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eomer
Acolyte
Russia
28 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 13:11:58
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Hello!
It's me again.  With questions about geografic names
Is Zhentil Keep named after some Zhentil?
Is there some source for the name Zhentil Keep?
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Yours Faithfully, Konstantin aka Eomer |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 13:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by eomer
Hello!
It's me again. With questions about geografic names
Is Zhentil Keep named after some Zhentil?
Is there some source for the name Zhentil Keep?
The Zhentil keep is named after a Mage called Zhentar. Zhentar killed off the orgional owners of Flostren's Hold (The former name of Zhentil keep) Zhentar killed off most of the merchant council that ruled Flostrens hold and replaced them with his own allies, however he was eventually found out and he was killed. Zhentars allies renamed the settlement Zhentil keep in his honour
Ive often though wouldnt it be a cool if Zhentar is pulling the same trick Blackstaffs pulling (ie seeming to die then adapting someones identity.) Makes me wonder if Manshoon is Zhentars current persona......... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 14:48:43
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As I don't own that box set, did Zhentar originally set up the Zhentarim, as well?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 15:04:41
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No. The Zhentarim are purely Manshoon's creation.
Most date the creation of the Zhentarim, in some way, shape, or form, as 1270 DR... but the foundations of the Black Network lay nearly a decade before that date. It wasn't until Manshoon's ascension as First Lord in 1261 DR, that the Zhentarim gained any particularly great prominence in Zhentil Keep.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 02:56:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No. The Zhentarim are purely Manshoon's creation.
Most date the creation of the Zhentarim, in some way, shape, or form, as 1270 DR... but the foundations of the Black Network lay nearly a decade before that date. It wasn't until Manshoon's ascension as First Lord in 1261 DR, that the Zhentarim gained any particularly great prominence in Zhentil Keep.
Given some outlying references that are a tad screwy date-wise, I'd say that Manshoon's Zhentarim are the latest incarnation of this group and that the name has been used by other groups in Zhentil Keep prior to that. But that's just my way of having some leeway when I do my inevitable Dalelands/Moonsea timeline.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 05:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Given some outlying references that are a tad screwy date-wise, I'd say that Manshoon's Zhentarim are the latest incarnation of this group and that the name has been used by other groups in Zhentil Keep prior to that. But that's just my way of having some leeway when I do my inevitable Dalelands/Moonsea timeline.
-- George Krashos
I do like that idea, and it's similar to something I've tinkered around with myself regarding the foundation of *this* incarnation of the Zhentarim.
Ideally, I think Manshoon would likely have sought out some of the old hangers-on from these former groups... with the intention to either eradicate them (thus giving his own formation more legitimacy) or to make use of their efforts with the hope of adding them to *his* Black Network as a whole.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Oct 2005 05:21:27 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 05:46:33
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Hmm
Xvim (the Baneson) had invaded and ruled Westgate between 710 and 734 DR, 16 years later Elephston would find Zhentar, a mage who would go on to allow the founding of a church of Bane Flostren's Hold.
Theory: I wonder if Zhentar might have been an Arcane Devotee of Bane and he may have been part of the army Xvim used to invade Zhentil Keep..........
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 07:23:02
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Not to mention that Zhentil Keep, just like Illusk/Luskan has a group of "Old Ones" (lich wizards) who live there still. One would think that these earlier wizards were part of the earlier Zhentarim incarnations.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 14:23:32
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Xvim was alive that long? I thought he didn't come to promenence until after the ToT? Or is that just the first time we really paid attention to him?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 14:40:38
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Iyactu Xvim seized the throne of Westgate in 710 DR after a portal direct from the Abyss opened above the city. Xvim was the leader of the tiefling horde, the "Fiend King", that emerged from the portal and attacked Westgate.
Faiths & Avatars has the full story of Xvim. We know that after his birth -- the result of his father Bane's union with a greater tanar'ri -- he acted mostly as Bane's instrument in the Realms... doing his father's bidding. Supposedly, it wasn't until Bane's apparent demise during the Time of Troubles at the hands of Torm, that Xvim declared his "independence" gaining a measure of power and prominence among the celestial hierarchy.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2005 : 15:13:35
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Only to lose it 12-13 years later. I, at least, hope Bane picked a Marilith. 
Thanks, Sage - I forgot about that write up in Faiths and Avatars. Guess I know which book I'll take with me today to read at work!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 00:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Only to lose it 12-13 years later. I, at least, hope Bane picked a Marilith.
Thanks, Sage - I forgot about that write up in Faiths and Avatars. Guess I know which book I'll take with me today to read at work!
C-Fb
I much prefer the corrupted Paladin story than the Demon |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 02:05:32
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C'mon, he can't have two stories!!!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 02:20:05
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
C'mon, he can't have two stories!!!
C-Fb
I prefer that fact. It leaves Xvim's origins all mysterious.
Of course, I lean more towards the tanar'ri origin story, mostly because it relates well with my additional thoughts on the whole tiefling horde scenario.
And truth be known, most people in the Realms likely do not know how, where, or when Xvim was born.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 03:02:54
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Well, he was obviously only ever a host for a spark of Bane's power. A deific insurance policy if you will. So he may well have been a construct, like an Alias-vessel, and given a 'back story' to obscure his true purpose and origins.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 03:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, he was obviously only ever a host for a spark of Bane's power. A deific insurance policy if you will. So he may well have been a construct, like an Alias-vessel, and given a 'back story' to obscure his true purpose and origins.
-- George Krashos
There is that theory... But there's another theory I've come up with: Iyachtu Xvim was totally independent of his father. He wasn't created for any specific purpose; he was his own being.
But... Xvim seized some of Bane's old portfolios. When Fzoul was doing everything he could to strengthen Xvim, part of that included taking out Baneliches and the like. Xvim absorbed the power formerly held by the Baneliches, gaining some of his father's divine essence.
Once he'd absorbed enough of his father's essence, the bits of Bane in him hit critical mass. Everything that was Xvim was overwhelmed and burned away, and Bane was reborn. It wouldn't have happened if it was someone else, but the fact that it was Bane's own son absorbing the divine essence enabled it to react in this way.
Looking at it that way, Xvim is more the victim of a possession than an insurance policy. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Oct 2005 04:06:40 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 06:04:43
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Sounds just as good, Wooly boy, just as good.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 14:15:16
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That's true - but then I guess that leaves the onus on me to make the decision on the truth - but then again, that's why I DM. Where is the source of the corrupted paladin story? I read Faiths & Avatars about him, already, but I should get that other view down.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1730 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 15:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Sounds just as good, Wooly boy, just as good.
-- George Krashos
And what's even more nefarious is if we postulate that Khelben knew this to be a likely outcome to the whole scenario....which leads one to wonder if he has an insurance policy against Bane that would lead him to undo Xvim to restore a god he knows he holds an ace card against.... 
Steven
Whistling merrily past the graveyard...making the spooks wonder what he's up to..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2005 : 16:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Sounds just as good, Wooly boy, just as good.
-- George Krashos
And what's even more nefarious is if we postulate that Khelben knew this to be a likely outcome to the whole scenario....which leads one to wonder if he has an insurance policy against Bane that would lead him to undo Xvim to restore a god he knows he holds an ace card against....
Steven
Whistling merrily past the graveyard...making the spooks wonder what he's up to.....
Are you a sadist, Steven, for leaving these tidbits all over the place and not telling the whole story?
Ps. Just kidding. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Why is Zhentil Keep named like that?
