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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 14:11:53
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What is Sememmon's patron deity (or which could be if it's unknown?) ?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 17:01:15
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The 1e campaign box set really is the only one that has it listed and he followed the old Mystra and Bane.
Who knows who his deities are now since the changes during the ToT's, etc. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Edited by - Kuje on 14 Feb 2006 17:01:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 17:29:57
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Spoilers from Son of Thunder:
If Mortiz the Gnome really was working for Semmemon the whole time in that book, Semmemon was actively trying to recruit allies from among those Cyricists that were going to be out of favor with Fzoul's Banite regime, though I have no idea if this indicates that Semmemon adopted Cyric as a patron, if he ever worshipped Xvim, or if he had had enough of gods and was just being an oppourtunist. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 17:31:09
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| In fact, I always supposed he switched to Cyric after ToT, mainly because he's opposed to Fzoul... |
Edited by - Skeptic on 14 Feb 2006 17:33:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 18:00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
In fact, I always supposed he switched to Cyric after ToT, mainly because he's opposed to Fzoul...
But he was a supporter of Manshoon, who follows Bane. And didn't Sememmon flee from the growing Cyricist influence in the Citadel of the Raven (or was it Darkhold? I always get the two confused)? |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Feb 2006 18:03:06 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 18:18:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
In fact, I always supposed he switched to Cyric after ToT, mainly because he's opposed to Fzoul...
But he was a supporter of Manshoon, who follows Bane. And didn't Sememmon flee from the growing Cyricist influence in the Citadel of the Raven (or was it Darkhold? I always get the two confused)?
I think I'm somewhat confused, but I always tought the "Western Zentharim" (including Darkhold) switched to Cyric while the "Moonsea" Zentharim went for Xvim (and then back Bane).
Is Manshoon really a devout Bane follower ? I never pictured it that way myself..
In fact, she must be right, Sememon must have escaped the new Cyric influence in Darkhold, but it is really because of his Banite faith? I doubt it.
This thread gave me a very good idea for my current campaign, the new "Zhent" contact my Banite Cleric player's got in Waterdeep could become only a disguise of Sememnon elven consort 
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Edited by - Skeptic on 14 Feb 2006 18:18:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 19:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
In fact, she must be right, Sememon must have escaped the new Cyric influence in Darkhold, but it is really because of his Banite faith? I doubt it.
Well, if he was a Cyricist, he wouldn't have had to flee... |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 20:16:05
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| Hmmm.. I was thinking about this Ashemeni idea when I wrote She, of course I wanted to say "You must be right [he's kept his faith in Bane] |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 22:11:34
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He fled Darkhold because he sensed that things were in the works to have him whacked... He no doubt predicted that once Fzoul would be catapulted to supreme power due to the return of Bane, he would have little left to decide in Darkhold.
So, instead of spending the rest of his life as Fzoul's puppet, he 'retired' from Zhentarim service...  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 22:44:00
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| I just got home and read up on Sememmon's description in the FRCS. Between his LE alignment, his past history, and what it says of his personality, I'm standing on my earlier statement: Bane. I could also see him giving a lot of worship to Mystra, since that was what the earlier lore said. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 22:51:30
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You know, in all the detail Steven Schend has passed my way re Sememmon, he's never once noted what deity he worships - if any. Given his break from Darkhold and the Zhentarim, I'd say that if he was a Cyricist or Banite that he may have drifted away from these faiths. As he's had to rely upon himself, his magic and Ashemmi (another spellcaster), he may well have shifted to the worship of Azuth or possibly Mystra. Nothing about this guy makes me think he's very religious in the first place - maybe his fanatic father put him off religion years ago ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 01:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
In fact, I always supposed he switched to Cyric after ToT, mainly because he's opposed to Fzoul...
No, that doesn't cut it for me. Sorry. Both Manshoon and Sememmon have alawys been pragmatic worshippers of Bane. As it is, I think Sememmon's playing on the fact that he's lost the influence he had at the Darkhold, and as such he's a renegade on the run from Fzoul.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 01:44:29
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Keeping in line with the Sememmon discussion though... I've always wondered about what really drove both Sememmon and Ashemmi to the status of rogues. Did it have something to do with Khelben's "grand plan"... based on the bits we learned in C&D. We know Khelben was making deals with Fzoul. Hmmmm...
Steven?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 01:46:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I just got home and read up on Sememmon's description in the FRCS. Between his LE alignment, his past history, and what it says of his personality, I'm standing on my earlier statement: Bane. I could also see him giving a lot of worship to Mystra, since that was what the earlier lore said.
Given that, I'd say Bane as well. But since his time as a renegade has largely seen him travelling around a lot of the Realms... perhaps his previous interest in worshipping Mystra has rekindled.
As George has said... Sememmon's currently doing "wizard stuff"... and a renewed interest in the Lady of Mysteries may be part of that.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 14:04:20
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You know, in all the detail Steven Schend has passed my way re Sememmon, he's never once noted what deity he worships - if any. Given his break from Darkhold and the Zhentarim, I'd say that if he was a Cyricist or Banite that he may have drifted away from these faiths. As he's had to rely upon himself, his magic and Ashemmi (another spellcaster), he may well have shifted to the worship of Azuth or possibly Mystra. Nothing about this guy makes me think he's very religious in the first place - maybe his fanatic father put him off religion years ago ...
-- George Krashos
I completely agree with George here: up to now the guy was maybe a "banite" on the surface, because, admit it, one would not last long in a mercantile theocracy if one would openly deny the clergy in charge...
Azuth/LN_Mystra could be a very good choice for Semmemmon at this given time. Either that or he's got a covert reason to "go underground" in order to bypass Khelben's ban to the west. It's that, or it's because he could not possibly envision a Fzoul-led Zhentarim anymore. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 17:22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Either that or he's got a covert reason to "go underground" in order to bypass Khelben's ban to the west.
Sememmon is neither a Zhentarim nor a Xvimist. The deal Fzoul and Khelben made does not affect Sememmon as an individual, and I'd say the same applies to Ashemmi. Now if they try starting something using Zhent forces, then that's another story. But so long as they remain independents, the deal doesn't apply to them at all. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 00:52:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertThe deal Fzoul and Khelben made does not affect Sememmon as an individual, and I'd say the same applies to Ashemmi. Now if they try starting something using Zhent forces, then that's another story. But so long as they remain independents, the deal doesn't apply to them at all.
I'm not so sure... I mean, it's likely yes, but Steven's earlier comments about Khelben's plan *maybe* having something to do with why Sememmon went "rogue" are just too delicious to ignore without suitable proof to the contrary.
Granted, Sememmon and Ashemmi's current status as renegades most likely has nothing to do with the Fzoul/Khelben shuffle and the deal probably has no bearing on Sememmon as he is now... but then maybe, that's the whole idea... keeping an agent like Sememmon free to help "set things in motion".
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Edited by - The Sage on 16 Feb 2006 00:53:07 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 01:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Keeping in line with the Sememmon discussion though... I've always wondered about what really drove both Sememmon and Ashemmi to the status of rogues. Did it have something to do with Khelben's "grand plan"... based on the bits we learned in C&D. We know Khelben was making deals with Fzoul. Hmmmm...
Steven?
Yes, Sage?
Steven
Who always reserves the right to say, "Er, no comment."  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 01:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You know, in all the detail Steven Schend has passed my way re Sememmon, he's never once noted what deity he worships - if any. Given his break from Darkhold and the Zhentarim, I'd say that if he was a Cyricist or Banite that he may have drifted away from these faiths. As he's had to rely upon himself, his magic and Ashemmi (another spellcaster), he may well have shifted to the worship of Azuth or possibly Mystra. Nothing about this guy makes me think he's very religious in the first place - maybe his fanatic father put him off religion years ago ...
-- George Krashos
Just my opinion, now, but I'd say two things about Sememmon within this context:
a) Sememmon has never been a devout worshiper of Anything beyond power.
b) Were he to still ascribe to any sort of faith, he'd only put his faith behind a god older than him. As he neither trusts nor has reason to embrace the young Mystra or the new Bane, I think he'd throw in with Azuth and twist it to worshiping his own skills of wizardry. (If you want to get really odd, have him "go native/elf" with Ashemmi and both start worshiping Fenmaril Mestarine to be wild cards.....)
Steven
Who knows that Sememmon's dad makes his son look like a piker in terms of self-centeredness and mindless lust for power (whereas Sememmon's always had a mindful lust for power) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 03:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Keeping in line with the Sememmon discussion though... I've always wondered about what really drove both Sememmon and Ashemmi to the status of rogues. Did it have something to do with Khelben's "grand plan"... based on the bits we learned in C&D. We know Khelben was making deals with Fzoul. Hmmmm...
Steven?
Yes, Sage?
Steven
Who always reserves the right to say, "Er, no comment."
Hehe... I should have expected that from you Steven .
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 03:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
b) Were he to still ascribe to any sort of faith, he'd only put his faith behind a god older than him. As he neither trusts nor has reason to embrace the young Mystra or the new Bane...
I can see him being uneasy about putting his faith in the new Mystra... but Bane? Perhaps he would see the Black Lord's return as a reflection of his great power... and thus, perhaps, be deserving once again of Semmy's further worship?
Then again, that is kind of discounted by your comments in a)... So unless Sememmon could justify a renewed worship in the "new" Bane as a way for himself to accrue further power... he's just as likely to look elsewhere for an established deity and go from there -- hence Azuth.
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 22:08:35
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| Okay i hate to disagree with you wise sages of the realms but..... In the new Sons of Thunder book it states that Sememmon is a follower of Cyric if any of those dark gods, he opposes the followers of band especially Fzoul because he is a follower/chosen of Bane. Although he fled Darkhold because he didn't think he could hold his power there with the changes occuring in the Zentarium converting to Bane and all. So he might not be a follower of either god. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 13:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
In the new Sons of Thunder book it states [snip]
What's that Sons of Thunder book you are referring to? never heard of it... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 01:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Okay i hate to disagree with you wise sages of the realms but..... In the new Sons of Thunder book it states that Sememmon is a follower of Cyric if any of those dark gods, he opposes the followers of band especially Fzoul because he is a follower/chosen of Bane. Although he fled Darkhold because he didn't think he could hold his power there with the changes occuring in the Zentarium converting to Bane and all. So he might not be a follower of either god.
I mentioned this in my "cloaked" post, but in all honesty, I saw that Sememmon was recruiting among the Cyrisits by telling them that there was no place in the new Banite order of the Zhentarim, but I don't remember it implicitly saying that Semmemon was a Cyricist, just that he was heavily recruiting among them. If you can remember where it specifically says that he was doing so because of a shared faith, let me know so I can review it, because I don't remember that. Thanks. |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 12:24:00
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I could never imagine Sememmon worship a deity, who's chosen would be Fzoul Chembryl!
I always imagined Sememmon (and Manshoon) to be more agnostic, not really knowing what to believe, but also not really caring (as they surely have other things in mind than religion) |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 17:54:57
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I agree with what's been said. Certainly the material that Steven Schend has flashed before me grants the impression that Sememmon's not a sort especially inclined towards religion. He may not be a Cyricist (though Moritz certainly is), though if we can imagine the Zhentarim fractured into Banite (eastern) and Cyricist (western) factions, Sememmon's sympathies are on the Cyricist side.
Despite having been Manshoon's pupil once upon a time, he has no particular loyalty to him or his allegiences (these are Zhentarim, after all). Sememmon did kill one of the Manshoon clones during the Manshoon Wars (as related in Cloak & Dagger). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 18:14:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Despite having been Manshoon's pupil once upon a time, he has no particular loyalty to him or his allegiences (these are Zhentarim, after all). Sememmon did kill one of the Manshoon clones during the Manshoon Wars (as related in Cloak & Dagger).
But that clone was trying to steal from him... Sememmon had previously aided Manshoon, when Fzoul and Orgauth had attacked. Had that particular clone not tried to steal from Sememmon, I think it likely Sememmon would have offered some aid. |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 22:29:46
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| You're right; I had forgotten the specifics of the incident. Regardless, my feeling is that, among Zhentarim, power politics predominate over personal relationships and deific allegiences. |
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Sememmon's patron deity
