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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 15:39:45
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I'm trying to develop as clear a mental picture as I can muster of the various styles of architecture found in the Lands of Intrigue and some specific regions of the Shining South. I've gotten some very helpful feedback already from Steven on Amn and Tethyr. But now I'm moving south and east from there.
It is unavoidable that there will be real world influences here, as the human imagination can't generate a mental picture of a fantasy setting in a vacuum. Many of the the most famous fantasy settings have derived in part from real world historical cultures, and can certainly not be said to lack originality. Even if you're not fully conscious of the fact, your mind is going to fill in the gaps with visual material it has experienced somewhere before, and with various associations of that kind it makes with the subject matter. The real world touchstones are going to be in there anyway. And when we're all trying to picture a fictional space together it certainly helps to have these real world touchstones.
I'd be very grateful for feedback from folks on the architecture of the regions I'm listing below.
Amn
Real world touchtones: A mixture of Moorish Spain and Southern France.
Picture building styles one might find in Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep alongside structures adorned with with domes and minarets. Amn's architecture is not as much pure stone construction as found to the south, instead more a mixture of wood and stone.
Amn's founding Shoonite builders from the much hotter desert south built in the Calishite style. But since the climate in Amn is cooler they did not use geometrically ornate window screens and pillared courtyards nearly as liberally. In some older cities (eg, Esmeltaran) one may find the Sabban structure that is seen in Calimport. As time wore on Amn's architecture increasingly took on influences from Faerun's Sword Coast and Western Heartlands.
Amn's architecture is more heavily inflected with Calishite influences than Tethyr's. That is because Amn was established by Shoonite settlers who were proud of their Calishite heritage, and the land lay far enough away to avoid strife with Calimshan (unlike Tethyr). Amn is a stong trade partner with the city-states north of the Cloud Peaks, with its caravans regularly visiting the Sword Coast and Western Heartlands. So those architectural influences are strongly seen as well.
Tethyr
Real world touchstones: Moorish Spain. Castles, keeps, abbeys, etc., of the type seen in (northern?) Spain and Scotland are more prominent (?) than the Arabian style architecture of the Tethyr's distant past.
Calishite influences of Tethry's Calishite founders have progressively diminished (?) in Tethyr since the land gained its independence. Tethyr has known only strife with its Calishite oppressors since its inception, and its natives have maintained their own separate identity from the beginning. Independent Tethyr won its freedom by the hand of human barbarian clans native to the region (with the aid of elves).
While the nation's clearly architecture bears the stamp of its Calishite forbears, the style of architecture seen in __(?)__ is more strongly felt.
I'm not clear on what the influences were here. The founding barbarian clans built their castles, keeps, abbeys, etc., based on what they had seen to the north? With contact with the cultures north of the Cloud Peaks coming by way of sea trade with Baldur's Gate? Where else might they have drawn inspiration from in establishing their own unique architecture? The Border Kingdoms?
Calimport
Real world touchtones: Turkey.
The Shaar
Real world touchtones: ? At least where Shaarans (human nomads) are concerned, perhaps the barbarian nomadic camps are not unlike Native Amercian Indian, using animal skin tents? The Shining South notes that "great herds" graze the Shaaran plains, but as far as I could see doesn't mention what species of animal would be hunted by nomadic tribes. What animal species indigenous to the Shaaran plains might be used in the way buffalo were by Native Americans isn't clear. Then again, perhaps these tent communities are more similar to desert Arabia, using cloth tents? But it seems unlikely that there would be any kind of textile production on these primitive plains.
Trading communities are scattered across the plains, sprouting up around watering holes in valleys that provide water, shade, and other natural resources. These tend to be small scale trading centers which provide basic provisions for caravans. The building styles would be a hodgepodge of influences from Durpar, Turmish, Amn--but really from almost anywhere in the south, as the village folk of the Shaaran plains are a diverse lot.
For wemics, the Shining South there is a section on a typical wemic campsite, which mentions the use of grass matts and half-tents made of animal hide.
For centaurs, thri-keen, and loxo nomadic tribes I have no idea at all what their camps would look like.
Halruaa
Real world touchtones: ? Touareg and Saharan?
The roots of Halruaan culture are a blend of Lapal tribes and Netherese, also influenced by Arkaiunan (human) tribespeople from Dambrath. According to the 3rd. ed. FR Net Compendium, Netheril's real world inspirations are "Touareg and Saharan desert-like nomads."
The dominant culture was almost certainly the Netherese, who came in their majestic skyships to found a new kind of paradise for themselves in the South. The other two cultures appear far more primitive by comparison, and one would think they would have been mostly assimilated by the more advanced Netherese culture.
Most of Halruaa consists of small villages and farmland. But the capitol city of Halarahh provides a window into city architecture (though this would be the grandest example):
"Hundreds of wizard towers--lofty edifices built of colorful coral, stone, crystal, and magical force--dominate the skyline, jutting upward from an otherwise low-slung city profile. In past decades, each wizard tried to outdo his rivals by building the highest tower with the grandest and most breathtaking view of the countryside around the city...
[T]he Netyarch's Palace is more dazzling than any other edifice. The spawling structure is a masterpiece of architecture that features soaring spires connected by causeways seemingly suspended in thin air. Large facings and supports made of transparent material--or sometimes magical force--give the whole building an open, airy feel...
Near the Netyarch's Palace in the heart of the city lies Arbor Square, an expanse of parks, rivers, pavilions, and gazebos designed for strolling, chatting, or orating... Vine-covered trellises create spaces for private conversations, and bridges span man-made canal-rivers, giving Arbor Square the feel of a vast, perfectly manicured garden...
The Promenade is a wide walkway that runes along the tops of the city walls, which for the most part are ceremonial rather thatn functional, anyway. The path can be reached via several sets of wide marble stairs, making it readily accessible to the citizens...
Dockside Square is the customary site for just about every festival or fair that takes place in the city.... This open plaza is paved in colored stone, and large trees provide good quantities of shade for strolling and chatting. Intserspersed among the trees are numerous pavillions with brightly colored awnings."
Dambrath
Real world touchtones: ?
The drow influence would be overwhelming here, I'm sure.
The human Akaiunians natives of the land have their roots in Shadaular's Nar civilization, later mixed with an Iluskan tribe. I don't know anything about either of these civs.
Lurien
Real world touchtones: ?
Sounds rather Tolkien-esque, i.e., Shire-like, except set in a much warmer climate. I.e., Hobbit holes amidst green, rolling, pastoral counstryside dotted with farms.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 16:23:08
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As far as getting a "quick snapshot" comparing cultures to the real world works fine, though I have seen a lot of people fall into "if it looks like X, it must be really similar to X, right down to the minutia and idiosyncracies of the people." With that disclaimer in place, that even if some influences are similar and they work well for a "shorthand" idea, but not in depth examination of the culture, I'll throw this much out.
Iluskans have traditionally been portrayed as a Norse style culture, so Iluskans that wandered wide earlier in history are likely to have "germanic" style affectations. |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 16:39:41
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| Oh yeah, I want to make clear that I myself see these "touchstones" as points of departure for something very original, and thoroughly 'Realmsian'. It just helps me in terms of artwork, which is my main interest here. :) |
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Magic Matt
Seeker
USA
70 Posts |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 16:30:25
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| wow, that's great. I like the idea of having printouts to give to players that gives them an idea of what people build like. Even better if you don't tell them "this is from Spain" to bias them. Too bad there's nothing like this to be found for magical places like Halruaa (though one thing that has always struck me about Halruaa is that it seems like a place where craftsmen in wood would be common... I'm seeing carved teak chairs, carved columns rather than statues.... I don't know why, it just seems like the place would have the resources for it). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Magic Matt
Seeker
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 17:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Thanks Matt! :)
Actually, I'm seeing something like Carcassone as somewhat more Tethyrian, i.e., it looks to my very untrained eye more like a standard central European castle. It's the distinctly Arabian touches that I'm picturing with respect to Amn, stuff like this:
Actually, I think Amn would be more like southern France in style (Provonce, Languedoc, ect.) because it is farther north and had less influence by Calmishan. Southern Tethyr is very much influenced by Calimshan and would be the closest to a pesudo-Granada. At least thats what I get from the Shining South.
Carcassone, is a mix of mostly Southern French, with some Roman, Cathar, and with slight Spanish and Moorish influences. The Moors tryed to conqure Carcassone, durring their invassion of southern France but the failed!
Matt
Another more indepth look at Carcassonne-
http://www.carcassonne.org/carcassonne_en.nsf/agcGeneral?OpenFrameSet&Frame=Contenu&Src=/carcassonne_en.nsf/pgeIntroVisiter?OpenPage |
Edited by - Magic Matt on 08 Feb 2006 17:24:06 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 21:26:14
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Yeah, I would have thought that too. But interestingly Steven Schend (author of Lands of Intrigue) surprised me a little in this thread on this subject http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5336 by noting that because Amn was "a bit removed from the lash" as he put it, there is ironically a bit stronger Calishite influence in Amn's architecture compared with Tethyr. But maybe Steven will weigh in if I have misunderstood him. :)
Oh, and here is a rendering of Halarahh (from The Shining South) featured on WotC's website:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84389.jpg |
Edited by - Lemernis on 09 Feb 2006 00:26:17 |
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Magic Matt
Seeker
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 20:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Yeah, I would have thought that too. But interestingly Steven Schend (author of Lands of Intrigue) surprised me a little in this thread on this subject http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5336 by noting that because Amn was "a bit removed from the lash" as he put it, there is ironically a bit stronger Calishite influence in Amn's architecture compared with Tethyr. But maybe Steven will weigh in if I have misunderstood him. :)
Oh, and here is a rendering of Halarahh (from The Shining South) featured on WotC's website:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84389.jpg
Ok, I see about Amn, well not really but it is fantasy after all.....
Interesting picture of Halarahh. Looks like some european gothic arches, mixed with central asian domes, and an Indian feel. Nice mix and very well done. But that's just a guess, my degrees in History and not Architecture!
MATT |
Edited by - Magic Matt on 09 Feb 2006 20:57:53 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 21:29:30
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I'd agree with those speculations about the influences in that painting of Halarahh, at least that's the way it strikes me too. :) I'm trying to find some artwork on WotC's site, or that shows ancient Netherese cities. And source books that have drawings of Netherese cities. Since the Halruaans are descended from that culture in Anauroch, and have remained so insular, the architecture is probably very similar.
***
Edit: Well, looks like the source books would be How the Mighty Are Fallen and Netheril: Empire of Magic.
Here's a book cover that presumably shows a Netherese city:
http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_net2.jpg |
Edited by - Lemernis on 10 Feb 2006 12:10:21 |
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Magic Matt
Seeker
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 17:13:14
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The Shaar
I think you are right about The Shaar (Shaarans), I don't think they are desert Bedouin, but Amercian Indian dose'nt feel right, nor a central- south african people like the Matabele, Xhosha, Zambesie, or Zulu. It would be perhaps a combination of the diferent cultures?
Dambrath
Real world touchtones: Hungarian (magyar)?
Halruaa
Real world touchtones: Eaily India?
Lurien
Real world touchtones: The Shire in Florida  ?
MATT |
Edited by - Magic Matt on 10 Feb 2006 17:16:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 17:18:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Edit: Well, looks like the source books would be How the Mighty Are Fallen and Netheril: Empire of Magic.
And both are available as free downloads from the Wizards downloads page.  |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 13:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
wow, that's great. I like the idea of having printouts to give to players that gives them an idea of what people build like. Even better if you don't tell them "this is from Spain" to bias them. Too bad there's nothing like this to be found for magical places like Halruaa (though one thing that has always struck me about Halruaa is that it seems like a place where craftsmen in wood would be common... I'm seeing carved teak chairs, carved columns rather than statues.... I don't know why, it just seems like the place would have the resources for it).
That sounds about right to me too. The descriptions of the capitol city make it sound very ornate, with lots of elaborate, bejewled wizard towards. |
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architecture of the South
