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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 21:58:53
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Hello-
I have searched the site somewhat - and did not see anything that covered this precisely - and wanted to get 'the word' on ot - and/or people's opinions.
I know that starting Realms languages for Humans (and demi-humans?)are partially based on location. Chondathan for Waterdeep and environs, etc. Also - I understand that Common is mostly a trade-language - and falls short in many situations that are further afield that things regarding trade, money - and I would assume - caravans etc.
My primary question is - are there differing racial languages for the various demi-human sub-races? Obviously - there are some simple truths to this (Drow) - but I was curious if say - Sun elves and Moon elves speak the same form of elvish - or if it is different. I suppose it may be just a dialect thing - much like Brittish-English or American-English - or even possibly the difference between someone from Queens and someone from Cajun-country.
Many thanks!
Dhomal
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I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 02:10:27
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As far as I can recall, Races of Faerūn make no mention of any subrace languages. Howevever, it does mention dialects of both Common and some of the various racial languages.
And I'd say you've gotten the idea of Common wrong, it regions dominated by ethnic Tethyrians it is the primary language. So in Tethyr, Waterdeep, or Amn this is the language most likely to be encountered in almost any situation (unless you're in a non-human dominated locale, of course). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 11:32:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
As far as I can recall, Races of Faerūn make no mention of any subrace languages. Howevever, it does mention dialects of both Common and some of the various racial languages.
And I'd say you've gotten the idea of Common wrong, it regions dominated by ethnic Tethyrians it is the primary language. So in Tethyr, Waterdeep, or Amn this is the language most likely to be encountered in almost any situation (unless you're in a non-human dominated locale, of course).
Aside from the common knowledge (what a pun!) that Common as a language is a crutch for RPGs, I think we might think of it as a trade language that is only used when talking with foreigners. Why would a native Cormyrean talk to his neighbor in common? It still can be seen here in Germany, German is the 'trade language' of the nation, but in certain areas the dialect is almost a different language, in other areas it is an entirely different language, Allemanic in the Black Forest area.
For us Earthers English might be considered Common tongue, those who deal with foreigners in any way, shape, or form regularly will speak a broken English in most cases. So my money would be on the regional languages being predominantly used in the various regions. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 13:28:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Aside from the common knowledge (what a pun!) that Common as a language is a crutch for RPGs, I think we might think of it as a trade language that is only used when talking with foreigners. Why would a native Cormyrean talk to his neighbor in common? It still can be seen here in Germany, German is the 'trade language' of the nation, but in certain areas the dialect is almost a different language, in other areas it is an entirely different language, Allemanic in the Black Forest area.
For us Earthers English might be considered Common tongue, those who deal with foreigners in any way, shape, or form regularly will speak a broken English in most cases. So my money would be on the regional languages being predominantly used in the various regions.
I agree that from a Common is a (to my mind) not very likely effect of the Realms being a game-world. That doesn't change the fact that in some regions it is the regional language. There is no Tethyrian or Amnian language - they speak Common. And I now speak of the mostly-Tethyrian areas, such as Amn or Tethyr.
quote:
From Races of Faerūn, page 104
Most Tethyrian speak Common as their primary language...
...As Talfir and other languages of the original western tribes vanished long ago, there is no ancestral Tethyrian tongue.
In other areas, however:
quote:
Instead, Tethyrians have always adopted the languages of the latest wave of immigration. Today, most Tethyrians speak Chondathan, a legacy of the mercantile invasion from the east in recent centuries, although a few speak Illuskan or Alzhedo instead.
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There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 30 Mar 2006 13:57:20 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 20:36:34
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Yes, the demihuman languages have dialects.
I'm sure the Common tongue in the Realms predates D&D: I can't imagine characters in Ed's stories being unable to communicate with each other because they're from different lands. This isn't a convention of RPGs in particular but of fiction in general. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 21:05:24
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wow i just logged on here to ask the same question
im playing a campaign where im a sun elf and he is big into lore etc... and i wanted to make it full of flavor and put down some cool forgotten languages etc. but elves only have elven to work with whereas humans have chondothan illuskan etc. loross etc.
are there any languages for these nonhuman races or what? |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 06:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I agree that from a Common is a (to my mind) not very likely effect of the Realms being a game-world. That doesn't change the fact that in some regions it is the regional language. There is no Tethyrian or Amnian language - they speak Common. And I now speak of the mostly-Tethyrian areas, such as Amn or Tethyr.
quote:
From Races of Faerūn, page 104
Most Tethyrian speak Common as their primary language...
...As Talfir and other languages of the original western tribes vanished long ago, there is no ancestral Tethyrian tongue.
In other areas, however:
quote:
Instead, Tethyrians have always adopted the languages of the latest wave of immigration. Today, most Tethyrians speak Chondathan, a legacy of the mercantile invasion from the east in recent centuries, although a few speak Illuskan or Alzhedo instead.
I unfortunately missed that reference in RoF.
However - what I did find was in PGtF p8:
quote:
All player chacaters know Common. In addition, each character knows the automatic languages listed for her region.
However - if you check the tables of info for the Human regions (pgs 11-16) only ONE region has more than one listed automatic language - The Western Heartlands. Going through the non-human lists (pgs 19-31) They are maxed out at two automatic languages - however - one is always the racial language - and another is more of a regional one (if there is a second one listed - some only have one.)
Since PGtF is a year newer than RoF I assume that 'newest Realmslore' trumps older Realmslore where there is a conflict. Also - in RoF (p 110-111) there is a table, Human Ethnic Groups by Nation or Region that also lists primary language for the regions covered - and in both the case of Amn and Tethyr - Chondathan is listed.
In order to get a more detailed 'feel' of Common - we need to go to the FRCS (3rd)(p 84): There they mention Common: quote:
All speaking peoples, including the humans of variouslands, posses a native tongue. In addition..... speak Commin as a second tongue. Common gre from a kind of pidgin Chondathan .... but is far simpler and less expressive. Nuances of speech, naming, and phrasing are better conveyed in the older, more mature languages, since Common is little more than a trade language.
The next paragraph continues to 'almost' contradict the first - saying in basic sense that since everyone knows Common - it works. Enough Common is known by everyone in the Heartlands to "get by in any but the most esoteric converdsations". IN more remote areas - enoght is known to "speak it badly", possibly needing to "point or pantomime in a pinch".
Also - in the two places mentioned, Amn and Tethyr - both have Chondathan listed as the automatic language, not Common (however - it does state that everyone knows that also)
So - I guess this is where I got my vague feeling that Common was 'just a trade language'.
Surprisingly - my main question - the yes/no of whether or not there are racial sub-languages for elves, etc has largely been un-mentioned!  IN glancing through the info in RoF - all the sub-races seem to just mention the parent race language, and Common - as well as 'regional' languages based on where the individual is from.
I am leaning towards the various non-human sub-races using the same languiage - but with definately identifiable accents - much like I mentiond previously - perhaps having Sun elves speak in a 'proper' of 'Queen's Elvish' if you will (much like one might refer to the 'Queens English' on Earth - and have the Moon elves speak differently - with some replaced words - like American English, and have other races - like Wild/Green elves speak in other accent forms - maybe 'Brooklyn-ese' or something sounding like 'Aussie' English. (*PSA - Just as a note - I am NOT picking on anyones accents! I am just using well-know differences to illustrate my meaning!*)
Whew - that took longer than I thought it would!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Racial Languages
