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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2003 : 04:45:42
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I would like to here from everyone how they handle problem players. You know the type - rules quoters, arguers, players who are 'just there' and don't really play, excuse mongers, etc. I feel that these type of players really bring down the game as a whole because they tend to monopolize game/DM time. What are your thoughts on this?
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"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2003 : 14:21:07
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I found a pretty good solution.
When we sit down around the table, i say where they'll sit down. The ones who don't impose themselves next to me. The ones who always try to speak before the others at the other end of the table. And never forget to always have the same order to ask "what do you do?" (I do it from left to right when the initiative doesn't apply).
But the best is to discuss with your players. I'vegot one who always read EVERYTHING about what they are involved in. For example, they were in Myth Drannor 714DR, he know everything about this year, so i had to change things. It's a lot of work.
The rule quoters are boring, the only soluyion i found is discussion.
And i don't understand excuse mongers  |
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Drizzt Do Urden
Acolyte
Netherlands
33 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2003 : 12:37:14
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| yeah i know the problem when i was for a short time dm... |
Once the Menzoberrenzan Drow run away from the Drow Practices in other cities. Then they settled Menzoberrenzan, and prayed to there evil and mad godess Lolth, the Spider Queen. Then they turned the same way has there far away cousins (isn't that ironic)
Bless Mielikki, and the good people of the Realms |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 06:01:49
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quote:
And i don't understand excuse mongers
Excuse mongers are those players that will come up with every excuse in the book when you ask them for their updated (Leveled up)PC's, their background, or basically anything that you as a DM needs to keep the continuity of the story or to make sure the game is balanced correctly. This is really my biggest problem with a few members of my group. I give them plenty of time to do this(usually 4-6 weeks) but they always come up with a reason why they couldn't get it to me by the time I asked. It almost feels like I have to 'baby sit' them in that respect. Very frustrating! |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2003 : 17:48:30
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I rarely have problem players, but if I do then I take them aside and speak to them about it in the hope they will see sense. I sit them as far away from me as possible and give their character minimal action until they calm down. If the worst comes to the worst, I chuck 'em out.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2003 : 22:33:48
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Some interesting replies so far.
I agree that discussion is the best way to deal with this particular problem. Unfortunately, TDM said it best. When worse comes to worst, the offending player gets booted form the game. I have had to do this with one player in my game already, and it unfortunately ruined our friendship.  Not that it was really strong to begin with, but it really makes me sad to have to go to this length to preserve the enjoyment of the game for ALL involved. My only consolation was that, the other game that is played by this group is run by my best friend, and he had to do the same thing to this individual. A small consolation, but at least it was there. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2003 : 02:40:10
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Be an Iron Fisted DM. Most of my players know the rules, and if they don't have everything I ask for on their sheet, it is their loss.
Be fair, but remember that the DM is Physics, Nature, Society, and the World. Players do not have the ultimate authority. Most of all don't be a jerk or arrogant. It is a fine line to walk, but it can be done.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2003 : 22:09:35
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I have only twice had to remove people from the game. Once because he was the shitest RPer you can ever imagine, he just would not learn, and the others threatened to leave if he was not removed. The other time was one idiot who attacked everything and got the others killed and screwed up the quests. He was also arrogent, and took up nearly all the time on his character's actions. I really had no choice.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2003 : 23:27:29
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I don't have "excuse mongers", i've got the opposite. A player that calls me twice or three times a week to speak about his character and the ongoing campaign. And some others gave me 7 pages background!!!
And i don't give ONE look to their CS, i just trust them. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 01:30:11
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ZEMD!!!
Those are the types of players you WANT!!!!
I had one problem player who Lunged at every potion and drank it before anyone could try. It annoyed me alot, so I had placed a stone flask on a counter once which radiated magic (nystul's magic aura). Well this pain swallowed down the contents of the flask only to find out he had just swallowed a BLACK PUDDING. IDIOT...
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 04:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by mournblade94
ZEMD!!!
Those are the types of players you WANT!!!!
No kidding Mournblade! Luckily, those type are the majority in my group. I only have one now that gives excuses, and I have a feeling he won't last much longer. One good thing is that the rest of the group is completely behind me if I do decide to boot this guy. He's the type of player that is 'just there' anyway, and doesn't really do much except be another target for the opposition, or just another attack for the party. When he does come up with something, it's usually an idea that he took from one of the other party members.
zemd: That sounds like our group when my buddy Duane is running. Myself and my bud Shannon in particular. I think we call him at least 2-3 times a week about a month before the game to try and get some new info on what the game will be about. I guess most gamers are pretty much the same, no matter where you go!  |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 13:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
zemd: That sounds like our group when my buddy Duane is running. Myself and my bud Shannon in particular. I think we call him at least 2-3 times a week about a month before the game to try and get some new info on what the game will be about. I guess most gamers are pretty much the same, no matter where you go!
Yes but it can't be annoying (well... it IS annoying). When someone always says "you should ...", "Next time i plan to ...", ...  |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 18:21:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
I would like to here from everyone how they handle problem players. You know the type - rules quoters, arguers, players who are 'just there' and don't really play, excuse mongers, etc. I feel that these type of players really bring down the game as a whole because they tend to monopolize game/DM time. What are your thoughts on this?
To rules quoters (AKA rules lawyers): "It doesn't work that way in my game."
To arguers: "It doesn't work that way in my game."
But you can't appear inflexible, as in "I'm right even when I'm wrong." You have to be willing to take some advice. No one knows everything (rules lawyers and arguers just think they do).
To non-participants: "Look, if you don't want to play, that's fine. It won't hurt my feelings if you quit playing."
I don't think I've ever encounterd an "excuse monger". |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 21:02:54
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quote:
Originally posted by zemd
Yes but it can't be annoying (well... it IS annoying). When someone always says "you should ...", "Next time i plan to ...", ...
Well, I guess we're in that class a little bit, although, we never tell him what he should do (at least not seriously). We always seem to just pester him about what's going to happen or what we'll be facing next. Considering we only get to play about twice a year, this only happens about a month before the game anyway, and I think he kind of expects it. If we don't call him, he usually calls us. 
Man, what I'd give to be able to play in a quality game on a weekly basis again! |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Alexis Merlin
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 22:58:46
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(Please note that all the experiences I mention have happened to me as a DM (not always FR or indeed AD&D but I figure they may be of interest anyway as it is a general topic on problem players))
I agree with Zemd that those players can be a little annoying...especially when they harass you throughout College and even in the frick'in library when you're trying to put the finishing touches to a piece of Coursework that's due in next lesson...
Still they are better than those with no imagination who are little more than sword-carrying pieces or those who declare at every encounter "I'll hit him/her/it" even before the DM has a chance to finish his lavish and long-prepared description of the situation or character..and then for some reason find this intensly funny and spend the rest of the session laughing about it  (Not that I'm bitter or anything really )
Generally I do my best to find out what the player's would really like to achieve in the Game and work it into the adventures somehow - that normally placates most would-be problem players who feel they are being constantly ignore or whatever.
However you will always get some who are plainly pyscopathic and just want to disrupt the sessions as much as possible (fine if they are disliked for it by the other players but when they are popular outside of the gaming group it is extremely hard to get rid of them without destroying the entire group - that's what I ended up doing with my last one...anyone who would like more details Mail me and I would be happy to elaborate  )
I guess I've only really lost my temper once (as a DM) in a game of the old Dragonstrike in which a Mage takes a number of spell cards and discards them as he uses them...it turned out that he had been palming some back into his deck whenever I turned away and no-one else cared enough to inform me of this  ...
 I don't know whether the above can be said to be entirely on topic...apologies if you don't think it is
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It is knowledge that influences and equalizes the social condition of man; that gives to all, however different their political position, passions which are in common, and enjoyments which are universal.
(Benjamin Disraeli)
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2003 : 03:27:42
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Hmmm. I don't have alot of experience DMing, but as a player (an evil one ), I'd just kill them off. It's not fun for them but they shouldn't have been a joy-kill.
As for being a DM. Don't change your world to fit them. You are the GOD(relatively speaking) of their world. And as so your entitled to make your world however you feel like making it. CHanging it to fit them just makes them stronger (and could weaken other players). |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2003 : 18:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Salius Kai
Hmmm. I don't have alot of experience DMing, but as a player (an evil one ), I'd just kill them off. It's not fun for them but they shouldn't have been a joy-kill.
As for being a DM. Don't change your world to fit them. You are the GOD(relatively speaking) of their world. And as so your entitled to make your world however you feel like making it. CHanging it to fit them just makes them stronger (and could weaken other players).
I agree that killing their character is anther good method. It shows them that they're not invincible and gives them a week or so to 'cool off' as they design another one.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2003 : 18:56:59
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| This is a dangerous solution. As a DM you should be ABOVE gods, really neutral. Killing someone "just because i decided" should be done as the very last solution |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2003 : 21:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by zemd
This is a dangerous solution. As a DM you should be ABOVE gods, really neutral. Killing someone "just because i decided" should be done as the very last solution
I agree zemd. If it's gotten to the point of killing off the PC because the player is being a jerk, then the game would proabably be better off if the offending player was just asked to leave the group. Killing the PC off might make the player get his act together, but more often times than naught, it just creates even more friction.
If talking to them doesn't work, booting them from the game is usually the only solution left.
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"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2003 : 21:27:35
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But one of the most common 'problems' that a problem player has is charging in blindly, attacking everything and playing much to high odds. Killing the character shows him that this does not work.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2003 : 22:15:49
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| I wouldn't call that a symptom of a problem player TDM. It's usually a mark of an inexperienced or very young player, who wants to do nothing more than kill something and get it's treasure because that's all he thinks the game entails. Typical hack and slash as opposed to roleplaying. It really depends on the mind set of the player. If he's doing it just to be funny or 'cute', then I'd say just boot him because he KNOWS what he's doing. If he really doesn't know any better, talk to him, and if that doesn't work, then by all means show him the error of his ways. Sometimes that is what it takes. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Problem Players
