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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 15:21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Aye, I ken, 'tis an old scroll indeed. Boo-hoo, 'tis a scroll about bringing back dead GODS and ye're quibbling about a scribbling or two being brought back? 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]I don't think a true tyrant would flaunt his victory by leaving visible reminders of someone he had taken out. A true tyrant would, IMO, remove all visible signs of those who had gone before.
That's why I favor either the "Oops, I'm back!" theory, or the "Hey, look at me, I'm Xvim Bane!" theory.
I don't know, I can't quite agree with that.
A Lord of Murder, Destruction or Oblivion might well do that that; but Tyranny implies control over someone, no?
One can't be a tyrant over empty thrones and wastelands, can one? As important as the awesome power one wields is someone to wield it over, someone to bully, frighten and control.
Flaunting his domination over Xvim would seem very in line for Bane's portfolio, at least. Tyranny over the bonds of family, tyranny over death itself and tyranny over the natural order where son is borne of father and not vice versa. In so many words, an ultimate act of tyranny.
With that being said, though, I can't imagine Xvim being destroyed. His essence resides in Bane, subdued by his power but subtly trying to influence his decisions. Just as the cowed populations of the Heartlands will one day (at least in Bane's dreams) scheme for position under his undying Black Throne.
I don't think flaunting his domination over Xvim would be out of character... But some details about Bane have changed, making him more like Xvim. Particularly the color change of his holy symbols... Making your own symbol a blend of yours and your vanquished foe's isn't flaunting domination, in my mind -- it's showing integration, and that's not tyrannical. Now if Bane's new symbol actually showed subjugation or defeat by consuming or crushing Xvim's symbol, then that would have been tyrannical. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 17:14:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think flaunting his domination over Xvim would be out of character... But some details about Bane have changed, making him more like Xvim. Particularly the color change of his holy symbols... Making your own symbol a blend of yours and your vanquished foe's isn't flaunting domination, in my mind -- it's showing integration, and that's not tyrannical. Now if Bane's new symbol actually showed subjugation or defeat by consuming or crushing Xvim's symbol, then that would have been tyrannical.
Well, he is squeezing the green rays in his Black Fist. That, to me at least, is pretty evocative of domination over Xvim, over death and the natural order.
And it recalls the event when Bane burst out of Xvim in green flames. Which was the God Bane's finest hour and greatest victory.
But for all that, I still agree that the reborn Bane is in many ways influenced by the subsumed essence of his son, perhaps much more than he realises. Perhaps, if the Sellplague hadn't happened, there would be scope for Bane to defeat Cyric and steal his porfolio of intrigue, only to find out that the porfolio did not go do him, but to Xvim as his servitor God. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 19:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think flaunting his domination over Xvim would be out of character... But some details about Bane have changed, making him more like Xvim. Particularly the color change of his holy symbols... Making your own symbol a blend of yours and your vanquished foe's isn't flaunting domination, in my mind -- it's showing integration, and that's not tyrannical. Now if Bane's new symbol actually showed subjugation or defeat by consuming or crushing Xvim's symbol, then that would have been tyrannical.
Well, he is squeezing the green rays in his Black Fist. That, to me at least, is pretty evocative of domination over Xvim, over death and the natural order.
And it recalls the event when Bane burst out of Xvim in green flames. Which was the God Bane's finest hour and greatest victory.
But for all that, I still agree that the reborn Bane is in many ways influenced by the subsumed essence of his son, perhaps much more than he realises. Perhaps, if the Sellplague hadn't happened, there would be scope for Bane to defeat Cyric and steal his porfolio of intrigue, only to find out that the porfolio did not go do him, but to Xvim as his servitor God.
But Bane's colors were red and black, Xvim's were green and black. If Bane is dominating Xvim, why does his symbol have Xvim's color's, not his own? And why would he burst out in flames that are Xvim's colors, instead of his own? He's also been shown to now be favoring critters that Xvim liked... Put all that together with the fact that it's not unheard of for one deity to impersonate another that has fallen, and it presents an interesting picture.  |
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Finder
Acolyte
Canada
9 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 20:04:52
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I always felt that Xvim would have made a good focus on (lawful) evil raising again once more in the realms after the death of Bane and the overpowered Cyric (chaotic evil) dominating realms events for a time.
Xvim to me had possibilities for story telling in both the games and the novels as he was fighting to regain what his father had lost and was doing an ok job at it.
But the realms and authors I guess chose not to go down that root and took the easy way out in realms 3.0 as Banes return was sudden and surprising.
With Bane back I see no need for Xvim..... Perhaps his return asa demi-power could happen. If his father willed it I guess. Though I'm sure Fzoul needs no help. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 00:58:06
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During some of the earlier discussions between myself and Wooly about Bane's return, we speculated that Bane may have been experiencing some difficulties in completely subsuming the remnants of Xvim's essense. This was reflecting one of the theories about Xvim having more of a place in Bane 2.0's essence, and the fact that Bane 2.0 is essentially using Xvim's colours.
Bane's hand is squeezing the green rays [of Xvim] -- and if we look at that from the "Bane-eventually-subsumes-Xvim" stand point, that image itself could suggest Bane is perhaps closing in around Xvim's remnants, or rather, slowly squeezing it out of existence (or rather again, completely consuming it). Or, alternatively, looking at it from another perspective, with Xvim maintaining some place in Bane 2.0, maybe Xvim is fighting to maintain himself in spite of Bane's apparent [and overriding] presence.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 03:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
During some of the earlier discussions between myself and Wooly about Bane's return, we speculated that Bane may have been experiencing some difficulties in completely subsuming the remnants of Xvim's essense. This was reflecting one of the theories about Xvim having more of a place in Bane 2.0's essence, and the fact that Bane 2.0 is essentially using Xvim's colours.
Bane's hand is squeezing the green rays [of Xvim] -- and if we look at that from the "Bane-eventually-subsumes-Xvim" stand point, that image itself could suggest Bane is perhaps closing in around Xvim's remnants, or rather, slowly squeezing it out of existence (or rather again, completely consuming it). Or, alternatively, looking at it from another perspective, with Xvim maintaining some place in Bane 2.0, maybe Xvim is fighting to maintain himself in spite of Bane's apparent [and overriding] presence.
True... But I prefer my Bane is really Xvim in disguise theory.  |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 14:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
True... But I prefer my Bane is really Xvim in disguise theory.
Me too!  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 01:01:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
True... But I prefer my Bane is really Xvim in disguise theory.
Me too!
Make it so number 1!
(#1 fr designer  ) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 15:13:24
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I thought the whole method of Cyric's ascension and later acquisition of the Deception portfolio was contrived and shallow. Definitely not the way to create a new god. I also felt the murder of Mystra by Helm was completely out of character, and I have even less positive things to say about the current state of affairs in 4ed divinity.
It's not that I'm attached per se to the previous deities, it's that the methods of their destruction were so inane.
Ionik Knight |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 20:45:04
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| Leira isn't dead... its all a lie, a big illusion perpetrated on Cyric and Mask themselves. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 23:28:12
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I doubt it.
I'll note that an illusion crafted by Leira herself once made the moon appear to be a barren rock, hiding the actual landscape. I say "once made" because, with the death of Leira, and from apparent details in the "Countdown to the Realms" articles, we now know the illusion has fallen. That would seem to suggest that she is indeed gone. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lord Necro
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2009 : 12:52:17
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I voted for Myrukul of course
I do wish they hadn't gotten rid of him... |
"Time? time has no meaning to the dead..." ~ Necro Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade/Lich.
"Life is but a cloak we wear fleetingly.." ~ Etrius Lazerus, Male Moon Elven Shade. |
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IlnystaaraDarkstar
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 20:34:54
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| I voted Bhaal, because he and Myrkul are amazing-Bane is alive if u remember-and Cyric is crap because he killed mystra |
if the rogue in ur party sets off a trap that ends up turning half the party to stone, one person dead, one person insane, and one person to the abyss, you have a problem |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 20:48:22
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| I always kind of liked Leira, and I've always wondered about her maybe having something to do with Ravenloft. I thought it would be rather interesting, personally. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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slayer
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:31:19
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I sort of like the way things turned out, Cyric is the de-facto bad-guy and was set-aside via his imprisonment by the triad. But it's clear he still has his hand's on the strings as he unleashed Kezef on the planes and can still manifest his avatar outside of Pandemonium. Myrkul was a good "evil god" but as the god of death, wasn't doing his job, he just threw the faithful souls to the fiends... I'm sure the gods have many more petitioners to their realms with Myrkul gone... Cyric was the big opportunist though, he was just all about absorbing other gods and hence went on a killing-spree, and understandably so.
The way I see it Cyric had the initiative that the other evil gods lacked, who was REALLY insane in the ToT? Cyric murdering other deities to absorb their portfolios or Mystra bum-rushing Helm at the stairway to heaven knowing damn well she wasn't going to survive the encounter as a mortal...? Cyric's madness was merely imposed upon him by other greater powers, "madgod" was just a nickname, Cyric knows he's smarter then even most of the ancient deities, but his elevation to a greater deity during the ToT probably went to his head. The gods of illusion did what they could, but in the end were assimilated by Cyric's clearly superior deception and power. I think Cyric earned his stolen portfolios fair and square, even if his tactics are considered "repulsive" by even his evil peers. He knew he was more powerful as a mortal then the removed gods' mortal avatars and that it was perfect timing to become a god himself.
As for Bhaal and Bane, they both got what was coming to them, and probably saw it coming but Bane was far too powerful to be killed so easily, hence his sudden return. This may not be canon, but Bhaal planned similarly for his return by creating a cult during the ToT and impregnating many women of all races so that his essence remains in the realms after he was assassinated by Cyric (he knew Cyric was coming for him and that he wouldn't survive, somehow...). Too bad his high-priestess was overly-ambitious herself, Bhaal's resurrection would've been a blood-soaked nightmare, fun fun! Xvim was "fuel for the return" the same way the Bhaalspawn were IMO. (may not be canon) Myrkul is still technically "alive" although he just floats around as a frozen husk in the Astral Plane, I doubt he could be resurrected by anybody except Ao by now (which won't happen).
Myrkul was a monster and stepped on pretty much every god's toes by abusing his powers of judgment of mortals, tricking judged into making pacts with demons and devils and erecting the disgusting "wall of the faithless" in the city of judgment. I still don't know why Kelemvor decided to keep it, I bet Ao made him keep it when he also made Kelemvor change his avatar from his mortal form to a robed skull like Myrkul.
I'd rather end up in the pillar of skulls in Avernus then in that horrid wall of false souls, at least the skulls have their memories and sentience. Not to mention control of armies of devils on Avernus especially since there's no greatly powerful duke in the first layer of the hells after Zaphkiel's coup. |
"When you get to hell, tell em I sent ya, you'll get a discount" |
Edited by - slayer on 19 Aug 2009 11:01:40 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:54:50
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1. Cyric - I like using his church and organizations. Ignoring a few novels. Unaligned in my homebrew, different portfolios.
2. Leira - As a mystery cult.
3. Iyachtu Xvim/Bane amalgam, multiple personalities struggling for dominance.
Bhaal, Myrkul, Kelemvor, don't use them, neutral god of death is a better option tough. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 17:19:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
<snip>I also think that Bane, as a name, has a bit more gravitas than Xvim, but I did think that Xvim had an interesting recent history, which is why I wrote this piece:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/gotlt.htm
Which essentially lets Bane "come back" but still maintains all of Xvim's hard work.
<snip>
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, I'm more and more favoring the idea that Bane 2.0 isn't really Bane, but a new and improved version of Xvim capitalizing on his late father's position and reputation.
Yes, my Wooly one. Now that you have seen the "light," you can never be allowed to speak of this to ANYONE . . . bwa ha ha ha . . . "Bane's" reputation MUST be preserved . . .
Honestly though, as abrupt as Bane's return was, it definately got my wheels turning on how Xvim might have done this to get a "boost" from his father's reputation. Sure, the Zhentarim were under his control, but people were more afraid of Fzoul than they were of his god . . . co-opting Bane's name helps get you more respect.
My thoughts are that Bane, like all tyrants, expected his own demise, and fathered Xvim as a vessel for his own return, much like the Bhaalspawn. It fits nicely with canon on the matter, and allows the ToT to remain in the background; I didn't start DMing in the Realms until 2E came along, so I just decided to go with the changes... and about two months in, I realized just how silly it was to have killed off Bhaal. "Assassin" is less a character class than a job description, and the fact that all of the assassin-class characters are dead doesn't suddenly mean that nobody will be paying anybody to kill somebody. Hrm... there's a lot of bodies in that phrase... I'd better bury them. Anyway, long story short, both Bhaal and Myrkul have also found their way back to divinity in my Realms since the introduction of 3E, Myrkul less than voluntarily (it turns out that, like Bhaal, he fathered mortal children (just one, in this case), and this mortal (through a series of events partially orchestrated by Myrkul out of a desire to 'see' his progeny) ended up wearing the Crown of Horns, and the fragments of Myrkul's divine essence coalesced in the new host and returned to demipower status, leaving the Crown of Horns where it fell (the location of this event is uncertain at this point).  The diehard Myrkulites (?) felt the return of their deity, and spread the word among like-minded reluctant servants of Kelemvor and Cyric, quickly elevating Myrkul to the rank of lesser power, and that's where things stand now. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Aug 2009 17:22:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 18:15:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
My thoughts are that Bane, like all tyrants, expected his own demise, and fathered Xvim as a vessel for his own return, much like the Bhaalspawn.
The main reason I don't like this theory is that I personally don't see any evidence that Bane ever expected his own demise. I don't think it fits in with his schtick of being the ultimate tyrant, and I don't think he would have had the cojones to go after what he thought was the source of Ao's power if he didn't think he'd always come out on top.
If a tyrant is cast from power, he wasn't doing his tyrant job well enough. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 18:33:16
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| Right that would make Bane an EPIC FAILURE. Maybe thats why Bane returned Fzoul(Cyric I hate this guy) from the dead, He understands what it is like to EPIC FAIL. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 18:42:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The main reason I don't like this theory is that I personally don't see any evidence that Bane ever expected his own demise. I don't think it fits in with his schtick of being the ultimate tyrant, and I don't think he would have had the cojones to go after what he thought was the source of Ao's power if he didn't think he'd always come out on top.
If a tyrant is cast from power, he wasn't doing his tyrant job well enough.
True enough... and that's why this fits. The reason movie villains always fail is because they never have a backup plan for what to do after they spill the beans to the hero and the hero escapes (because this always happens; if you don't gloat, you're not being a proper villain). Bane/Xvim is smart enough to understand that anything (including the death of a god; after all, he caused at least one in his quest for divinity) is possible, and imho he would plan at least one contingency for the event of his own death. I know that I would, in his position.
Edit: Besides, going after all the marbles is insane without a backup plan, and Bane is anything but insane. Confidence is good, but the inability to believe in the possibility of failure is bad. If you don't believe that failure has the slightest possibility, you won't plan for it, and I don't see any of the Dark Three, particularly Bane, being that short-sighted. [/edit] |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Aug 2009 18:54:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 21:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The main reason I don't like this theory is that I personally don't see any evidence that Bane ever expected his own demise. I don't think it fits in with his schtick of being the ultimate tyrant, and I don't think he would have had the cojones to go after what he thought was the source of Ao's power if he didn't think he'd always come out on top.
If a tyrant is cast from power, he wasn't doing his tyrant job well enough.
True enough... and that's why this fits. The reason movie villains always fail is because they never have a backup plan for what to do after they spill the beans to the hero and the hero escapes (because this always happens; if you don't gloat, you're not being a proper villain). Bane/Xvim is smart enough to understand that anything (including the death of a god; after all, he caused at least one in his quest for divinity) is possible, and imho he would plan at least one contingency for the event of his own death. I know that I would, in his position.
Edit: Besides, going after all the marbles is insane without a backup plan, and Bane is anything but insane. Confidence is good, but the inability to believe in the possibility of failure is bad. If you don't believe that failure has the slightest possibility, you won't plan for it, and I don't see any of the Dark Three, particularly Bane, being that short-sighted. [/edit]
There's a difference between failure and death, though. Being thwarted in a goal doesn't necessarily mean dying.
That's why I don't see Bane planning for his own death. The ultimate tyrant would have to admit the possibility of defeat, and the possibility of being killed... Not only that, but if it was all planned, then Xvim would have also been a threat to Bane.
The fact that Xvim ruled independently on his own is something that to me indicates it wasn't a plan.
And the fact that "Bane Reborn" has taken the colors and some of the servitor critters of Xvim, instead of going back to being what he was originally, also speaks against it being a simple planned reboot. At the very least, there's still some of Xvim in Bane -- which means the tyrant can't even conquer his own son, or that the rebirth was not complete. Either option speaks against it being planned.
It's all these things that make me think Bane is long dead, and that Xvim has replaced him. There are signs Xvim is still part of Bane, at the least, and deific masquerades are already a canon part of Realmslore. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 22:08:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's a difference between failure and death, though. Being thwarted in a goal doesn't necessarily mean dying.
That's why I don't see Bane planning for his own death. The ultimate tyrant would have to admit the possibility of defeat, and the possibility of being killed... Not only that, but if it was all planned, then Xvim would have also been a threat to Bane.
The fact that Xvim ruled independently on his own is something that to me indicates it wasn't a plan.
And the fact that "Bane Reborn" has taken the colors and some of the servitor critters of Xvim, instead of going back to being what he was originally, also speaks against it being a simple planned reboot. At the very least, there's still some of Xvim in Bane -- which means the tyrant can't even conquer his own son, or that the rebirth was not complete. Either option speaks against it being planned.
It's all these things that make me think Bane is long dead, and that Xvim has replaced him. There are signs Xvim is still part of Bane, at the least, and deific masquerades are already a canon part of Realmslore.
Okay, this is starting to convince me (except that I still think that being thwarted in this particular goal would almost certainly mean death for the conspirators, canon outcomes aside). Combined with what you've said earlier:
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think flaunting his domination over Xvim would be out of character... But some details about Bane have changed, making him more like Xvim. Particularly the color change of his holy symbols... Making your own symbol a blend of yours and your vanquished foe's isn't flaunting domination, in my mind -- it's showing integration, and that's not tyrannical. Now if Bane's new symbol actually showed subjugation or defeat by consuming or crushing Xvim's symbol, then that would have been tyrannical.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bane's colors were red and black, Xvim's were green and black. If Bane is dominating Xvim, why does his symbol have Xvim's color's, not his own? And why would he burst out in flames that are Xvim's colors, instead of his own? He's also been shown to now be favoring critters that Xvim liked... Put all that together with the fact that it's not unheard of for one deity to impersonate another that has fallen, and it presents an interesting picture.
...here's what I think you're getting at, which is entirely logical in light of the evidence:
Xvim (with or without the assistance of a lingering fragment of Bane) decides to "become" his father because he's sick of being the Faerunian pantheon's Rodney Dangerfield. He retains certain aspects of his prior manifestation (colors, critters, etc) to keep the Xvimlar on side, but employs his late father's name in a vision designed to convert the hardcore Banites and the disgruntled former-Banite Cyricists "back" to his following.
It really is a brilliant move... which is why I think that there must be some aspect of the old Bane still in there. Xvim never struck me as being that bright, but I could be wrong... Either way, I like the reasoning, now that I've taken the time to piece it together.
I still may end up retconning the whole post-OGB timeline with regard to the deities anyway; I still like the Dead Three, and if I can keep them around *and* keep a more respectable Xvim in the picture, it's all good. My only regret (and it's a small one) would be losing Cyric... if I could figure out a way to justify his ascension without the deaths of the big three, I would have him cast as Bane's whipping boy.  Anyway, just a thought. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Aug 2009 22:10:37 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 22:28:38
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I vote Cyric!
Cyric has lived up to his scheming name by managing to slay "the Harlot". He certainly was not insane when he devised the plan to use Azuths Staff to reflect Mystras powers on her self.
*ducks as he dodges the arcane fire of Mystra-lovers*
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 22:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
...here's what I think you're getting at, which is entirely logical in light of the evidence:
Xvim (with or without the assistance of a lingering fragment of Bane) decides to "become" his father because he's sick of being the Faerunian pantheon's Rodney Dangerfield. He retains certain aspects of his prior manifestation (colors, critters, etc) to keep the Xvimlar on side, but employs his late father's name in a vision designed to convert the hardcore Banites and the disgruntled former-Banite Cyricists "back" to his following.
It really is a brilliant move... which is why I think that there must be some aspect of the old Bane still in there. Xvim never struck me as being that bright, but I could be wrong... Either way, I like the reasoning, now that I've taken the time to piece it together.
I still may end up retconning the whole post-OGB timeline with regard to the deities anyway; I still like the Dead Three, and if I can keep them around *and* keep a more respectable Xvim in the picture, it's all good. My only regret (and it's a small one) would be losing Cyric... if I could figure out a way to justify his ascension without the deaths of the big three, I would have him cast as Bane's whipping boy. Anyway, just a thought.
That pretty much is my reasoning. Though I give Xvim more credit for intelligence than you, I guess.
I don't see it as much being a thing of changing from who he was, as much as it is taking the mantle of someone more successful and more known. It wasn't Westley deciding to be a pirate instead of a farmboy, it was Westley becoming the Dread Pirate Roberts, because Roberts was well-known and established, and no one had heard of the Dread Pirate Westley.
Xvim knew the best way to get the power and respect once held by Daddy was to become Daddy himself. |
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slayer
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 06:27:19
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| What about Asmodeus? he just became the greater god of sin and has ages old connections to the upper planes, but is probably universally feared by now. Not only does he have all of the archdukes of hell under his thumb but he has friends in the ranks of the Tanar'ri demonlords, Grazzt and Pazuzu (maybe other Obylith too), perhaps even Orcus or Demogorgon. Basically he's got the nine hells AND the abyss under his thumb, I smell another invasion of the upper planes :). I had read he couldn't leave Nessus because his true form is too large (FAR too large). |
"When you get to hell, tell em I sent ya, you'll get a discount" |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 12:30:26
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| Iyachtu Xvim!!! |
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 16:45:43
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cyric hands down. always been a big fan. you know what they say "hatred originating from disriputable gentlmen is going to continually persist." or haters are ging to hate for short.
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"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 18:39:11
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I like Bane. Once Cyric is out of the way he'll make a nice worthy opponent for Asmodeus.
Don't care much for Cyric. Actually liked him for the first book or so of the Avatar series, he was the only one with reasonable characterization and competent skill...but then he started turning evil for no discernible reason and it just started getting silly from there.
Myrkul...I want to see him come back only in the sense that I want to see his plot continued. It's really a tossup between him and Kelemvor. I prefer the concept of Kelemvor; a true neutral god of death, but I hate the execution of that concept with Kelemvor. So deciding between them is a choice between a more likable character(Myrkul) and a more likable concept(Kelemvor).
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 21:09:53
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Never cared for Cyric, at all. Too much of a boring one-note. Bane, Bhaal and Cyric, though, so much richer and more interesting!
I voted Myrkul because I liked him the best of the three.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 19 Aug 2011 21:12:16 |
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Topic |
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The new deities
