liked the idea that no one has really examined the political stand off near the Dales since Cormyr has been weakened. I like how Sarya juggled a lot of political factions together to help her, and I really like Malkzid lurking in the shadows, pulling the strings.
As to the earlier concerns about demons and devils working together . . . Sarya is using the Mythal to control the fiends. They are not coming together for a common cause or signing non agression treaties between the Hells and the Abyss, they are being summoned and controlled. Sarya knows how to summon demons, Malkzid is good at summoning devils and yugoloths . . . I guess it isn't that difficult for me to understand.
Now, for what I didn't particullarly like, or at least things that have me up in the air . . .
1) The drow of Jaelre and Auzkovyn are suppose to be a major force that threatened Myth Drannor, but they are just shuffled off to the side. I think it would be interesting to see Evermeet's army approached by Jaelre, Auzkovyn, or even the Elistraens. You think its unlikely to see demons and devils working together? I would love to at least see an attempt for the drow to enter the situation, though I think after the WOTSQ they are letting the drow lie low for now.
2) While I liked the idea of the Zhents, the Hillsfar forces, and the Sembians not feeling fettered by Cormyr check to their power, I also liked the fact that they also backstabbed each other and essentially created a new balance of power . . . except . . .
We seem to be back to the "Zhents can't pull off anything" issue again. The Zhents are more or less manipulated by Sarya and goaded by Malthiir, and then they are the only force that really have their collective arses handed to them by Evermeets army in this book.
3) This is less of a complaint or critique than anything . . . is Hillsfar going to survive this? Sarya stopped short of razing the city, but she seems pretty intent on hammering Malthiir (who comes across much better than either Fzoul or Scyllua in this book). |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 16:44:05
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On a private note . . . I really hope my players don't get around to reading this book for a while. Our group is set in Mistledale, and that means they have about two years from the current date (in the campaign) to enjoy the peace and quiet . . .
Heck, they have been very good so far at acting like their character don't know that Tilverton is going to go the way of the Shadows . . . |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 17:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As to the earlier concerns about demons and devils working together . . . Sarya is using the Mythal to control the fiends. They are not coming together for a common cause or signing non agression treaties between the Hells and the Abyss, they are being summoned and controlled. Sarya knows how to summon demons, Malkzid is good at summoning devils and yugoloths . . . I guess it isn't that difficult for me to understand.
This makes sense until the devils leave the mythal, then they could have just left Faerun or ignored the orders of a tanar'ri-spawn. Sorry, but I just don't buy this. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 17:28:15
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I could be wrong, but looking back at the first book, it seems like if Sarya summons them with the Mythal, she retains control of them as long as she controls the Mythal, but the creatures summoned and controlled would not have to be within the Mythal to be controlled. Otherwise, a lot of demons must have decided they liked Sarya when she sent them to Evermeet and toward Evereska.
But I may have misread or misinterpreted something. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 18:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I could be wrong, but looking back at the first book, it seems like if Sarya summons them with the Mythal, she retains control of them as long as she controls the Mythal, but the creatures summoned and controlled would not have to be within the Mythal to be controlled. Otherwise, a lot of demons must have decided they liked Sarya when she sent them to Evermeet and toward Evereska.
But I may have misread or misinterpreted something.
Okay but this still doesn't explain why the devils that were in Myth Dranor for years, just didn't leave when she released them from the Mythal. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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RichardBaker
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
129 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 20:17:30
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I am aware of the apparent contradiction of devils and demons fighting on the same side, and there is an explanation. It'll be made more clear in Final Gate, but a few clues and hints are already out there in some deeply buried Realmslore.
I'm also aware of when various mythals were raised, too. The "Last Mythal" isn't a mistake, although the spot I have in mind will probably come as something of a surprise.
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I could be wrong, but looking back at the first book, it seems like if Sarya summons them with the Mythal, she retains control of them as long as she controls the Mythal, but the creatures summoned and controlled would not have to be within the Mythal to be controlled. Otherwise, a lot of demons must have decided they liked Sarya when she sent them to Evermeet and toward Evereska.
But I may have misread or misinterpreted something.
Okay but this still doesn't explain why the devils that were in Myth Dranor for years, just didn't leave when she released them from the Mythal. :)
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Rich Baker
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 20:19:09
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I think the Mythral is being used as a leash. If they try to run, Sarya sees this and can force them back to Myth Drannor. Also I think it is implied that the Mythral could be used to make things worse for the devils, demons and 'loths. Like binding of powers or weaking them.
Holding that much power might make the fiends co-operate... for now! |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 21:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardBaker
I am aware of the apparent contradiction of devils and demons fighting on the same side, and there is an explanation. It'll be made more clear in Final Gate, but a few clues and hints are already out there in some deeply buried Realmslore.
I'm also aware of when various mythals were raised, too. The "Last Mythal" isn't a mistake, although the spot I have in mind will probably come as something of a surprise.
Sounds good Rich. And I'm not trying to be that judgement about this I just want a good reason why. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 02:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by RichardBaker
I am aware of the apparent contradiction of devils and demons fighting on the same side, and there is an explanation. It'll be made more clear in Final Gate, but a few clues and hints are already out there in some deeply buried Realmslore.
I'm also aware of when various mythals were raised, too. The "Last Mythal" isn't a mistake, although the spot I have in mind will probably come as something of a surprise.
Sounds good Rich. And I'm not trying to be that judgement about this I just want a good reason why. :)
Thanks for the tidbit about the relationship between demons and devils Rich.
Like Kuje earlier, I was a little confused on this point about demons and devils working together, as I said earlier in the scroll. However, I'm all for a clearer reason for why such a relationship now exists.
I'm looking forward to Final Gate all the more now  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Jul 2005 02:58:20 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 08:45:21
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I haven't managed to locate this novel in the stores yet  But a friend of mine is currently reading this and says that the two thirds he's read so far are pretty much nothing more than a recap of the previous novel  Obviously some other events are underway but largely he got this feeling. Is this correct?
In addition, he stated that there was a lot of repetative dialog, with characters stating the same facts to numerous other characters. Another point mentioned was that there was a lot of game mechanic speak such as explaining how mage's have to learn spells again each day etc.
Regardless, i'm still looking forward to the novel. I'm expecting a typical middle-novel style but if the flavor is anything like the first book, then i'll be happy |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 10:37:33
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| I really liked it overall, with the exception of of the Zhents getting the short end of the stick again (but then again, the whole thing isn't over yet). There was a bit of middle book drag, but not to a rediculous degree. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 14:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I really liked it overall, with the exception of of the Zhents getting the short end of the stick again (but then again, the whole thing isn't over yet). There was a bit of middle book drag, but not to a rediculous degree.
Well, the Zhents weren't the only one... Hillsfar and Sembia are now a lot worse for wear, too. It just goes to show you evil will never work with evil for very long, especially when all three parties were of equal power.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 16:29:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I haven't managed to locate this novel in the stores yet But a friend of mine is currently reading this and says that the two thirds he's read so far are pretty much nothing more than a recap of the previous novel Obviously some other events are underway but largely he got this feeling. Is this correct?
I disagree with that statement. There is a great deal of set up for what I think was the latter part of the novel and book three. However, I don't feel it could be called simply a recap.
quote:
Regardless, i'm still looking forward to the novel. I'm expecting a typical middle-novel style but if the flavor is anything like the first book, then i'll be happy
I think it definitely retains the flavor you mention. I think the novel's biggest weaknesses are not having more pages and that there is so much going on. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 14 Jul 2005 16:30:41 |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 17:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I haven't managed to locate this novel in the stores yet But a friend of mine is currently reading this and says that the two thirds he's read so far are pretty much nothing more than a recap of the previous novel Obviously some other events are underway but largely he got this feeling. Is this correct?
I disagree with that statement. There is a great deal of set up for what I think was the latter part of the novel and book three. However, I don't feel it could be called simply a recap.
quote:
Regardless, i'm still looking forward to the novel. I'm expecting a typical middle-novel style but if the flavor is anything like the first book, then i'll be happy
I think it definitely retains the flavor you mention. I think the novel's biggest weaknesses are not having more pages and that there is so much going on.
I too am only two-thirds of the way through,and I also disagree with your friend Lord Rad.Yes there is some recapping of what went on in the first book,but it by no means is a run of the mill second book.Grant it there hasn't been as much fighting as in the first one.Though there are a lot of players in this.The Riders of Mistledale,Fzoul,and a few others.As SB says there is much going on here.It's well worth the read so far |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 01:04:17
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I find that the second book is full of new action with many new things. But like any good second novel, it does recap for a paragraph or so just to help someone who never read the first book. But overall, I find that the book very hardly repeats anything that isn't directly involved in the current plot.
Plus, that silly gold elf Araevin needs to leave my girl, Sarya, alone. :)
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Myssa Rei
Acolyte
Philippines
22 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 01:51:38
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*Jabs eyes with her pencil*
I really shouldn't have perused this thread before buying the novel (which, it so happens, hasn't arrived here in the Philippine yet). Not that I'm thoroughly spoiled, mind you, but all those eensy-weensy spoilers got my mind going off in all sorts of tangents... And that's bad.
Must. Buy. Book. SOON. |
Never underestimate the power of a good story. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 02:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Plus, that silly gold elf Araevin needs to leave my girl, Sarya, alone. :)
C-Fb
Yeah, I'm sure Sarya just needs a good talking to from some authority figure and she'll settle right down. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 04:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Yeah, I'm sure Sarya just needs a good talking to from some authority figure and she'll settle right down.
"Remember, kids: Just say 'No!' to evil!" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 04:18:03
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Yes, I'm sure Sarya just needs someone to firmly take her over their knee and spank her until she repents . . .
um . . .
nevermind. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 05:31:29
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| Oh, Sarya can be a bad, bad girl all she likes here... |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 15:54:42
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Alright I'm all finished.Great read IMO,and as I stated before.I don't believe that it was your run of the mill middle novel.It picked up right where the first one ended.Yes there was some recapping,but there has to be.Unlike me.Some people only read the first book once.I read it twice.They may have forgotten some things.
I think that there is going to be a really big showdown between Aeravin and Sarya.I can't wait for it.I'm not really sure if I understand really what Aeravin has become?Is he part Eladrin now?Can't wait to find out.Will this effect his betrothal to Ilsevele?As the story goes on I kind of feel that it is doomed.What will Seiveril do now that he is in retreat.Is there a possibilty that the Zhents will help.How about Hillsfar???Now that they realize that the daemonfey are against them as well?
I have many more questions that can only be answered in the final novel.So I anxiously await for the last of this great trilogy so that some, if not all of my questions will be answered.. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 17:17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I'm not really sure if I understand really what Aeravin has become?Is he part Eladrin now?
Rich said on the WOTC boards that Aeravin is now a celestial. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Farthest Reach (The Last Mythal Book II) Spoilers
