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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 18:33:59
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After reading "Counselors & Kings" an idea started forming in my head. I didn't like the way they made jordaini magic-resistant by making the mothers half-wits. So I got an idea how to make jordaini an other way (please if you find a hole in my logic or like to add something just do it):
After the Wizardwar King Zalathorm (at the urging of Matteo an Tzigone) has started to research an alternative way to create jordaini-children.
After a year his research team has finally come up with a solution. The new way of jordaini-production starts with taking the mother to a special countryside farm which is located inside of a dead magic zone. Here the mother is impregnated. The mother stays inside the zone and gets all of the food from the farm until the childbirth. After the child has born, the mother may leave.
The child lives and eats inside the farm for the first five years of his life. Durning this time the dead magic zone will slowly imbue itself into the child. After the five year period the child is taken to the House jordaini that also has dead magic zones in the sleeping quarters of the students. The students will also eat food brought from the farm until teenage. None of the tranining rooms or the faculty rooms have dead magic zones in order to make the teachers lives more comfortable.
All of the initial animal studys are complete and the project only needs the approval of the king. The dead magic zone have either been located or the spells to make them have been found.
So what do you think? Is it possible? Should I change something?
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I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 18:51:35
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| I don't know... We've not seen any evidence that living in a dead-magic area has any long-term effects on people. Remember, there are dead magic areas within cities, particularly Tantras. |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 19:01:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know... We've not seen any evidence that living in a dead-magic area has any long-term effects on people. Remember, there are dead magic areas within cities, particularly Tantras.
Yeah, but if every molecule inside your body comes from dead magic food shouldn't it have some effect. Nobody living in Tantras grows food in the city (it comes from the nearby farms that are not in dead magic zones).
I heard that Tantras now exports forexample dead magic zone paint that should make a room dead magic zone. |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 19:29:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
Yeah, but if every molecule inside your body comes from dead magic food shouldn't it have some effect. Nobody living in Tantras grows food in the city (it comes from the nearby farms that are not in dead magic zones).
Why? Magic is just another facet of the world. If something is normally not affected by the presence of magic, then the absence of magic shouldn't have any effect.
Would growing plants in a hydroponic garden make them immune to dirt? Would creating something in the Underdark make it resistant to sunlight? No and no -- so I don't see the absence of magic having any effect on something when the presence of magic didn't.
Heck, by your reasoning, if you ate food produced only in areas that were not dead magic areas, then it should give you a bonus to use magic inside a dead magic area. That is clearly not the case, so I don't see it working the other way. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 19:31:11
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| Oh, and do understand that I'm not attacking your goals. I just don't see this particular methodology as having any effect. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 20:04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Where did you hear this from?!?
I don't remember exactly, but it was a short story that had an Inn with a room that was a very popular meeting place because of the paint. |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 20:58:30
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remember, magic works in mysterious ways so it is possible that a being created in a void of magic carries that weavelessness around with her/him wherever... i also didnt like the mother thing in counselors adn kings. just because an idea doesnt necessarily make sense doesnt mean it wont work
btw wooly sunlight and water are far from magical so your analogies dont make sense here |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
Edited by - Beirnadri Magranth on 04 Mar 2006 20:59:36 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 21:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
remember, magic works in mysterious ways so it is possible that a being created in a void of magic carries that weavelessness around with her/him wherever... i also didnt like the mother thing in counselors adn kings. just because an idea doesnt necessarily make sense doesnt mean it wont work
btw wooly sunlight and water are far from magical so your analogies dont make sense here
As a side dicussion of this thread. What would you think of a party traveling to Tantras, just to pick up a few rocks to carry around in there pockets for certain situations. Any thoughts on how this could/ would effect a battle against someone using magic? How much would you need in order to benefit from it. Maybe a stone polished and embedded into a breast plate on your warriors armor. Would it even work? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 21:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
btw wooly sunlight and water are far from magical so your analogies dont make sense here
My point is that in the Realms, magic is a natural force, just like water and sunlight. Absence of one element of nature does not provide immunity to other elements of nature.
Face it, we've had other dead magic areas in the Realms. Some are certainly large enough to grow food in -- yet there has not been a single mention of any long-term effects of this.
Dead magic is not in and of itself a quality -- it's simply an area where the Weave does not touch. There is no evidence that dead magic areas have any effect on anything that is non-magical.
Now, for another idea... In Cormyr, King Azoun IV was poisoned with a substance that had its own dead magic area -- thus preventing magic from affecting him. So it is possible to create a substance that would render someone non-magical. I'd look into a variation of that idea. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 21:25:13
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
As a side dicussion of this thread. What would you think of a party traveling to Tantras, just to pick up a few rocks to carry around in there pockets for certain situations. Any thoughts on how this could/ would effect a battle against someone using magic? How much would you need in order to benefit from it. Maybe a stone polished and embedded into a breast plate on your warriors armor. Would it even work?
So far as I know, it would have absolutely no effect. Objects in a dead magic area do not absorb the absence of magic into themselves and carry it around with them. They simply exist in an area that the Weave does not touch. It's like being in a shadow -- it doesn't make something resistant to sunlight. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 22:07:55
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i dont think carrying a stone around would do anything... mostly bc its not significantly tied to the dead magic area. but in your campaign you could have it do whatever you want!
i think each dead magic area functions differently... they are unique areas where magic has faltered for various reasons... since it is so common a legend of incurable curses and undispellable magics that it might make sense to have the cause of these be components cultivated in dead magic zones! I really like the idea that dead magic isn't just a static feature of the realms, like a boulder or mountain... but more of a dynamic force of nature with various potentials and as complex as the weave which it negates. I see dead magic areas as drifting continental plates on the surface of the weave... or more accurately torn holes in the weave which fluxuate and alter as the strands along its edges do.
dead magics areas could also be incompatible patches on the weave where a force can permeate the area it is in and permeated objects have the same dampening effect on magic. at least it would be much more interesting this way.
also Just because Dead Magic zones havent been noted as giving off magic resistance yet, that doesn't mean it won't... Remember, magic can play the seriously intricate games...
-beir m.
(who is tuurning out to be just as mishief making as wooly) |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 15:56:03
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| I'm afraid that won't work at all. Even if the prescribed method above really works, what u would end up with is just a human with magic resistance. A jordain is much more than just a human with magic resistance, the magic potions imbibed by their mother also increase the jordains memory and physical prowess and a lot of other things. Not just the magic resistance |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 22:01:41
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The jordaini (and Kivea, a really misplaced character in the trilogy) dampened my enthusiasm to read the novels. (Good thing I managed to finish them, though). Why choose non-magic-users to be counselors when wizards themselves, who could learn magic-resistance and martial arts (like Malark), are more than fit for the job? Is this just one of Elaine's twist in the somewhat overused roles in most fantasy novels (be it FR or otherwise): the mortal, non-magic-user king or emperor or other persons of political importance taking wizards as their counselors? If so, I don't really find it good. I'd rather stick to a cliche, with a little modification of course, than create a totally different or opposite one.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 04:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
The jordaini (and Kivea, a really misplaced character in the trilogy) dampened my enthusiasm to read the novels. (Good thing I managed to finish them, though). Why choose non-magic-users to be counselors when wizards themselves, who could learn magic-resistance and martial arts (like Malark), are more than fit for the job? Is this just one of Elaine's twist in the somewhat overused roles in most fantasy novels (be it FR or otherwise): the mortal, non-magic-user king or emperor or other persons of political importance taking wizards as their counselors? If so, I don't really find it good. I'd rather stick to a cliche, with a little modification of course, than create a totally different or opposite one.
I fail to see the cliche.
Who better to counsel a wizard than someone who could never use or be affected by magic? If you've got a lot of money in the bank, who's the most trustworthy financial consultant -- the person who already has everything money can buy, or the person that desparately wants even a fraction of your wealth to spend for himself?
Jordaini cannot be affected by magic. Thus, they can never be charmed or threatened, or otherwise magically coerced. And they can never wield magic, either, so they're not going to be influenced by desire of it. In other words, jordaini are bred to be totally neutral with regards to the use of magic. They are, therefore, the perfect advisors for wizards.
You can't magically threaten them, you can't magically put your own words in their mouth, and they can't betray you to steal your secrets for themselves. And yet, they're also trained to know all the ins and outs of magic. So who better to advise a wizard?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 05:07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
The jordaini (and Kivea, a really misplaced character in the trilogy) dampened my enthusiasm to read the novels. (Good thing I managed to finish them, though). Why choose non-magic-users to be counselors when wizards themselves, who could learn magic-resistance and martial arts (like Malark), are more than fit for the job? Is this just one of Elaine's twist in the somewhat overused roles in most fantasy novels (be it FR or otherwise): the mortal, non-magic-user king or emperor or other persons of political importance taking wizards as their counselors? If so, I don't really find it good. I'd rather stick to a cliche, with a little modification of course, than create a totally different or opposite one.
I fail to see the cliche.
Who better to counsel a wizard than someone who could never use or be affected by magic? If you've got a lot of money in the bank, who's the most trustworthy financial consultant -- the person who already has everything money can buy, or the person that desparately wants even a fraction of your wealth to spend for himself?
Jordaini cannot be affected by magic. Thus, they can never be charmed or threatened, or otherwise magically coerced. And they can never wield magic, either, so they're not going to be influenced by desire of it. In other words, jordaini are bred to be totally neutral with regards to the use of magic. They are, therefore, the perfect advisors for wizards.
You can't magically threaten them, you can't magically put your own words in their mouth, and they can't betray you to steal your secrets for themselves. And yet, they're also trained to know all the ins and outs of magic. So who better to advise a wizard?
Also, I'd recommend a reading of both Elaine's prior comments here at Candlekeep on the subject, and the Jordaini details in 3e's Shining South tome. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 07:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
The jordaini (and Kivea, a really misplaced character in the trilogy) dampened my enthusiasm to read the novels. (Good thing I managed to finish them, though). Why choose non-magic-users to be counselors when wizards themselves, who could learn magic-resistance and martial arts (like Malark), are more than fit for the job? Is this just one of Elaine's twist in the somewhat overused roles in most fantasy novels (be it FR or otherwise): the mortal, non-magic-user king or emperor or other persons of political importance taking wizards as their counselors? If so, I don't really find it good. I'd rather stick to a cliche, with a little modification of course, than create a totally different or opposite one.
I fail to see the cliche.
Who better to counsel a wizard than someone who could never use or be affected by magic? If you've got a lot of money in the bank, who's the most trustworthy financial consultant -- the person who already has everything money can buy, or the person that desparately wants even a fraction of your wealth to spend for himself?
Jordaini cannot be affected by magic. Thus, they can never be charmed or threatened, or otherwise magically coerced. And they can never wield magic, either, so they're not going to be influenced by desire of it. In other words, jordaini are bred to be totally neutral with regards to the use of magic. They are, therefore, the perfect advisors for wizards.
You can't magically threaten them, you can't magically put your own words in their mouth, and they can't betray you to steal your secrets for themselves. And yet, they're also trained to know all the ins and outs of magic. So who better to advise a wizard?
I think you're confused with the cliché part. The cliché, I mean, is not what Elaine used, but the opposite of it. I am sure being an avid reader, you've noticed that several non-FR fantasy books mostly use wizards as the advisers of kings/emperors and other people of political importance who have no aptitude nor an inkling for magic. That is the cliché. What Elaine employed is more or less the exact opposite. Now, the reason I don't see the need for jordaini as counselors is that what they can do, the wizards can also do, and most probably even better. For one, a wizard can learn spells that resist, if not all, most spells of his adversary. A wizard does not have to make an oath of honesty to be better trusted, they can simply be it: an honest person. Though arguably, I say Khelben, Elminster, and (outside the Realms) Pug and Gerin Atreyano are good examples. Moreover, a wizard can be trained in martial arts, Malark being the best example I can think of. Besides, even some jordaini were weak enough as to fail in some of their sworn duties: some were dishonest and balmily self-serving.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 08:17:18
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| Jordaini should have area magic resistance, otherwise MR is easily circumvented. |
z455t |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2010 : 06:01:20
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Why need a jordaini to have an area magic resistance, when a wizard can simply cast a spell that resists some other spells within a vast or small area?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Jordaini 2.0
