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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2006 : 23:09:29
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Just a topic for idle chat.
As many of you know, the original Realms that has been print centered mostly around the Sword Coast and the Western Heartlands. Through the years, various designers have elaborated on the periphery regions, perhaps taking a region named in Ed's notes and really adding detail to the place or sometimes just creating an entirely new region from scratch. Some of those followed the atmosphere of the Realms and others not so much.
Which of these add-ons do you think turned out to be the most "Realmsified"? A region that was either detailed with the tone of the Realms in mind or even a place that wasn't as seamlessly integrated but over the years has become so. I am speaking more of the places in Faerűn, rather than other continents like Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, though the topic question could be applied to those as well. I look forward to reading everyone's opinion.
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2006 : 23:35:10
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Well, let's see. We need to start with figuring out - what was added on?
The Bloodstone Lands
Chessenta
Unther
Mulhorand
What else am I missing here?
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2006 : 23:47:04
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Well, let's see. We need to start with figuring out - what was added on?
Chessenta
Unther
Mulhorand
What else am I missing here?
Note: these weren't add on's according to Ed in his Feb, 28, 2005 reply: "OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 01:38:18
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quote:
Note: these weren't add on's according to Ed in his Feb, 28, 2005 reply: "OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms."
Ah, okay. So they were specifically made to be port-overs from Earth.. Just just shoddy earth analogies. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 03:12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Note: these weren't add on's according to Ed in his Feb, 28, 2005 reply: "OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms."
Hello-
Has this surfaced anywhere that anyone is aware of? Is it housed here at Candlekeep? Just - curious! :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 03:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Ah, okay. So they were specifically made to be port-overs from Earth.. Just just shoddy earth analogies. :)
I suppose that makes sense, given that the Realms has always been a place with links to other worlds. 
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 06 Aug 2006 03:16:58 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 03:18:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Note: these weren't add on's according to Ed in his Feb, 28, 2005 reply: "OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms."
Hello-
Has this surfaced anywhere that anyone is aware of? Is it housed here at Candlekeep? Just - curious! :)
Dhomal
I think it's this:
http://www.hallofhero.com/sand/FR10_oe/oeprint.pdf (older version)
and
http://members.tripod.com/KingsTears/downloads/OldEmpiresMay2003withnobackground.pdf (newer version) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Aug 2006 03:20:07 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 03:30:04
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Hm, I should have asked for those links, myself.
Thanks, Kuje. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 03:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Has this surfaced anywhere that anyone is aware of? Is it housed here at Candlekeep? Just - curious! :)
It's somewhat rare to find on the web these days, as many of the sites that use to host it, have dropped it. A quick google search reveals the few places that did have it, no longer do. It's made worse by the fact that two editions were available. One more updated than the other.
I've got copies myself, so if you can't find them, I'll be happy to send them to you.
EDIT: Ah, Kuje has found them on the new "Hall of Heroes" site. Neat. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Aug 2006 03:34:24 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 04:04:42
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| Maybe we need Alaundo to ask if he can keep these here at Keep. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 05:33:50
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| I'm still interested in the original topic, though. What "tacked on" places actually feel Realmish? Personally, Impiltur feels like it has that Realms flavor (and I liked the way Richard Lee Byers wrote about in in the Rogue Dragons trilogy). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 05:41:56
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Well,
I still think we need a list of what places are really tacked on and which aren't, at least for Faerun. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 05:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well,
I still think we need a list of what places are really tacked on and which aren't, at least for Faerun.
True, true. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 05:48:01
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Well, to answer the original question, here's my two candidates.
Moonshaes would be the most clearly added on area of Faerun as it had no bases in Ed's original and was also more centrally placed than many of the other d-ones, but this area has, with a couple of exceptions, mostly been ignored by others than Doug Niles who created them. These have a somewhat different feel to them, with the whole Celtic/Norse theme, but this is not as strong as in many of the other add-ones.
The Empires of Sand (Amn, Tethyr and Calimshan) were in the original Realms, but where given a strong middle eastern flavour by the author first detailing them in a product. This was worked with by later writers and in Steven Schends works fitted better into the realms as a whole.
If I were to say one region outside of Faerun it would have to be Zakhara, as the Arabian adventures world helped solve a few of the other ad-ones and did to a very small degree conflict with the logic of Faerun. Maztica, the Hordelands and Kara-Tur did in my opinion create more problems than really expand the world. That is of course purely subjective. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 06:39:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Maybe we need Alaundo to ask if he can keep these here at Keep. :)
I recall asking him this about a year ago, when a similar topic came up here at Candlekeep.
Alaundo suggested he may look into hosting them here as well. I guess it's time for a reminder. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 07:29:19
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Kara-Tur always felt the least Realmsified to me, due to not only it drawing directly from Asian culture, but being situated "East" of Faerun, being shaped vaguely like Asia, and having DIRECT, unadulterated, blatant, idiotic references to specific Asian countries, periods, NPCs, and historical events.
Just terrible. :( |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 07:33:20
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Are you talking about areas that were tacked on by TSR (i.e. the Bloodstone lands) or areas that were part of Ed's Realms but relatively undetailed, like the Shining South?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 07:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Are you talking about areas that were tacked on by TSR (i.e. the Bloodstone lands) or areas that were part of Ed's Realms but relatively undetailed, like the Shining South?
-- George Krashos
He said "add-ons", so I assumed the former (tacked on by TSR). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 07:45:56
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Kara-Tur always felt the least Realmsified to me, due to not only it drawing directly from Asian culture, but being situated "East" of Faerun, being shaped vaguely like Asia, and having DIRECT, unadulterated, blatant, idiotic references to specific Asian countries, periods, NPCs, and historical events.
Just terrible. :(
I totally agree. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 19:54:47
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I meant both (any, all). "Add-on" was the simplest way for me to get the point across in the thread title. Any place that departed from Ed's core conception of the Realms, either entirely new places like the Bloodstone Lands or the Moonshaes or places with names and basic outlines by Ed but aren't quite like his original plan like the Old Empires, Shining South, or Lands of Intrigue. And we might as well involve the other continents as a side discussion.
Maybe we can talk about the out-of-game history of these places, the process that went into detailing them, do they draw from the designers' personal campaigns, etc. Similar information is being discussed in the Dragons of Faerun thread. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 20:37:28
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| Impiltur isn't an add-on at all... And I don't think Amn, Tethyr and Calimshan came out all that different from how they were originally. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2006 : 22:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Impiltur isn't an add-on at all...
Ooops, I stand corrected. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Most Realmsified Add-on Region
