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Khaa
Seeker
USA
80 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 14:09:13
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I recently did a speech for one of my classes of the age old controversy. I was wondering, has anyone ever really looked into it other than me? Most people would be surprised at the overwhelming support for D&D i found while the desperate protests of how "evil" at it.
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Ever want another forum? Well try out www.icewinddale.com |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 14:22:36
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Well, I have given a multitude of speeches throughout my college career. I haven't found too much of the hate that D&D once engendered (thank you LotR). What I really found is a lot of confusion and nonchalance concerning it. For my senior marketing project, I created a FLGS. Most people had no idea what I was walking about until I mentioned Pokemon or Magic. While those are good and well, it upset me that most people had no idea what D&D was anymore. The project did get an A, so it wasn't all bad - but that's just because I'm a good speaker. 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 17:32:32
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I think the D&D is evil trend is over. I think the stigma surrounding D&D now is a geek thing.
So which is better?
If you play D&D you're evil or
If you play D&D you're a geek.
Really, it doesn't make a difference to me, but I do think the stigma has changed. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 17:47:24
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Most people have moved on from the D&D evil thing. Those still fixated on anything magical or referring to the supernatural being automatically evil and thus unworthy of being veiwed, read, etc. have moved on to Harry Potter.
I can deal with being labeled as a geek. Having been raised a Lutheran and now being a Catholic, it was quite hurtful and frustrating to spend my high school years telling people why I wasn't a satanist. I even ran a D&D game for my sunday school class in order to show my teachers what the game was really like when the started to do a unit on evil things in the culture, D&D being one of them.
I would also like to point out that during that same time, there was also a group of phychologists that, without any religous connotations, also were saying that the mentioning of death and destruction, emphasis on fantasy, and the creation of alernate identities was going to completely warp and twist young minds. So there was a secular and a religeous front to the attacks, and the secular actually got a bit more attention for a while (anyone remember that horrid Tom Hanks movie?)
So now, Harry Potter and Video Games are now what is corruption and damaging our youth. Its funny though, becuase you can find societies complaining about the decadence and warping of their youth going all the way back to the Greeks, complaining about the music of thier youth and their long hair and the like.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 21:47:38
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| yeah, now its pretty much "you're a geek". However, in the IT industry, there's not a single male between say 27 and 40 that won't admit to having tried it. Many only played one or two games... but they did try it. Then of course, there's dozens who freely admit afterwards that they loved the gold box games and behind those are the ones who play MMORPG's of one sort or another. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Malarick
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 22:25:27
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There is that Geek Chic now, and since people like Vin Diesel admitted to being fans of D&D it is considered a little more cool to play RPG's.
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Malarick
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 23:09:21
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I can't see D&D being controversial on ethical or religious grounds outside of a very religiously conservative setting, like an evangelical Bible college.
"This is corrupting our youth!" has been the cry of social conservatives throughout time. It is why Socrates was made to drink hemlock. But what precisely is corrupting the youth of the day changes over time, from the subversive music of Elvis Presley to the recent fad amongst teens for gambling at poker (saw that in the paper two days ago).
D&D has not been high on the villain list for a long time. White Wolf trumped D&D with the scare over teen blood-drinking cults ten years ago. Now roleplaying is simply a fringe hobby like Civil War reencatment or model airplanes, and the only people who still worry that it is diabolical are those who protest that celebrating Hallowe'en is devil worship. |
Edited by - Vangelor on 07 Dec 2005 23:10:45 |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 00:23:32
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| Most people I know have heard of D&D but honestly could not tell you what it is. I only played one campaign with my older brothers and one of thier friends but after they went to college I didn't know anyone else that ran one so that was my first and last time. I have played a few of the MMPORPG more recently though. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 02:43:36
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I think the way most people learn about D&D is their older siblings, or their friends' older siblings. That's how I learned. The first time I saw a D&D book was when my best friend in 3rd grade brought over his Deities and Demigods book (with Cthulu). We were enthralled and the collection therein. After a few years, and a move to California - I ended up collection all the 1st edition books, which I still look at regularly.
Seriously, you can't beat titles for every level of every class!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Berzerker_prime
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 04:59:16
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I can't say that I've heard the D&D = evil argument too terribly recently. What I do keep hearing are the people who are convinced that because it's called a "game" there has to be someone who wins. In fact, I recently had the following conversation with a co-worker.
"D&D, that's, like, Dungeons and Dragons, right?"
"Yeah. Role playing game."
"So, how do you play it?"
"You make a character that has certain values applied to their skills and you roll dice against those numbers to see if you succeed at tasks or not. Depending on what happens, the story moves along."
"How long does it usually take to play?"
"Depends on the group. A really good group can play the same game for years."
"Don't they ever sleep?"
"What?"
"If they're playing for years, then..."
"Oh! No, off and on, usually by a few hours at a time."
"So, you just pick up where you left off?"
"Yeah, then keep going with the story line."
"So, how do you win?"
"What?"
"Winning? Who wins the game? What do you have to do to win? Like, kill off the other characters or something?"
"What are you talking about?"
"It's a game, right?"
"Yeah."
"So, there's gotta be a winner."
"Well, I suppose you could say that everyone wins as long as the story keeps going and it stays fun."
"So, it's a game with no winner?"
And it was about here that I finally comprehended that we were not on the same wavelength by a long shot and that he was missing the point entirely, so I switched tactics.
"Well, it's really not so much a game as it is a method of group story telling."
"Oh! Okay, so it's really like, you write a little bit and pass it on to the next guy who writes a bit and so on?"
"Yep! Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but yeah, that's more or less it."
"Okay. So, where do the dice come in, then? Couldn't you just say that whatever happens happens."
No, he still didn't get it. I obviously needed to appeal to a lower denominator.
"It's like 'bang! You're dead!' but with dice to determine whether or not you really are dead."
"Ooooh!!!"
And the lightbulb finally went on!
I'm still not entirely sure he gets the whole idea and understands why I play, but I think he does have a bit more of an inkling of what's involved, now. But really, I'm just satisfied that he doesn't seem to want to ask me about it any more for fear that I will actually start talking about it and he'll have to listen to be polite.
It's the nerd self-preservation tactic! Bore the jack***es to death so they won't bug you! 
Sweet water to you!
Berz.
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*******
Berzerker_prime
Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lĂº aphadad govatham.
Gaming quote of the week:
"Why does everyone assume I have a plan?"
"Because you were giving the orders!"
- Scondora and Elara, Fellowship of the Ever-Falling Troll.
RIP Alton Goodbarrel. We shalt always remember thee for thy ability to find traps... the hard way... even when yon 350 lb Dwarf walks over them first without triggering them. |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 06:28:40
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When I went and go my first piercing I was in the waiting room at the tattoo shop and in with their tattoo art albulms they had D&D books people looked through for tattoos.
I know what you mean about people thinking since it is a game that you can win. I played soem of the MMPORPG like everquest and my friends would come over and see me playing and would aks if I was winning or if I almost beat the game yet. I would try and explian that there was no end to the game and it went over there head. |
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Khaa
Seeker
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2005 : 13:07:26
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| I was also looking up and in my speech told how some colleges offer D&D for a class to help reduce stress. Also, Some phsychologists play the game with gifted kids to help promote the growth of their imagination. |
Ever want another forum? Well try out www.icewinddale.com |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2005 : 06:57:49
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I remember in 9th grade, I was picked first amongst everyone in my Speech I class by the dreaded ‘magic pen’ to give an informative speech on the spot.
All we got was 5 minutes warning that on that day we’d be doing ‘cold’ speeches, and that we had to pick three topics to turn in to the teacher when the five minutes were up. He then selected students at random with that damnable pen of his and told us (once we got to the podium) which of the three topics we’d written down that he wanted us to talk about.
For me he chose ‘DnD isn’t about Devil Worship’ (I think that’s what I’d written down).
Anyway, I remember not getting docked for running too long, because lots of people had (surprisingly to me) non-hostile questions to ask after I laid out the basics of how the game worked.
It was at that point that I realized a few important facts: I was only one of maybe three people in my entire class that played Dungeons and Dragons; virtually none of the ‘we wear our religion on our shoulder’ people (who were a majority) in my grade were as zealous as I thought they were; and that I had been stereotyping them way more than I’d assumed they were stereotyping geeks like myself.
So anyway, I (foolishly) looked for the controversy back then, but didn’t exactly find it like I thought I would.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 09 Dec 2005 07:01:19 |
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hooper101
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2005 : 16:54:36
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| So are we now evil geeks? is that lawful evil? |
Die, die, die ,die, die, why won't you just die you silly dragon! |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 12:59:02
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Well Met all!
I have been away finishing up Masters class work... Ughghg! Anyway I found this discussion very enlightening! I have, (since I first started playing D&D) been very careful of telling anyone that I played. Just avoid the controversy. Having read this has made me re-think my usual tactics... Great discussion! Thanks! Also a great re-telling by Berz! |
ShadowJack |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 14:52:21
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When I had considered seeking my Masters in Sociology, I was thinking of eventually doing a thesis based on social interaction through improvisation. Well, of course, knowing my roots, I was going to take test subjects and subject them to D&D games to see how the interaction would play through.
Unfortunately, I just ended up getting my degree in Marketing - oh well, if I ever go back to sociology.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 15:41:36
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quote:
I was going to take test subjects and subject them to D&D games to see how the interaction would play through.
Um, and where do we sign up for that?
I recall the stigma of D&D quite vividly. Someone who had a weak grasp on reality and too many hours of D&D under their belt tried to fly off the top of a hotel in Houston when I was a kid and people freaked. Got to the point that I had a fantasy genre book in my room that I had purchased at the church bookstore when my mother flew into a rage and tore it to pieces. I was told repeatedly that such things were evil and could kill you.
*shrug*
Don't guess it matters, after a while I just got better at hiding my stuff.
Course now I get to share the fun with my own son.
Oh, and for the record, D&D hasn't killed me yet. Gray's puns have very nearly, but the game itself seems to be safe. |
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butterflyght
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 04:43:15
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There hasn't really been any experience of it for me just yet (been playing for less than a year), but my DM tells me some scary stuff about the "DnD is Evil" period.
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Malice Mizer. You know you love them. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 02:30:55
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I will always remember back in the day when I got my basic d&d, red box set for x-mas when I was 14( Scererar has a little tear run down his left cheek). I had to basically sell my mom on the fact that, d&d was not satanic rituals and all that, we fought the good fight, and were always against the bad guys. I don't know but it has always stuck, now as i'm older I can add a lot of grey areas, but overall it ends up as the forces of good(we the group) out against the evil minions of fantasy.
Even now at family functions, years later, My mom will still bring up the subject that D&D probably "kept" me out of trouble ( actually I just never got caught) using my imagination in constructive ways. oh ya and I never had an inclination to jump off a building because my feather fall spell would save me. I do however wish that magic missle spell would have worked on that one boss of mine back in the day |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 12:18:38
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Hmmm...been trolling the shelves lately, and came across this lost scroll.
For as long as I've been dabbling in D&D (since middle-school), I've never had someone tell me it was "evil" or dealt with "satanic rituals".  In fact, my parents preferred me to play D&D because it kept me out of most trouble teens ususally cause. They knew where I'd be and who I was with on game nights. And as big and active as my imagination is, they liked the fact I had something to occupy my time with besides a video game or taking up the entire living room floor with my legos (which I still play with; I may be an adult, but I still have a kid inside of me  ). Although, I was always trying to create something with my little plastic bricks that could be used to play D&D with, but who hasn't tried that tactic?
Seriously though, I've gotten more grief from people over reading the "Harry Potter" series and still playing the "Pokemon" video games. Still have yet to be called a devil-worshipper just because I play D&D. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 12:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by butterflyght
There hasn't really been any experience of it for me just yet (been playing for less than a year), but my DM tells me some scary stuff about the "DnD is Evil" period.
In regards to the 'Satanic panic', I suspect it's mostly a question of where you lived and what the religious views of your family and friends happened to be.
I was born in '77. My older brothers gamed during the 80s. I was barely aware of any controversy until years after it was all pretty much over. Adults I knew growing up had either never even heard of the game, or regarded it as a harmless hobby like collecting comic books or building model airplanes. Some kids thought it was 'dorky.'
A guy I gamed with in the early 90s told me that his mother didn't approve of him playing D&D. It was a religious thing. I’m not going to mention her religious affiliation.
I have never read any condemnations of the hobby coming from any mainstream religious organization or traditional church. I think the ‘satanic panic’ stuff largely existed on the fringes, in Jack Chick territory. It had a brief day in the sun courtesy of some poorly researched, sensationalistic journalism, and then it faded back to the fringes.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 25 Aug 2012 12:56:27 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 14:14:49
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| Definitely a "You're a geek" thing now and no longer "You're a Satanist" thing. The media and religious networks have new outlets to vent their spiritual rage on e.g. video games, YouTube, etc. |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 15:42:30
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| There hasn't been a D&D controversy since the early 80's. I don't know why anyone's worried. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 16:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
There hasn't been a D&D controversy since the early 80's. I don't know why anyone's worried.
Oh my friend! You have to go out to the US midwest starting in Pennsylvania. There is still quite a controversy. Except MAGIC: The Gathering is also part of it. Most of the people in the movement can't distinguish between the two.
There are still people who think D&D uses actual spells, and there are people that think MAGIC cards are power items to tempt children.
Ofcourse they also believe the earth is 6000 years old. I don't know which of the above is more laughable.
Of course the United States has politicians that think the Earth is 6000 years old. And we wonder why the country is a mess.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 16:42:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
There hasn't been a D&D controversy since the early 80's. I don't know why anyone's worried.
My dad's second wife was death on D&D, to the point that she once got rid of all of my books that had "dragon" in the title! This was the early 90's. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 17:48:28
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I never encountered any of the really bad stuff (NY is pretty damn liberal), but I remember once when I was photocopying a bunch of character sheets on the office copier in the late 80's, and one of the company salesmen asked me what I was doing. I told him I was copying some stuff for my D&D game.
He just looked at me and said, "Isn't that the game where kids go nuts and kill each other in real life?" I just shook my head.
I later found-out he was cheating on his wife with the company secretary. Glad he was there to judge my morality. {smirk} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Aug 2012 17:49:02 |
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Cassie5squared
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 19:40:34
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In my experience it does seem to just be a geek thing more than anything else, albeit one that people I know don't mock me about. I present it as a way to socialise and use my imagination, and they can see how much enthusiasm I have for it, so it gets viewed as more of a quirky hobby.
Though my manager's actually got interested enough to ask me to run a game at work. Eek. XD |
"Why do any of us get up in the morning? Why, for the joy and fun the day might bring us, if we're awake to see it! Up, then, and find ye fun!" - Elminster of Shadowdale
"And from the flames
As chance would have it
The Soulforged will come into light~" - Blind Guardian, "The Soulforged" |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 21:23:55
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When you're a strong, stocky guy, people don't tend to mock you to your face.
But if they do mock me behind my back, who cares--the chickens!  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 09:40:04
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| Possibly only in America, my country's is supposedly 90 percent catholic and no one ever said anything. The same is with the geek-nerd stereotype, out of 30+ people I played with not one matches the description. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 09:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Possibly only in America, my country's is supposedly 90 percent catholic and no one ever said anything. The same is with the geek-nerd stereotype, out of 30+ people I played with not one matches the description.
You should read the stuff Jack Chick published about Catholics.
Let's just say he had a very active fantasy life.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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D&D controversy
