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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 03:19:38
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Does her most recent stats are the Code of Harpes one?
Thanks.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 26 Feb 2006 03:24:41
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 03:26:01
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According to City of Splendors: Waterdeep, her stats are
Arilyn Moonblade, CG half elf female, Rog 1/Ftr 4/Harper Agent 5 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 23:33:11
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| Didn't she used to be NG? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 23:59:43
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http://www.elainecunningham.com/arilyn_moonblade.htm
offers quote:
Arilyn's 2nd edition game stats appear in Code of the Harpers. She is (erroneously) mentioned as a Harper Scout in the hardcover game accessory Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 00:33:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Didn't she used to be NG?
FOR4 Code of the Harpers also lists her as CG. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 00:56:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Didn't she used to be NG?
FOR4 Code of the Harpers also lists her as CG.
She was only NG in Heroes' Lorebook. CotH and the n Waterdeep sourcebook list her as CG.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:03:15
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So what's her real alignment?  |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:25:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
So what's her real alignment?
From what we've seen of her, I'd say the majority of the sources have it right: CG. She's definitly good, and we've not seen her pay any bit of attention to the law. She's always been a "do whatever it takes to get the job done, so long as it's good"-type of person. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Feb 2006 01:26:08 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:32:57
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From Ed's notes, years back: CG.
Ed wrote "CG, but ask Elaine at GenCon" and then drew a box. Later, in red ink, he checked off the "Ask Elaine" bit and wrote "CG" in the box.
love,
THO |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:35:19
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| All right, there's the answer. I had no problem seeing her as either NG or CG, but I was wondering what the correct one was, thanks. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:43:55
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quote:
Arilyn's 2nd edition game stats appear in Code of the Harpers. She is (erroneously) mentioned as a Harper Scout in the hardcover game accessory Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
So, who like Elaine consider her more a fighter than a rogue/fighter/harper agent?
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:01:07
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| I think the rogue level was added because of her demonstrated skill at picking locks and (I suppose) tracking. The Harper Agent levels are perhaps more debatable - for one thing, to be exact they should be ex-Harper Agent since she's left the group - I'd possibly replace them with levels of Ranger if it weren't for her not being a spellcaster. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Berzerker_prime
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 04:11:32
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There is a progression of non-magic variant Ranger in Complete Warrior, if you prefer to use those.
Personally, though, I don't have much problem with including the levels of Harper Scout in her level progression. Sure, she's not a Harper any more, but she still has those skills and probably a lot of the contacts she made as a Harper. Obviously the rules for ex-harper scout would have to be followed, but she'd still have the skills. It's not like she forgot them when she stopped being a Harper.
Just my two cents.
Sweet water to you.
Berz.
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*******
Berzerker_prime
Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lĂș aphadad govatham.
Gaming quote of the week:
"Why does everyone assume I have a plan?"
"Because you were giving the orders!"
- Scondora and Elara, Fellowship of the Ever-Falling Troll.
RIP Alton Goodbarrel. We shalt always remember thee for thy ability to find traps... the hard way... even when yon 350 lb Dwarf walks over them first without triggering them. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 04:53:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
So what's her real alignment?
From what we've seen of her, I'd say the majority of the sources have it right: CG. She's definitly good, and we've not seen her pay any bit of attention to the law. She's always been a "do whatever it takes to get the job done, so long as it's good"-type of person.
And her conduct in most of the novels she's appeared in, especially with regard to her attitudes and opinions seen in Elfshadow, would suggest to me that CG is indeed the more correct interpretation of Arilyn's alignment.
Heroes' Lorebook as I recall was the only source that listed her alignment as NG.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:01:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And her conduct in most of the novels she's appeared in, especially with regard to her attitudes and opinions seen in Elfshadow, would suggest to me that CG is indeed the more correct interpretation of Arilyn's alignment.
Heroes' Lorebook as I recall was the only source that listed her alignment as NG.
True, but I wanted to be sure, because it's possible for one book to be correct and the others to be wrong. It's a logical fallacy, most of the time, to try prove a point via strength in numbers. What can I say--I nitpick like that.
I still think that a NG person could possibly act the way Arilyn did. Not saying that "CG is wrong, and you're all wrong!", but CG and NG aren't that far apart from each other. Also, everyone sees alignments differently. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 Feb 2006 16:05:24 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:21:53
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| I think through reading a character in a book, we can zero in on things, but I think its hard to absolutely get a fix from such reading. For example, you can figure out that a charcter is suppose to be good, and not "lawful" (in this case, Arilyn), and thats about it. I don't think it would ruin anyone's campaign if she showed up as NG or CG, and the right answer has more to do with how the author sees their creation and how that might shape their future decicions. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think through reading a character in a book, we can zero in on things, but I think its hard to absolutely get a fix from such reading. For example, you can figure out that a charcter is suppose to be good, and not "lawful" (in this case, Arilyn), and thats about it. I don't think it would ruin anyone's campaign if she showed up as NG or CG, and the right answer has more to do with how the author sees their creation and how that might shape their future decicions.
I agree. Sometimes, seeing the specific, official alignment of character that you got to know about from reading can be surprising, though it often makes sense upon further thought. Heck, sometimes even characters that seem to be good in a book turn out to be neutral (and vice versa). Alignment can hard to pin down, and you just have to make deductions based on a character's thoughts, feelings, and actions in a book. And in some cases, we don't even have THAT much to go by--sometimes we see a character act without understanding the motives behind those actions.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 Feb 2006 16:40:54 |
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2006 : 17:42:56
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Slightly off tangent, but somewhat related, what do people think of Danilo Thann's current stats?
For a start I was shocked that he didn't have Bard levels, but what interests me is that he has levels in Spellsinger without meeting the requirements. He was the requisite Elf blood, but he doesn't cast arcane spells without preparation. How can he be a Spellsinger in that case?
Just wanted the thoughts of all you scribes here at Candlekeep about this.
GH |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2006 : 22:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Slightly off tangent, but somewhat related, what do people think of Danilo Thann's current stats?
For a start I was shocked that he didn't have Bard levels, but what interests me is that he has levels in Spellsinger without meeting the requirements. He was the requisite Elf blood, but he doesn't cast arcane spells without preparation. How can he be a Spellsinger in that case?
Just wanted the thoughts of all you scribes here at Candlekeep about this.
GH
You can see a sample build here (search for Danilo):
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=496878&page=1
Note the use of the Spontaneous Casting feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting. This is a bit of a dodge since the Realms doesn't (officially ) have action points, but it's the best solution I've seen.
FWIW, I screwed up and didn't doublecheck like I normally do. I thought there was a generic feat that did this (there's not) or that one of the regional feats or Complete Arcane feats that gives you spells as a sorcerer would work. (They don't. They give you three 0-level spells).
Other solutions would be to Rule 0 that Arcane Schooling would suffice. (This has the additional problem of not being a regional feat for Waterdeep, but it's possible the alternate regions in Champions of Valor might allow you to get around this.)
As for why he doesn't have bard levels. I don't think he acts like a Player's Handbook-style bard. To me, he acts like a wizard with a high Cha, lots of ranks in Knowledge skills, and lots of ranks in Perform skills. I couldn't find any evidence that he uses the special powers of the bard class.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 05 Mar 2006 22:23:49 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2006 : 22:35:25
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| Personally for Danilo I would have dropped 2 levels of Aristocrat and given him either 2 levels of Bard or given him one level of Bard and 2nd level of Spellsinger |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 00:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I couldn't find any evidence that he uses the special powers of the bard class.
--Eric
In Elfshadow, his singing perked Arilyn up when she was fighting the lizard men. I thought that was bardic... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 01:01:18
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And as I recall, that same battle saw an effect on the lizard men also... a result of Danilo's bardic abilities perhaps? Although Fascinate doesn't quite seem to capture that.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 21:57:58
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| It could be a simple as badly poed Inspire Courage :P. Also one way how to make Danilo a so called 'bard mage' could be simply add a Sublime Chord levels where he qualifies in 9lvl at least. But then his level would rise quite a amount :P. But I think a aristocrat/bard/wizard/spellslinger is way to go. I reason for the aristocrat so that Danilo was borned as noble and so he haves got basic tutorlage in that. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 03:00:00
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| According to his stats in the new Waterdeep sourcebook (I think?), Danilo *does* have one level in the Spellsinger PrC. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Arilyn Moonblade
