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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 12:07:16
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| I voted Bhaal, because Baldurs Gate was my introduction to the realms, so I've always been irrationally fond of the Lord of Murder. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 22:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I voted Bhaal, because Baldurs Gate was my introduction to the realms, so I've always been irrationally fond of the Lord of Murder.
You know, I rather have to agree.
For me, Bhaal = fond memories. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 14:02:33
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Good ideas are one thing... successively implementing them and carrying one's "brilliant ideas" forward is completely another -- even for a god.
Myrkul and Bane likely thought they were themselves quite smart for their theft of the Tablets of Fate and supposedly now possessing the ability to tame Ao's great power. Though Ao proved, through his own response to the theft and, ultimately, through the end-results of the ToT itself, that Myrkul and Bane clearly had very little true understanding about just what Ao could do and what he was about.
Their combined "brilliance" ended up costing them practically everything.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Dec 2006 14:10:41 |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 14:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Good ideas are one thing... successively implementing them and carrying one's "brilliant ideas" forward is completely another -- even for a god.
Myrkul and Bane likely thought they were themselves quite smart for their theft of the Tablets of Fate and supposedly now possessing the ability to tame Ao's great power. Though Ao proved, through his own response to the theft and, ultimately, through the end-results of the ToT itself, that Myrkul and Bane clearly had very little true understanding about just what Ao could do and what he was about.
Their combined "brilliance" ended up costing them practically everything.
Yes i agree with you "The Sage"
Tell me, one good that were more briliant than Myrkul ?  |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
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Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 27 Dec 2006 14:25:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 15:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Tell me, one good that were more briliant than Myrkul ?
All the ones that didn't take the Tablets of Fate. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ebonshine
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 18:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ebonshine
One of the designers of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has come right out and said that he is no longer insane, in other words stating your opinion of him is incorrect... and that is not good enough for you?
You're not reading me right. I didn't deny the restoration of his sanity. I denied that the return of his sanity meant he's not still pulling the "evil for evil's sake" routine. And I never stated he was stupid or psycho.
I guess I wasn't understanding you correctly.
I really don't know what you mean by evil for evil's sake. Don't all evil deities do such? Commit acts of atrocity for their own benefit? Did you mean just random acts of evil for no apparent reason? Which is something I suppose Cyric could be accused of but then if such random acts lead to strife and murder, which is more than likely the case I would assume, then that supports his domain and portfolio so it really isn't just evil for evil's sake.
Also, if my memory serves, doesn't the Lords of Darkness book state that Cyric is consolidating his power presently to recover from his bout of insanity? Isn't that statement, if it is accurate, a modicum of proof that he is no longer mad and that his actions aren't just random but have a purpose beyond what was seen after he read his own book?
Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You, like many, don't care for Cyric, while I on the other hand prefer him over any other dark deity in the Forgotten Realms. Talos, Shar, and Garagos (once he finally goes CE) are also preferable in my opinion to any of the other deities mentioned by the original poster.
Bhaal was an incompetent dark god whom even in the game that put him on the map again, so to speak, got bested by one of his followers, Melissan I think her name was, when she chose to keep his power for herself instead of returning him to existence. So even in the popular Baldur's Gate series he was a failure in the end.
Myrkul I actually liked but I didn't understand why he allied himself with either bane or bhaal, two incompetents. That alliance was his downfall although as I stated earlier I like his current situation as a malevolent artifact.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 22:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Tell me, one good that were more briliant than Myrkul ?
All the ones that didn't take the Tablets of Fate.
Or that managed to successively remain "alive" after the ToT itself. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 13:08:56
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| Just curious Victor, what is it that makes Myrkul brilliant to you? I prefer the older Gods as well, but I never thought of Myrkul as especially clever or wise. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2006 : 17:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Tell me, one good that were more briliant than Myrkul ?
All the ones that didn't take the Tablets of Fate.
Or that managed to successively remain "alive" after the ToT itself.
Okay i can see the funny part here , but plz anser my question?
Seriously, I fail to see the brilliance in getting oneself destroyed in a plot that is sure to anger the one being that can totally end your existence. It would be more intelligent to assault the entire US 7th fleet with a rowboat and BB gun. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 20:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Or, as per my new theory, it's all a con job by Xvim. 
You too? I really loved the idea that despite the Banefog and every other attempt by Xvim to prove he's much more badass than Cyric or Bane ever was, that people refused to take him seriously (possibly because of his name).
So he just decided to say he's Bane.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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boddynock
Learned Scribe
Belgium
258 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 23:29:51
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| After reading the novels prince of lies and the trial of cyric the mad I began to like Cyric the mad. In my own campaign my players have ended one of Cyric's plans. So ... at this very moment they have to watch their back for the black sun's vengeance :-) |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 03:12:53
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| I have to agree that Xvim is so much...well cooler than Bane. If you read the 'Current Clack' in Cloak and Dagger you will know why. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, he will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who celebrate after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, Id be wondering: Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE youre adventurers? -Ed Greenwood
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
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Grandmaster Kane
Seeker
64 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 12:01:29
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| Bane 4 life!!!! |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 12:25:58
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I voted for Leira. It's quite possible that Cyric is an illusion spun by her.
As regards Iyachtu Xvim, the name sounds like it was a result of a sale at Consonant U Like. Nice diety in his approach but cursed with a terrible name. Not a name that I'd cry out in the throes of passion (whether relgion inspired it or otherwise.)
With respect to Myrkul, should he now be the God of Irony since some refer to him as the slain god of death?
I've never really understood the dead gods concept. To my mind the only way to kill a god is for no-one to pray to them and no-one to hear the name and think of the deity. The power required to do that would be immense. Once a god always a god in my mind. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 22 Jan 2007 12:27:34 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 12:31:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I voted for Leira. It's quite possible that Cyric is an illusion spun by her.
That idea actually sounds good to me. A being of no existence being driven mad by its own being. A sort of Moorcock meeting Poul Anderson. Welcome back by the way. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2007 : 20:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Welcome back by the way.
Thank you. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 21:50:38
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| Myrkul - Former god of corruption, the dead, death, old age. Slain by Mystra. |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 02:16:35
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| Bring them all back... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 16:50:44
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| Personally, I like Kelemvor and his different feel for a death deity, and Myrkul likes not being a deity, so I see no reason to swap this. I would not mind if Bane completely put the beat down on Cyric and stole his portfolios. Mixed feelings about the new Mystra (Midnight), not that it matters now that she is dead again. I find it sad that Leira is gone, and with such little noise as well. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 23:57:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric, to me, is an opportunistic git, and someone who perfectly fits the concept some players have that being evil means being a murderous psychopath. Since his ascension, he's been "Ooh, look at me, I'm evil!" I don't like that, so I don't like Cyric.
Bane has never appealed to me, either. Though he's not the lunatic Cyric is, to me he comes across as being much like Cyric -- evil for evil's sake. I wasn't pleased with his return.
I have to disagree, as I like them both. It somehow just amuses me to think of the Realms having two gods of tyranny. Especially since Cyric is one of those deities whose followers can prompt normally antagonistic people to join forces to deal with them. This can lead to all sorts of torture amusement.
quote:
I'm happy that Bhaal is dead. I didn't see the point to him. "Ooh, I like to kill people!"
I saw him as more of a 'Kali and the Thugs' deity. I could still get behind a God of Murder if, say, said deity was also shown as doing something like destroying demons who threatened the Realms.
quote:
I like Myrkul's current state. I didn't have many feelings towards him as a deity, either positive or negative. But a former god who's now a powerful artifact, happily popping around the Realms causing trouble? Ooh, now that is a seriously fun concept!
Fully agreed. Myrkul makes a great long-term villain to oppose PCs with.
quote:
Kelemvor I like. I much prefer his "Death is natural, deal with it." approach to Myrkul's "Ooh, death is scary!" approach.
I didn't see Myrkul as so much a "Death is scary!" as "Death will be plenty scary if you don't fork over the funeral fees!" Hmm, also, if Myrkulyte priests handled the funeral parlors of the Realms, then does that mean that even normally good cities had small temples to Myrkul operating openly? ("When it's time to send your loved ones off to the afterlife, please remember the Grey Wastes House of Eternal Peace. Or we'll reanimate your grandfather and send him over to strangle your children. And remember, friends, our special bargains for anyone willing to allow the local Brotherhood of Bhaal to inter their own, ahem, 'projects' with your deceased loved ones.") |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 05:37:17
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If I could, I'd vote for all of them, save for Leira and Xvim (I never, ever, liked Xvim). IMO, you can have them all coexist. About half-a-dozen of Myrkul's Portfolios, for instance, currently lie unclaimed. He can snatch them up easy without any trouble. The only ones which've been claimed have been Death and Fall. Kelemvor could keep Death while Myrkul strips Fall off of Mielikki.
As for Bhaal, he to can be a God of Death and Murder. Demigods are the exception to the rule that only one god within a pantheon can possess a single Portfolio. So as long as Bhaal remains a Demigod, he can hold the Portfolios of Death and Murder even though Kelemvor and Cyric also have them. So if I had my way, this is how things would look...
CYRIC - Murder, Strife, Lies, Intrigue, Deception, Illusion
BANE - Hatred, Tyranny, Fear
BHAAL - Assassination, Murder, Violence, Death
MYRKUL - Wasting, Decay, Corruption, Parasites, Old Age, Dusk, Fall, Exhaustion
KELEMVOR - Death, the Dead |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Joly
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 05:07:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
I didn't see Myrkul as so much a "Death is scary!" as "Death will be plenty scary if you don't fork over the funeral fees!" Hmm, also, if Myrkulyte priests handled the funeral parlors of the Realms, then does that mean that even normally good cities had small temples to Myrkul operating openly? ("When it's time to send your loved ones off to the afterlife, please remember the Grey Wastes House of Eternal Peace. Or we'll reanimate your grandfather and send him over to strangle your children. And remember, friends, our special bargains for anyone willing to allow the local Brotherhood of Bhaal to inter their own, ahem, 'projects' with your deceased loved ones.")
I played a cleric like this once :D. 10 years after the end of the time of troubles, so Kelemvor was still new on the scene. My cleric was just a mortician who was a cleric of Myrkul, prior to his passing. He was not very happy to see his beloved boss die. They HATED Cyric and were not fond of Kelemvor either. They were activley trying to ressurect Myrkul and that of course means reforming the church. They somehow managed to tap Myrkul's power(feat) and tried to open up a new funeral parlor.
Keep in mind the FOUNDATION of Kelemvors church was made up of.... clerics of Myrkul! When Myrkul died, his clerics almost wholesale went to Cyric and then again almost wholesale, to Kelemvor.
My cleric went to Baldur's Gate and opened up a new funeral parlor simply devoted to "the god of death". The local temple of Kelemvor was discredited and the clerics of it shamed after several missions to ruin their good name.
Several of Kelemvors clerics were stolen back to our side. It turns out the rest of them were animating undead, oh no! Everyone in the city was SHOCKED when (enchanted) clerics of Kelemvor were found leading a hoard of undead out of their chappel and slaying people in the streets! Dozens of innocent people were slain!
It took our party weeks of murder people, stealing corpses and animating them in a tunnel right beneath Kelemvor's chappel to build a big enough hoard.
Not to fear noble citizens, the noble priests of the TRUE god of the dead was here to save them from the imposter! Que my cleric and the other players who were Myrkulites clerics. They showed up "just" in the nick of time to turn back the evil hoard! A search of the building found symbols of CYRIC! A few clerics of Kelemvor were still hiding inside, the players lead the mob to drag them into the street and tear them to pieces.
Que my cleric and the party standing on a street corner. "FRIENDS! COUNTRYMEN! HEAR THE SACRED WORD! The great lie of Kelemvor is but that, A LIE! There is no KELEMVOR! It is but a mask for another face, the face of CYRIC THE LIAR! CYRIC who comes for your children! CYRIC who steals from your pocket and plots to murder your familly in your bed! THE TRUE LORD OF THE DEAD still lives and all of you are decieved! Our lord will ALWAYS PROTECT YOU from CYRIC THE LIAR! Our 4 clerics then raised dead 4 dead children to shock the crowd.
Our little funeral home became a large temple to Myrkul, operating in the open and drawing the faithful to the city :). We never returned Myrkul to godhood, the group had to disband but that was a GOOD campaign :).
Campaigns focused around raising dead gods are fun IMO.
Can you guess who I voted for?
Actually I voted for Bhaal, but I want Myrkul back too! 
Unlike most here, I *LIKE* Cyric. He is a fantastic scape goat for evil characters. Everyone hates and fears Cyric, so a smart evil character will claim that their god will protect them from Cyric. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 11:46:55
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Aye, I ken, 'tis an old scroll indeed. Boo-hoo, 'tis a scroll about bringing back dead GODS and ye're quibbling about a scribbling or two being brought back? 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]I don't think a true tyrant would flaunt his victory by leaving visible reminders of someone he had taken out. A true tyrant would, IMO, remove all visible signs of those who had gone before.
That's why I favor either the "Oops, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm Xvim Bane!" theory.
I don't know, I can't quite agree with that.
A Lord of Murder, Destruction or Oblivion might well do that that; but Tyranny implies control over someone, no?
One can't be a tyrant over empty thrones and wastelands, can one? As important as the awesome power one wields is someone to wield it over, someone to bully, frighten and control.
Flaunting his domination over Xvim would seem very in line for Bane's portfolio, at least. Tyranny over the bonds of family, tyranny over death itself and tyranny over the natural order where son is borne of father and not vice versa. In so many words, an ultimate act of tyranny.
With that being said, though, I can't imagine Xvim being destroyed. His essence resides in Bane, subdued by his power but subtly trying to influence his decisions. Just as the cowed populations of the Heartlands will one day (at least in Bane's dreams) scheme for position under his undying Black Throne. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 11:56:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric, to me, is an opportunistic git, and someone who perfectly fits the concept some players have that being evil means being a murderous psychopath. Since his ascension, he's been "Ooh, look at me, I'm evil!" I don't like that, so I don't like Cyric.
Well, opportunistic lust for power at any cost is a valid model of 'evil'. And when there actually exist forces of Evil in the world that reward such behaviour, it's not at all unlikely that at least one God would be a person who got where he is by seizing his chances and lying, cheating and backstabbing more than the rest.
That being said, I liked Cyric's portrayal in James Lowder's 'Laughter in the Flames' Realms of Infamy (1994), page 293. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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The new deities
