| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 15:42:04
|
A spin off of discussion of "made by Drow" or "Drow make" that occured in another scroll.
Items madeby Drow clearly would be for an Elven body type. 3.0 did remove sunlight decay, -Underdark- (Forgotten Realms Campaign Supplement) brought it back for at least some items, including Drow armor and weapons. Something that I do not care for because it does not make much sense to me. SKR even has a rant about the issue http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/drowitemsdontdecay.html . Two here at candlekeep have disagreed with how I read "made by Drow" and/or "Drow make" offering instead an understanding that any item made by Drow is "Drow make" (I am looking at this as a descriptor).
The guestion then becomes how does one know a chain, mesh armor that is elven sized was made by Drow as oposed to made by another elf or that matter a different race altogether.
There are a couple of ways one can detrime Drow manufacter.
1) Appraise skill
2) Special material
3) Watch it being made by a Drow
4) Identify spell or other magic
1) Clearly does not work for all characters
2) There is a history of this
3) It is posible but impractical and clearly does not work with a found item.
4) Posible but adds a cost and/or delay into knowing who made it.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 19:39:55
|
| I think that the drow weapons idea worked great in the novels, but in terms of gameplay, I agree with Sean about them. It's really annoying to get gear that works for you, especially unique gear, only to have it crumble to dust in the sun. It makes no sense that drow items should crumble, but surface items don't disintegrate due to the radiation in the underdark. On the other hand, this issue does make it harder for drow to exert influence over the surface. If as a DM, I was going to keep the drowcraft items, I would make sure to inforce the fact that they can't easily make surface raids of any significant length. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
 |
|
|
bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 05:20:27
|
There are plenty of skills that could detect Drowcraft items. Craft(Item in Question), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(dungeoneering), Knowledge(Underdark local), or decipher script(if there are runes or such on the items).
I'm fine with the old 'drow stuff falls apart in sunlight'. I understand the whine that players should get 100% of the loot from a battle.....but what about all the other 'unuseable stuff.' Do all humanoid's use sword just so the players don't get 'useless' weapons like spears and clubs? Do we get rid of the vile evil items so the good characters can use them too? Or the classic 'this item only works for this race', drop that too? How about things like Grafts? Or cursed items? Thoes would be just as unfair as you get no loot...right?
BT |
Edited by - bloodtide_the_red on 05 Apr 2006 05:23:32 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 06:30:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
It makes no sense that drow items should crumble, but surface items don't disintegrate due to the radiation in the underdark.
It makes perfect sense to me... Drowcraft items have had their molecular structure altered by faerzress, which breaks down in sunlight (because of UV rays, perhaps, triggering another molecular change?). Surface items would have to be bathed in faerzress radiation for a long period of time before they'd suffer the same effects. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 07:17:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
It makes no sense that drow items should crumble, but surface items don't disintegrate due to the radiation in the underdark.
It makes perfect sense to me... Drowcraft items have had their molecular structure altered by faerzress, which breaks down in sunlight (because of UV rays, perhaps, triggering another molecular change?). Surface items would have to be bathed in faerzress radiation for a long period of time before they'd suffer the same effects.
If I were using this notion in a game, I'd probably have surface items alter from faerzress after a certain amount of time as well. I still think it's a "neener neener" DM tool which upsets the balance of opponent treasure vs. CR. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 20:09:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
There are plenty of skills that could detect Drowcraft items. Craft(Item in Question), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(dungeoneering), Knowledge(Underdark local), or decipher script(if there are runes or such on the items).
I do not see craft (smith) realy providing the ability to know what race made that chain mail which is the big reason of why I started this thread for discussion. A smith could determine is the chaim mail was masterwork or not.
Knowledge (Arcane) might not apply as Drow equipment does not detect as magic, unless its components are different then other chain (the material aspect) but even then how can one be sure it was crafted by a Drow instead of an Elf that learned Drowcraft?
The same applies to the other knowledge checks, it could be a Drowcraft counterfit, just looking like it was actually was made by a Drow when made by another race. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 00:42:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
There are plenty of skills that could detect Drowcraft items. Craft(Item in Question), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(dungeoneering), Knowledge(Underdark local), or decipher script(if there are runes or such on the items).
I do not see craft (smith) realy providing the ability to know what race made that chain mail which is the big reason of why I started this thread for discussion. A smith could determine is the chaim mail was masterwork or not.
Knowledge (Arcane) might not apply as Drow equipment does not detect as magic, unless its components are different then other chain (the material aspect) but even then how can one be sure it was crafted by a Drow instead of an Elf that learned Drowcraft?
The same applies to the other knowledge checks, it could be a Drowcraft counterfit, just looking like it was actually was made by a Drow when made by another race.
I would require a high DC Craft (armorsmithing or weaponsmithing) roll to recognize the crafsmanship. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 04:48:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
There are plenty of skills that could detect Drowcraft items. Craft(Item in Question), Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(dungeoneering), Knowledge(Underdark local), or decipher script(if there are runes or such on the items).
I do not see craft (smith) realy providing the ability to know what race made that chain mail which is the big reason of why I started this thread for discussion. A smith could determine is the chaim mail was masterwork or not.
Knowledge (Arcane) might not apply as Drow equipment does not detect as magic, unless its components are different then other chain (the material aspect) but even then how can one be sure it was crafted by a Drow instead of an Elf that learned Drowcraft?
The same applies to the other knowledge checks, it could be a Drowcraft counterfit, just looking like it was actually was made by a Drow when made by another race.
I would require a high DC Craft (armorsmithing or weaponsmithing) roll to recognize the crafsmanship.
I would agree, unless the person was familiar with the products of a particular race or had a high DC in craftmanship with that item, discovering a forgery would be highly unlikely. |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 06:10:42
|
| I would probably grant a synergy bonus to the roll if the character had Knowledge (local) of the area where the item creating. I'd probably also lower the DC at that point. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 08:32:36
|
See, now I'd say the Craft Skill can identify racial items. The whole idea is the craftsman is an expert at his work and knows theas kinds of things. Yes the craftsman needs to be exposed to the stuff and all...but the Game way we do that are skill checks. And if he is from an area were drow are know about, like say Shadowdale or Dambrath then he gets a plus to the skill check. He need not seen a race's item, maybe he just heard about it from some other craftsmen. And, sure, make the DC high. Nothing wrong with that, not every craftsman knows this stuff.
BT |
Edited by - bloodtide_the_red on 07 Apr 2006 08:40:30 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Drowcraft
