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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 16:22:34
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| I'd think Malkiizid's horizons are broader than your average archdevil. He's a fallen Solar after all. In this case, the demons and devils are practically being controlled/forced into servitude by Sarya and Malkizid. |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 16:36:31
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| I'm not saying that the rationale is very strong but I could possibly see some devils momentarily working with the demons in order to obtain their freedom from Myth Drannor. Granted, it still doesn't mesh particularly well with the Blood War. Ah well, I'll suspend my disbelief to the artistic license for purposes of the novel. |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 16:45:06
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| Well some of the Devils work for Malkiizid, and the others were trapped in the Mythal before the Demonfey arived. So they may be under Sarya's control because she control's the Mythal. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 18:30:22
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I think Sarya used a stick-and-carrot approach against the devils - the stick being the threat of retribution from herself (and manipulating the mythal against them) and Malkizid, and the carrot being changing the mythal to let them escape Myth Drannor.
Still, who knows? For now the devils and demons may seem to be obeying Sarya and cooperating (or at least not attacking each other), but I wouldn't be surprised if, in The Final Gate, they turned on each other. |
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Bane_the_Dark_Lord
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 20:44:29
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| I'm just about to start this having finished Forsaken House. Without giving anything away is it as good? (some series the 2nd novel seems to slack off. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 02:40:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Bane_the_Dark_Lord
I'm just about to start this having finished Forsaken House. Without giving anything away is it as good? (some series the 2nd novel seems to slack off.
I finished it last night. To me, it was a typical middle novel. It's a good tome, but it was not as much fun for this reader as the first book for the trilogy. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 01:50:16
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Two thoughts...
I have been informed multiple times that Aasimar and Tieflings cover Planetouched of the non-human races. So I was thinking. What if the Fey'ri are the result of the Rite of Transformation between the Elves and Demons, altering the Planetouched lines to hold more Demonic nature.
If so, Would Araevin's Rite of transformation lead to Eldrinfey?
Also in the second book, about page 168, Elminster, the Knights of Myth Drannor followed by the Simbul go on an important track through a portal involving the Shrinee (Sorry for the spelling.). Could this be leading to the return of the Crownblade.
If so, My guess for the wielder might be Ilsevele. There is a section that hints of greater wisdom and Araevin thinks that she might hold a great fate.
These are just speculations. Tell me your thoughts on them. Thanks. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 01:55:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
If so, Would Araevin's Rite of transformation lead to Eldrinfey?
Nice term.
quote:
Also in the second book, about page 168, Elminster, the Knights of Myth Drannor followed by the Simbul go on an important track through a portal involving the Shrinee (Sorry for the spelling.). Could this be leading to the return of the Crownblade.
Oh, you think big. I like that. But, what were Shrinshee's (probably spelled it wrong last words when she took the blade? I thought it was something about living in harmony together again. If so, I see the blade returning, but not in this trilogy.
I think this trilogy's ending will leave a great many more ?'s than answers. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 02:06:46
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| Rich said on the WOTC boards, today, that Araevin's transformation made him into a celestial. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 04:35:49
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The Srinshee? What? Spill, people, spill!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 05:35:08
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Srinshee? What? Spill, people, spill!
-- George Krashos
Not much to spill. :) She was just given a passing mention on why she wasn't around to know that the Mythal of Myth Drannor was taken over by the fey'ri. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 15:24:25
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| For those that enjoy tales involving House Dlardrageth, this Green Regency backstory features a member from this house. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 04:14:38
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Is interesting how the Mythal around Myth Drannor suddenly became a moot point and another Mythal is more important at the end.
I thought the Mythal referred to at the end was Myth Drannor's Mythal. I don't remember Araevin saying anything about a different Mythal in his vision of all the opening doors. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 05:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Freakboy
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Is interesting how the Mythal around Myth Drannor suddenly became a moot point and another Mythal is more important at the end.
I thought the Mythal referred to at the end was Myth Drannor's Mythal. I don't remember Araevin saying anything about a different Mythal in his vision of all the opening doors.
It can't be Myth Drannors since that cities didn't exist during Aryvandaar. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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joshaway
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 16:01:38
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| I was under the impression that they had to destroy Myth Drannor's mythal to stop the Demonfaey and their Archdevilish friend from doing some very naughty things with it. Araevin just realized that Malkiziid was teaching Sarya Mythalcraft, and that she was born for the highmagic spells that he had to transform himself to be able to cast them safely. Since he has seen the spells from that nifty gem of his, he's seen some of what they can do. Thats got him worried about leaving the mythal in the hands of his foes. |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2005 : 22:30:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Freakboy
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Is interesting how the Mythal around Myth Drannor suddenly became a moot point and another Mythal is more important at the end.
I thought the Mythal referred to at the end was Myth Drannor's Mythal. I don't remember Araevin saying anything about a different Mythal in his vision of all the opening doors.
It can't be Myth Drannors since that cities didn't exist during Aryvandaar.
Good point Kuje. I guess all will be made clear in Final Gate. I suppose it is possible that Rich didn't think about Myth Drannor not existing in Aryvandar, but it is more likely it really is a different mythal. I don't really know where, but the story seemed to imply the Mythal in question was one of the most powerful, and thus Araevin's fear of the greater threat to Faerun. If you have any theories on where they might be referring to I would love to hear them. I am not all that familiar with ancient elven history in the Realms. I have Lost Empires and I suppose I could read that to see if I can come up with an idea, but you are certainly a better fount of knowledge on Realmslore than myself. |
Edited by - Freakboy on 10 Jul 2005 22:34:58 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2005 : 22:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by FreakboyGood point Kuje. I guess all will be made clear in Final Gate. I suppose it is possible that Rich didn't think about Myth Drannor not existing in Aryvandar, but it is more likely it really is a different mythal. I don't really know where, but the story seemed to imply the Mythal in question was one of the most powerful, and thus Araevin's fear of the greater threat to Faerun. If you have any theories on where they might be referring to I would love to hear them. I am not all that familiar with ancient elven history in the Realms. I have Lost Empires and I suppose I could read that to see if I can come up with an idea, but you are certainly a better fount of knowledge on Realmslore than myself.
I have no idea what Mythal of Aryvandaar he's referencing at the end of the novel. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Jul 2005 22:44:39 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2005 : 23:31:04
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Also the time of the Mythral is not mentioned. It could be from the beginning or the end of the Empire. Also the location could be anywhere as the Empire had gained control of most of the other settlements of the time that ranged from northern Faerun to near the heartlands.
So it might be possible the Mythral could be near Waterdeep, in Cormanthor or even at Evermeet itself (That had settlers from the Empire). Hundreds of locations to ponder...
And remember, people including elves have built on top of ruins before. Even possibly Mythral ruins. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 10 Jul 2005 23:32:34 |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:00:41
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I believe that last mythal of Aryvandaar would most likely reside in high forest (the original realm of Aryvandaar itself) because:
1) Miyeritar was completely destroyed
2) Shantel Othreier was completely destroyed
3) Illefarn lived
4) Illythiri was never occupied by Aryvandaar
5) Keltomir was never annexed by Aryvandaar
6) The 4 minor realms south of Keltomir were all destroyed by Illythiri
Prediction of the last mythal city's identity:
1) Sharlarion (The capitrol of Aryvandaar)
2) Myth Adolfhaer (The lost city of Siluvanede, a descendant realm with strong ties with ancient Aryvandaar)
Also, I am sure the threat posed by this last mythal has a connection to Malkizid. Perhaps the fallen solar decides to use this thing as a device to free himself. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:24:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Page 14 of the FRCS says the Retreat is over. :) So that was 2 in game years before the events in Rich's novels.
Thanks Kuje, that is exactly what I needed. I thought Wooly was referring to something specific, I just couldn't figure out what it was.
I was indeed referring to that. 
Sorry for not replying earlier, but after a few posts, I decided to avoid this thread until after I read the book. Since I read it yesterday, I'm now getting caught up on this thread. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:25:59
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Ty
I'm glad that the Star Elves are finally addressed in some manner in a novel and serve an actual purpose other than 'Here's another elf race...'
Yes, while I still think the star elves did not need to be added to the Realms, I'm glad some author is finally including them in a novel.
Elaine having a star elf character didn't count?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:41:13
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I don't think Sharlarion was the capital of Aryvandaar. If anything, it was likely the capital of early Ilythiir - IIRC, it was destroyed in the Sundering according to "Evermeet" by EC.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:50:14
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I just read this book yesterday.
I really enjoyed it. Some of the elements I particularly liked:
Sarya trying to use Maalthiir, and her response to his failing to play along (I'd forgotten that he was a wizard).
I like the depiction of Silëyuir, and what was happening to it.
I'm also quite eager to see just where Seiveril founds his new realm -- I really like the idea that he's going to do that.
Things I didn't so much care for:
The fey'ri casually taking over Myth Drannor.
The fact that the drow hanging out in that vicinity are all conveniently engaged elsewhere.
Lathander's temple did not stand within city limits -- it was well outside the city. I'd have rather seen it not mentioned at all, instead of being relocated and destroyed in a single sentence.
The Zhents were routed awfully easily, and Sarya was too quick to turn on the Sembians and Hillsfar. Sure, they didn't do what she wanted, but that didn't mean she couldn't use them again, later.
Grimmar? Is there any other recorded example of the folk of Shadowdale calling themselves this? Page 263 says the folk of Shadowdale prefer to call themselves this, after Castle Grimstead, but I can't recall ever hearing this term before. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:54:30
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Sharlarion is the predecessor and a city of Aryvandaar.
The Ilythiiri city was called Atorrnash |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 00:57:16
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| Actually. Now that you mentioned Elaine Cunningham's book as reference, please do read p. 164. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 01:31:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Grimmar? Is there any other recorded example of the folk of Shadowdale calling themselves this? Page 263 says the folk of Shadowdale prefer to call themselves this, after Castle Grimstead, but I can't recall ever hearing this term before.
You're right Wooly, that particular term doesn't sound familiar. Although, it does sound like a little random tidbit that Volo may have learned during his travels through the Dalelands.
Strangely though, VGttD has little on this. There may be something in th 2e tome on Shadowdale that came with the revised boxed set, but I can't look at the moment.
Kuje? Krash?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 Jul 2005 01:32:29 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 06:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo
Sharlarion is the predecessor and a city of Aryvandaar.
The Ilythiiri city was called Atorrnash
Yep, you're exactomundo correct - my bad. That's what I get for posting from work without my rows of books smack-bang next to me.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 06:44:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Grimmar? Is there any other recorded example of the folk of Shadowdale calling themselves this? Page 263 says the folk of Shadowdale prefer to call themselves this, after Castle Grimstead, but I can't recall ever hearing this term before.
You're right Wooly, that particular term doesn't sound familiar. Although, it does sound like a little random tidbit that Volo may have learned during his travels through the Dalelands.
Strangely though, VGttD has little on this. There may be something in th 2e tome on Shadowdale that came with the revised boxed set, but I can't look at the moment.
Kuje? Krash?
The only Grimmar that comes to mind is a totally different one - Grimmar from the "Ecology of the Ochre Jelly", a Cormyrean officer of the army - such as it was in those times.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 08:56:35
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I still think that Araevin was methaphorically referring to Myth Drannors Mythal. Quote: "With a sudden shock, he perceived the true peril that was rising in the heart of Cormanthor. Doors, he thought. A thousand doors. And they are wide open". Unquote
I think this means that Sarya has opened so many portals in Myth Drannor that the weave of reality or something is becoming unstable, that the Blood War is about to spill onto Toril through said portals, or something similar.
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Farthest Reach (The Last Mythal Book II) Spoilers
