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shike
Seeker
USA
71 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 07:00:44
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Ok, Currently my group is in Baldur's Gate. (this is related to my first time running the realms thread).
I have two new characters entering the game.
The First is a Gray Orc -- I know that the public reaction to him will be less than positive, I just want to get an Idea of how bad I should make it.
The Second is an Air Genasi -- I don't know how to play this one, anyone have any ideas?
On a related note, what is the general thought on Slavery in this particular area of the realms.
I konw, a lot of questions in a small post.
Cheers.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 07:20:43
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Orcs probably would get attacked, arrested, spat on, accosted etc if allowed to roam freely and openly in the town. Half-orcs (given the proximity of Purskul in Amn) would be dealt with better. If however the orc was in the company of a band of adventurers, then it's only likely that the authorities would stop and question them as to the whys and wherefores of travelling with an orc. Oh, and they might get some verbal abuse (and maybe physical if they appear weak) from the general public. Simply, I think he should invest in a hooded cape.
Baldur's Gate is a member of the Lords' Alliance. Slavery is outlawed in member cities. Under the surface though, BG would likely have some sort of slave trade given it's role as a link between Calimshan and the Heartlands.
Air genasi would be considered weird and exotic, but not dangerous. So they'd probably get lots of stares and comments but not much else.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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shike
Seeker
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 18:00:02
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Than ks George. That will be very helpful. Now I just need my new players to let me know how they got to Baldur's Gate.
I figured that about the Orc, and that is how I was planning on playing it, but it never hurts to double check.
About slavery, I think the Air Genasi character is a sailor, which means she could be from, about, anywhere along the sword coast, etc. What about slavery in places like, Amn, Calimshan, etc? |
Edited by - shike on 28 Mar 2006 18:00:58 |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:43:32
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Calimshan is more than happy to enslave you (and is a good origin for the genasi due to regional history).
Amn, IIRC, is lenient but it wouldn't be a public thing like it might be in Calimshan.
Tethyr is a bad place to go if you're a slaver... as is Waterdeep (unless you're going to Skullport).
Luskan is the "Calimshan of the North" with regards to slavery. |
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shike
Seeker
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:50:18
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| Thanks. That just reinforces the impressions that I had. Like I said above, it's always good to double check on things like this. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 20:10:19
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You've gotta be kidding me, right?
He's a grey orc. Kill on sight. Arrest everyone else, find out what their connection to the Telflammar Shadowlords is, if they prove to be uncooperative, throw them in a dungeon.
Any member of the Lords Alliance knows better than to let an orc roam free. It's an ORC, for god's sake. The type of orc is irrelevant. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 21:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by msatran
You've gotta be kidding me, right?
He's a grey orc. Kill on sight. Arrest everyone else, find out what their connection to the Telflammar Shadowlords is, if they prove to be uncooperative, throw them in a dungeon.
Any member of the Lords Alliance knows better than to let an orc roam free. It's an ORC, for god's sake. The type of orc is irrelevant.
The Lords' Alliance probably have little to no clue who the hell the Telflammar Shadowlords are. However, heightened suspicion of orcs in the wake of the erection of the Kingdom of Many Arrows has some merit, but not kill-on-sight-type-of-danger merit, as opposed to demons and devils, who bring nothing but trouble, ever. |
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shike
Seeker
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 21:33:04
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I agree with Arivia on this one. He will have to try to travel inconspicuously, but he won't be "shot on sight". He will het hassled if he is recognized as an orc, and the player realizes this.
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 06:32:04
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Arivia, there are rarely instances where I'll go out of my way to challenge someone as knowledgable as you, but you're making an assumption here that I think is way off base. This is an infamous group of people, and any Grey Orc who is just wandering into town could likely only be from Thesk, where they're accepted. That doesn't take too much mental effort. Once you get that far, the next step is completely logical.
I understand that you're trying to save the PC's life here, but the point is, you shouldn't have that kind of mercy for anyone. :) Treating orcs like they are not a "Kill on Sight Danger Type Merit' for someone who's a member of the Lord's Alliance seriously underestimates, I think, the danger that the Lord's Alliance currently faces from the army of 150,000 of same.
I'm not saying you're wrong, per se. I just think that the Dukes of the Gate, so to speak, are a little smarter than to just let the orc live. Better to make one mistake than to let there be a hundred orcs soon. Or a thousand, or twenty thousand.
Yes, the Flaming Fists are very good. But there's always the 1 in 20 rule.
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Edited by - msatran on 30 Mar 2006 06:32:40 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 11:49:30
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quote:
Originally posted by msatran
Arivia, there are rarely instances where I'll go out of my way to challenge someone as knowledgable as you, but you're making an assumption here that I think is way off base. This is an infamous group of people, and any Grey Orc who is just wandering into town could likely only be from Thesk, where they're accepted. That doesn't take too much mental effort. Once you get that far, the next step is completely logical.
How the hell would they have even heard of Thesk? It's a name out there somewhere, and that's mostly it, at these distances. |
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shike
Seeker
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 14:51:51
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| You both bring up good points, but I am going to have to go with Arivia. But extreme reactions will happen, IF he is not properly disguised. |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 21:35:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
How the hell would they have even heard of Thesk? It's a name out there somewhere, and that's mostly it, at these distances.
To anyone but the most learned sage/very well-travelled adventurerer, a "thesk" is probably a lizard-thing, and "telfammar" is some old crotchety shopkeeper who always tries to overcharge by a copper when you're buying bread. Even someone who's relatively educated/world-savvy probably only knows, at most, there's something called Thesk over thataway.
The common Baldur's Gate guardsman has no access to the FRCS, or even to Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate. There is no internet, no TV, no newspaper beyond a simple broadsheet... which is not going to have anything beyond local interests. (e.g. They haven't heard of anything to do with Cormyr's troubles, the only Hordes they know about have orcs in them) Unless they're a diplomat, trader, or innkeep that caters to the adventuring crowd, the workings of another land are meaningless. At most, the average person in Baldur's Gate might hear about something going on in Amn or Waterdeep, but even that would be "telephone gamed" to the point of near-incoherency. Calimshan is overrun by genies, and Waterdeep is literally made of gold.
Even the in the higher parts of the Baldur's Gate governmment, they would only have a grasp on the politics of the immediate area and common trading partners. They'd have a handle on Luskan, Calimport, Waterdeep, and a good number of the cities up and down the Chionthar, because they'd deal with representatives often. "Westgate" would be assumed to be the western gate. After all, they deal with those blokes in Iraebor.
And, this is in one of the more cosmopolitan locales in Faerun. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 22:32:03
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Gung Ho, this is precisely my point. You're not seeing the other side of the equation. If the PC's do it, the NPC's can do it. What is the typical reaction of PC's to an orc of any race?
Now, if your players typically wander off and have a chat with every orc they see, that's all fine and dandy, but I generally know for a fact that when my PC's see an orc, usually, there's an initiative roll and a whole 'lotta slayin' goin on. :)Now this means that your reaction from your typical first through third level gate guard is likely to be exactly the same. Remember, you're essentially talking about a race that lacks the basic rights equated with sentience and civilization that are accorded to humans, half-elves, dwarves, elves, etc.
Your problem is that you're conflating two actions into one, which perhaps I shouldn't have done in the first place, but really, once they kill the grey orc, the rest of the PC's will be taken into custody. And then they WILL be interrogated by someone who DOES know where Thesk is and they'll want to know what this guy was doing here. Even if they're evil, they'll probably be let go, unless they do something to reveal themselves as orcish conspirators or the like.
My problem with this is that you're portraying the guards of Baldur's Gate, THE most distressingly peaceful, well law enforced city south of Waterdeep (VGTSC), as chumps, which they are clearly not. And large numbers of the city guard are ex flaming fists, some of whom likely fought in the Horde War. So before you guys say "No one's gonna know where Thesk is," I would recommend a strong reconsideration.
Your issue is twofold. The first half is "The people who don't know what he is will want to kill him because he's an orc." The second half is "The people who do know who he is won't trust him because they'll want to know what a Grey Orc is doing so far from his native land." and THOSE people WILL know about the Telflammar Shadowlords.
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 20:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by msatran
Gung Ho, this is precisely my point. You're not seeing the other side of the equation. If the PC's do it, the NPC's can do it. What is the typical reaction of PC's to an orc of any race?
"KILL IT, IT'S A DRIZZIT"
quote:
Your problem is that you're conflating two actions into one, which perhaps I shouldn't have done in the first place, but really, once they kill the grey orc, the rest of the PC's will be taken into custody. And then they WILL be interrogated by someone who DOES know where Thesk is and they'll want to know what this guy was doing here. Even if they're evil, they'll probably be let go, unless they do something to reveal themselves as orcish conspirators or the like.
I doubt the orc would get to the questioning phase, but let's assume they capture him. At best, the orc would probably be used for hard labor after being tortured for any knowledge of any nearby orc trees.
And, my point was (and still is) that I really don't think anyone the orc would be interrogated by would make the "Thesk" connection. "Thesk" would probably be interpreted as orcish for "yo' mama."
Granted, I could see where someone higher up might be brought in on account of an orc hanging out with adventurers or in the city.
quote:
My problem with this is that you're portraying the guards of Baldur's Gate, THE most distressingly peaceful, well law enforced city south of Waterdeep (VGTSC), as chumps, which they are clearly not. And large numbers of the city guard are ex flaming fists, some of whom likely fought in the Horde War. So before you guys say "No one's gonna know where Thesk is," I would recommend a strong reconsideration.
I'm not sure if any would have fought in the Horde war (I thought everyone was mostly brought in from the Sea of Fallen Stars areas)... and even if they did, I don't think they would make "orc + city = Thesk" connection. I'd be surprised, even if they did fight there, that they'd know what the Zhentarim did... as even in the Horde novels, it was presented as an "after the fact" at the end of the war after everyone had gone home, where Azoun said, "hey, you boys missed your ship!"
quote:
Your issue is twofold. The first half is "The people who don't know what he is will want to kill him because he's an orc." The second half is "The people who do know who he is won't trust him because they'll want to know what a Grey Orc is doing so far from his native land." and THOSE people WILL know about the Telflammar Shadowlords.
I agree with the first part. I don't agree with the second part. I don't think they'd make the connection, or note much of a difference between a grey orc or any other orc, beyond, "hey, this one squeaks differently than the others... that's neat, keep jabbing him with the pokey-stick."
While I realize I'm being flip, I'm really not trying to make fun. I just don't buy someone making the connection unless there's a very special circumstance (like, the head gaioler is from Thesk, and was there AFTER the Zhentarim left their orcs there). |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 20:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by GungHo
I'm not sure if any would have fought in the Horde war (I thought everyone was mostly brought in from the Sea of Fallen Stars areas)... and even if they did, I don't think they would make "orc + city = Thesk" connection.
IIRC, I remember a statement about the Fists and their involvement in Azoun's Crusade in a supplement...let me see if I can find it again.
EDIT: Nope, got it mixed up with a Sundabarian contract on an orc horde. |
Edited by - Arivia on 31 Mar 2006 22:13:54 |
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Racial Reactions
