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Ladern
Acolyte
Mexico
14 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 01:41:31
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It might be that im just wake from the wrong side of the bed, but i have read the treads for a while, have read my FR books and reading the information in the official site of WotC and i realise that they have messed all in the Storyline and the accesories.
In a post before they said that the new format for the accesories is adventures in the geographical zone with some lore about the place. In example "Mysteries of the Moonsea". As i see these format make the things easier for the DM that don't have time to prepare their adventures, but they take away the most important things i look in a Zone accesory, the raw information about whats going on in that place, the history of what's happening, the major diferences that make that place unique (No even one Prestige Class for the Zhent, or a new race or zomething like that). I don't think that site adventures are a bad Idea, but an expanding accesory from a region must expand the rules, the history and the knowledge in that region (as the accesories before that); not using the place to make adventures and adding 5 pages of background for that adventure.
Ok, the other issue is Storyline, In some place of the official site i read that they will take some 24 or more months of real time to advance one year in the events, but since then they made novel after novel after novel and they advance 3 years in just a click. Even so fast that they themselves just don't agree in the official events. The last book Dragons of Faerun make up for the events of the year of Rogue Dragons, but right now there are novels about the year of Risen elfkind and the year of Lightning Storms. As the persons that read some novels have written in this forum many things in the novels don't make sense cause one autor write it even before of knowing whats going to happen in a novel which events happen a year before.
At least but not at last, i think WotC is a respectable enterprise (although i reserve my opinions for Magic.... I need a therapist), and i think that their intentions for calling more persons to play D&D are notable (as seen in D&D for Dummies and the goal of simplify the game) but they must take quality and not quantity in their minds. OK, after all is just a Game, but its my favorite game and i don't want to see the realms(a great proyect, include many congratulations and flattery for Ed Greenwood and all the others that made Toril go round), i said see the realms a mess cause someone upstairs want a bigger sale or just dont take the time to order it.
Maybe im wrong, maybe im a loony, maybe im just meessing around (after all my character is a Tiefling Rogue/Fatespinner CN), But if one of the scribes can send me a way to make my voice be heard by the staff of WotC and if anyone thinks like me (more or less) lets make something to keep a great game GREAT!!. As Big Ed said lets tell them what we want.
Thanks
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If life turns back at you.....
Sneak Attack for extra damage |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:00:59
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| With some of the things, notably the consistency errors, and from certainly an outspoken group, the new sourcebook format, you're preaching to the converted. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:03:34
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I actually agree with most of what you're saying here...
But those of us who hold such opinions are a minority, and due to democracy and capitalism, that means we automatically lose. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Ladern
Acolyte
Mexico
14 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:09:32
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well maybe we can call the some of the Big Bad Bosses and make a site where we make the things as we want, we could take over the world and bought WotC and make them write as we want.
Ok im getting carried away but we must do something before it sinks and FR turns into a "StrWrs III" where someones like it someones not, but everyone agree that it lost the road somewhere.
sight |
If life turns back at you.....
Sneak Attack for extra damage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:12:37
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| I think it's already been on its way there. I mostly live for products and novels put out by the older authors, myself. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:59:23
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Do novel timelines and sourcebook information for playing DnD not always synch up? Yes.
Does that fact affect game play? No.
Does that fact limit one's ability to read more novels? Again, no.
So if a lack of exact synchronicity doesn't effect game play and does not prevent the reading of more novels, then you're going to have to come up with a good alternate argument for why WotC should bother to spend more time (and therefore money) to synchronize their products.
Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a high level of 'agreement' between novels and sourcebooks.
But OTOH if a large number of fans email and/or write to WotC to express this expectation and go out of their way to not purchase any novel or sourcebook that doesn't conform to what these fans want...well then WotC will listen.
So there is one possible 'argument' (of sorts).
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 02:59:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ladern
It might be that im just wake from the wrong side of the bed, but i have read the treads for a while, have read my FR books and reading the information in the official site of WotC and i realise that they have messed all in the Storyline and the accesories.
In a post before they said that the new format for the accesories is adventures in the geographical zone with some lore about the place. In example "Mysteries of the Moonsea". As i see these format make the things easier for the DM that don't have time to prepare their adventures, but they take away the most important things i look in a Zone accesory, the raw information about whats going on in that place, the history of what's happening, the major diferences that make that place unique (No even one Prestige Class for the Zhent, or a new race or zomething like that). I don't think that site adventures are a bad Idea, but an expanding accesory from a region must expand the rules, the history and the knowledge in that region (as the accesories before that); not using the place to make adventures and adding 5 pages of background for that adventure.
Ok, the other issue is Storyline, In some place of the official site i read that they will take some 24 or more months of real time to advance one year in the events, but since then they made novel after novel after novel and they advance 3 years in just a click. Even so fast that they themselves just don't agree in the official events. The last book Dragons of Faerun make up for the events of the year of Rogue Dragons, but right now there are novels about the year of Risen elfkind and the year of Lightning Storms. As the persons that read some novels have written in this forum many things in the novels don't make sense cause one autor write it even before of knowing whats going to happen in a novel which events happen a year before.
At least but not at last, i think WotC is a respectable enterprise (although i reserve my opinions for Magic.... I need a therapist), and i think that their intentions for calling more persons to play D&D are notable (as seen in D&D for Dummies and the goal of simplify the game) but they must take quality and not quantity in their minds. OK, after all is just a Game, but its my favorite game and i don't want to see the realms(a great proyect, include many congratulations and flattery for Ed Greenwood and all the others that made Toril go round), i said see the realms a mess cause someone upstairs want a bigger sale or just dont take the time to order it.
Maybe im wrong, maybe im a loony, maybe im just meessing around (after all my character is a Tiefling Rogue/Fatespinner CN), But if one of the scribes can send me a way to make my voice be heard by the staff of WotC and if anyone thinks like me (more or less) lets make something to keep a great game GREAT!!. As Big Ed said lets tell them what we want.
Thanks
What you are saying makes more sense than you think. As of third edition, I notice that WOTC has grown more and more inconsitant between their material. You are not the first one to notice this and it is becoming a problem. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 03:15:56
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quote:
Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a high level of 'agreement' between novels and sourcebooks.
Interesting, because that was one of Steve Schend's jobs, and he seemed to do it very well (with Elaine praising him on it). |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 03:39:15
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I recall the mantra from six/seven years ago on the Realms-L list: "Bring Steven back! Bring Steven back!"
To which the fact is: He left that job by his own choice. Churning out page after page of Realmslore probably left him wishing for a change of pace.
If WotC can bring him back into the fold without burning him out...well I'm all for it!
From a business standpoint, it's perfectly reasonable to ask 'how much is necessary?' in terms of coordination? How much $ should be spent on 'minding the ship' in terms of what authors in books are doing as opposed to what the current FR design team (in house and out of house) are doing? Should one person track it all? Should the heads of each department meet once per month, etc...?
It's also very important to figure out what the customers want.
I wish WotC would give us a hint as to the current state of the Realms demographic.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 03:42:41
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quote:
To which the fact is: He left that job by his own choice. Churning out page after page of Realmslore probably left him wishing for a change of pace.
Actually, he told us he quit doing sourcebooks because he can fit "at least 70% more lore into novels." :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 03:56:25
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I never got the impression that was a verbatim reason for why he left, though.
After all we haven't seen anything with his name on it in a long time.
That he's chosen to come back into the fold with novels is good though.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 04:36:01
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| I mostly agree, but I don't think the timeline has skipped ahead THAT quickly. The timeline has advanced about two years in five real time years--not exactly lightning fast. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 05:23:40
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quote:
I never got the impression that was a verbatim reason for why he left, though.
After all we haven't seen anything with his name on it in a long time.
That he's chosen to come back into the fold with novels is good though.
J. Grenemyer
The fact that he specifically stated that he is writing WotC novels over sourcebooks because he can pack lore into them is a good indication that he didn't stop in the first place because he was sick of writing lore, though. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 08:52:07
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Actually, given the statements of other designers re: his departure, it's a very good indicator.
I'm glad he's back!
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 14:58:59
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
I never got the impression that was a verbatim reason for why he left, though.
After all we haven't seen anything with his name on it in a long time.
That he's chosen to come back into the fold with novels is good though.
J. Grenemyer
The fact that he specifically stated that he is writing WotC novels over sourcebooks because he can pack lore into them is a good indication that he didn't stop in the first place because he was sick of writing lore, though. :)
Don't take me literally re: lore in novels, folks; I was being flippant there as a reason why I'd rather write novels instead of game books.
And no, I was never sick of FR or the lore. There were a lot of other factors going on at the time I left WotC, and in the interests of professional and personal privacies, I'll not go into those. Suffice it to say that I'm very happy to be back in the Realms in any form, and hope to do as much as they're willing to publish. 
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 15:00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Actually, given the statements of other designers re: his departure, it's a very good indicator.
I'm glad he's back!
J. Grenemyer
Hm. Now you've got me curious as to what other designers were saying re: my departure.....  
SES
who asks J. to email him offlist if it'll be awkward to air such discussions in public |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 15:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I wish WotC would give us a hint as to the current state of the Realms demographic.
I think a lot of us would. Though judging from what Kuje reported from GenCon and the new direction sourcebooks seem to be moving in, we can at least guess. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 15:50:43
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I would like to know something about those sales numbers. SKR said that the old TSR sourcebooks sold far less compared to the new stuff.
If that is true WOTC is doing the right thing, businesswise. If they cannot make money of a product the product will get canceled. I'm not sure the old FR items didn't make a profit either. Sure, TSR had to close down etc.etc, which was, if I remember correctly, a business problem with too many books being returned at the end of a year or some such thing. But no profit on the items we miss so dearly now?
If I see those numbers I believe it.
Are we, who like lore etc yada yada, in the minority? If we are then we cannot change a single thing because we are not the target audience for the sales.
The way Wizards produces sourcematerial we have a couple of high quality, glossy items per year instead of the old b/w stuff TSR released. I certainly don't need full color stuff, sure it looks nice, but if I want to look at pretty pictures I buy an artbook or some such thing. Maybe the new format attracts new players, but what new player would start with a regional sourcebook? If I buy a regional sourcebook I already have some experience with the game or the setting and really am interested in the setting.
But maybe I'm just too logical in that regard.
I couldn't care less about the wrapping, I prefer good chocolate, so to speak... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:17:08
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As always, I have to say, have faith, and hang in there. Let WOTC know what your opinion is via e-mail or mail or whatever other option you have, and let them know in a manner that isn't so offensive that they dismiss your opinion outright. Don't buy things that are definately not interesting to you, and hope for the best.
To be completely honest, I've been on this ride since 1987, and there have been a few other times in Realms history where it has felt like there was something lacking. As we learned in Dragons of Faerun . . . all things move in cycles. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:40:17
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I am trying not to be to pessimistic about the future of the realms under WOTC, and as KnightErrandJR says, there's always hope, but I have to say those immortal words "I have a bad feeling about this"
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:47:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As always, I have to say, have faith, and hang in there. Let WOTC know what your opinion is via e-mail or mail or whatever other option you have, and let them know in a manner that isn't so offensive that they dismiss your opinion outright. Don't buy things that are definately not interesting to you, and hope for the best.
To be completely honest, I've been on this ride since 1987, and there have been a few other times in Realms history where it has felt like there was something lacking. As we learned in Dragons of Faerun . . . all things move in cycles.
I agree...
As I feel: D&D was once a small little company with simple booklets, black-and-white hand drawings and a lot of love, blood and sweat put in...then it became a bigger “little company” (that had some color pictures, just as much love, blood and sweat and a lot more campaign worlds) but it ultimately stumbled and fell and was bought by a “big” company (that didn’t put in as much love, blood and sweat) which was soon eaten up by a “biggest” company...which are usually described as “soulless” (thus very little love, blood and sweat).
The decisions that Wizards of the Coast, Inc, which is really Hasbro, Inc, a global super-company (now that WoTC is owned/a subsidiary of Hasbro) doesn’t really ever surprise me...they are a big company trying to make as much profit as they can and the people that run WoTC ultimately have to answer to Hasbro (i.e. where is our $$$)
If they get more $$$ by abandoning their core D&D fans (with a 25 year + core base) for “fad” products (ahem, miniatures) then so be it...there is always the next children’s fad to make $$$. That is why letters to the company and buying the quality products is important...you can only communicate with Hasbro with your $$$
And if they were to dump the Forgotten Realms another d20 company/brand would pick up the slack (like what happened to Ravenloft). I converted to 3.0 more than 4 years after 3.0 came out...I enjoy and love new Realms canon but I don’t need the campaign world to be “alive” for me to play...just ask any 2nd AD&D, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. player. But I do have faith that the Realms will pull through...I just hope I have the patience to do so 
OK..my half-thought out rant is over... 
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:22:46
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... and it´s splendid!!!
Thanks, Kalin! You "spoke my thoughts", I could say... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As always, I have to say, have faith, and hang in there. Let WOTC know what your opinion is via e-mail or mail or whatever other option you have, and let them know in a manner that isn't so offensive that they dismiss your opinion outright. Don't buy things that are definately not interesting to you, and hope for the best.
Judging by your post on this subject at 'the other boards', there seem to be a lot of people in agreement with you. I only hope they take notice. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 19:18:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
...who asks J. to email him offlist if it'll be awkward to air such discussions in public
No problem I can probably do that tonight (after regular DnD Game Night is over) or tomorrow after work.
All the same I'm glad you're writing Realmslore and apologize if mine and Dan's discussion of your prior work history offended!
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 21:47:58
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| One problem I have with the FR franchise, and this probably did not start with WoTC, is that some novels are really tough for the non-FR fan to understand. Characters, monsters, place names and lore pop up ofthen without any explanation at all. |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 22:11:25
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Well said, Kalin. We vote with our dollars, and that is all that the big company is going to understand. They can recieve a few letters from die-hard fans, but if certain items are selling and others aren't then those letters don't mean much. Although I am pretty selective with what I purchase, I am very happy with what I get. I understand that some people have a lot of complaints ranging from chronology to "RSE"s, but I still feel that WotC is putting out high-quality stuff, and that the developers and writers are top notch.
I do agree there should be total open communication with the developers and authors to ensure that RSEs mesh up properly. |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:22:26
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quote:
Don't take me literally re: lore in novels, folks; I was being flippant there as a reason why I'd rather write novels instead of game books.
And no, I was never sick of FR or the lore. There were a lot of other factors going on at the time I left WotC, and in the interests of professional and personal privacies, I'll not go into those. Suffice it to say that I'm very happy to be back in the Realms in any form, and hope to do as much as they're willing to publish.
I apologize too...
But I'm glad that it turned out I was right. ;) You didn't seem like the type of person to "get sick of writing lore"! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:27:58
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I really dislike how the newer novels "feel like a game." The older writing seemed more 'normal' fantasy; now when I'm reading newer novels (not all of them, cough, thanks Steve!, I find myself rolling my eyes at how blatantly D&D things are. Blatantly FR is fine and good and I want it! But, not "zomg this is SO D&D."
And I really can't say that I didn't see this coming, since it's been partially here for the past 5 years. I've pretty much stopped buying sourcebooks that don't have TSR-employee names on the cover in prominent display, and I'm happy with this decision.
And I'd still buy a big "Book of Ed's Answers about FR" in hardback. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 01:14:13
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I really dislike how the newer novels "feel like a game." The older writing seemed more 'normal' fantasy; now when I'm reading newer novels (not all of them, cough, thanks Steve!, I find myself rolling my eyes at how blatantly D&D things are. Blatantly FR is fine and good and I want it! But, not "zomg this is SO D&D."
And I really can't say that I didn't see this coming, since it's been partially here for the past 5 years. I've pretty much stopped buying sourcebooks that don't have TSR-employee names on the cover in prominent display, and I'm happy with this decision.
And I'd still buy a big "Book of Ed's Answers about FR" in hardback.
I understand what you are saying GD. the old material, not just the novels, but the sourcebooks as well, had a more "booklike", "lorelike", and authentic feel to it. Plus back then they were more consistant between their material as well.
Third Edition just completly contradicted almost everything in the previous ones and made HUGE changes to the game. Plus the D&D sourcebooks are more like textbooks now rather than fiction.
But hey, if this is good for business, then all I can say is keep it going and lets hope that all this additional cash can get us new and exciting products. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 01:19:10
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| Mind you, I'll hardly say that the old material didn't have inconsistencies in it - but I think it wasn't quite as often, and they didn't retcon things as much. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 01:31:18
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I really dislike how the newer novels "feel like a game."
For perspective, it's worth noting how fans ***for years*** have whined, complained and publicly insulted novel authors for not 'following the rules'.
Now we see one or more authors trying to reflect game rules in the novels....and so we have criticism of that (and to be clear, it's mature, smart criticism so far).
It's rule of life reflected in publishing decisions: If a publisher like WotC listens to fan group A, then they end up upseting fan group B, and vice-versa.
Interesting.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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The mess of FR and WotC
