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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 05:37:22
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Just a quick question about the Physical Characteristics of Harper Pins.
Is there any mention of how big one is? The weight is given as negilible, so im guessing that its rather small. Does it have any magical protections against being discovered from a pat-down, or do we just have to rely on its small size?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 05:44:44
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I don't think its ever been specifically referenced how big a Harper Pin actually is. Though Elaine mentioned their size being "small" back in Elfshadow, as I recall.
For the powers of the Harper Pin, see Code of the Harpers.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 15 Aug 2006 05:45:28 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 05:55:53
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Looked there. 
It mentions that you cant find one via a spell, but theres nothing on if you can find it physically. I would be surprised if there wasnt some enchantment to at least make it difficult to find via a pat-down, considering the amount of protection thats on one against magical discovery. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 06:03:12
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| Magic of Faerun has the 3e harper pins. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 09:20:11
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Looked there too, nothing on size or any physical protections. Ah well..
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 09:23:41
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| 'tis a pin. To me that means maybe a width of maybe 3 cm and the same height... something that can be noticed but also hidden |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 11:14:11
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| I'd say it's about the size of a coin... Maybe two inches in diameter, if that. As for physically finding it, if nothing says the pin is magically hidden, then I'd assume it isn't. Keep in mind that in the beginning of Elfsong, Danilo placed Arilyn's hand on his hidden Harper pin, as a way to remind her of their mission. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 14:30:28
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In my game it is similar to pins you can get from all kinds of organisations, schools, universities, ensurance comp. ect. It comes in different sizes, not bigger than 5cm, diffenent colors, shapes and motives, sometimes with ribbons or without, can be worn anywhere (pinned to vest, hat, under the collar of one's cape) so either openly or hidden.
I have not found an official source that specifies the size or the looks. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 15:08:04
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| the old harper novels series has many references. I have always imaged them as small, maybe an inch or two in diameter. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 16:10:58
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| In Cormyr: A Novel, the Harper/tavern dancer keep hers in a locket (she opens the locket to show it to Vangerdahast). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 16:17:54
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An inch-and-a-half to about two-inches in diameter seems reasonable, for the most part. They're not flashy or decorative pieces of jewelry, so I'd assume that the actual size of a Harper pin reflects that nature.
MoF references them as "brooches", which again hints at a relatively small size.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 17:37:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd say it's about the size of a coin... Maybe two inches in diameter, if that. As for physically finding it, if nothing says the pin is magically hidden, then I'd assume it isn't. Keep in mind that in the beginning of Elfsong, Danilo placed Arilyn's hand on his hidden Harper pin, as a way to remind her of their mission.
Allow me to correct myself: it was the short story "The Bargain", in Realms of Valor (and assumably in the Best of Elaine). My brain wasn't fully engaged yet when I typed that post.  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 18:12:12
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I have been thinking about this, also did some searches for an official size with no luck.
It is very posible that the pin is two or more different sizes. The emblem and ability of the pin more likely more important.
Some pins are very small IRL, I have collar pins that are less then an inch in length or width.
Also I am not sure a cion would be as large as two inchs, but base metal applies. Coins are 50 to the pound the density of the metal effects how large a coin would be. Thickness of the coin of course also a factor. A copper coin might be fatter then silver or gold to achive a standard diameter. If all coins have the same diameter one needs to calculate a reasonable demessions of the coin that has the highest density that is thick enough not to bend or break apart. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 18:17:49
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| is there a picture of a harper wearing their pin you can reference and use as perspective for size? And that everyone will agree on that it is the right size? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 18:38:50
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
is there a picture of a harper wearing their pin you can reference and use as perspective for size? And that everyone will agree on that it is the right size?
Well search gave me two posible images where a harper pin might be displayed. I lack the grahic tools to enlarge the images without distortion.
http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Default.aspx?doc=fr_heroesofspellfire
The cover of Spellfire which I infer is picturing two harpers.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frgr/20040326a
"Harper Agent Set 4 Card 10: Expansion" that pictures a harper I infer.
I could not see a pin on either of these images.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 00:56:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It is very posible that the pin is two or more different sizes. The emblem and ability of the pin more likely more important.
Indeed. I'd considered this myself, especially with regard to the differences between the lesser and greater Harper pins as noted in MoF. While I don't think there would be too much difference in the relative sizes of both types of pins, some degree of size difference, along with the differences in powers for both pins and their make-ups, would make it easier for Harpers to, visually, determine which is which. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Aug 2006 00:58:15 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 01:29:04
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| So I would guess maybe a Spot check DC 20 (at least) to notice a concealed pin (depending on how well concealed) and maybe 10 or 15 for one that is showing? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Harper Pins
