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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2003 : 11:21:35
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Ah . . . the first time a complete stranger comes out and asks my advice on a D&D-related matter . . . and I have no answer.  I've only seen it once at a Walden Books, and I never opened it. Sorry. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2003 : 18:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by branmakmuffin
Cult_Leader:
quote:
Bookwyrm, what do you think about the book of vile darkness? Is it worth my time in buying it?
I realize you're asking for Bookwyrm's opinion, not mine or anyone else's, but the consensus of the thread seems to be that it's worth buying.
Thanx bran. I will have to look into it then. I have afew good ideas for a chron. But I want to have a few more D&D ideas placed in withy my own evil ones... to hide the main quest of it .. which will like normal be dancing around the pc's and making me able to wave my Plot Hook around in their faces. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2003 : 22:24:44
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Cult_Leader:
quote:
Thanx bran. I will have to look into it then. I have afew good ideas for a chron. But I want to have a few more D&D ideas placed in withy my own evil ones... to hide the main quest of it .. which will like normal be dancing around the pc's and making me able to wave my Plot Hook around in their faces.
If you buy it and don't like it, don't complain to me.  I said it was the thread's consensus, not my opinion. |
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Lord Hoth
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2003 : 02:11:44
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quote:
HAH!!! Book of VIle Darkness my A@@!!!
"I bought the book of vile darkness and the only thing I found useful was the DARK SPEECH and Soul rules. The book is pretty cheesy otherwise. It was hardly vile.....
Of course all my players are 20+ in age and no one minds. But the book of vile darkness only helped me in finding rules for souls, and Dark speech. Other than that it is a joke.
Agreed, the name most of the people i know have for it is the Book of Vile Dorkness. It annoys me that, being marketed for mature players, they spent sooo much time detailing demons and devils! Those arent the only evil in the world folks! I would have prefered much more on Slavery, Drugs, cannabalism, Persecutions, Hate....organizations that exemplify these ideals and such. instead we get tons of different demon and devil PrC's....things that should have been saved for the book of fiends.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2003 : 09:33:11
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I think the BoVD is a worthy addition to any D&D library, if you have a necessary need for it. I have used a lot of the material in the book for both my FR and PS campaigns, but I complement alot of the material and stats from the BoVD with what I read from my copies of Legions of Hell and Armies of the Abyss.
I think that for the most part, I use the demon and devils stats, the most, over and above the rest of the content, but that's just because alot of my FR campaigns are normally planar-heavy adventures, involving tanar'ri, baatezu, infernals, deities and demigods.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 10:28:17
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| I just wanted to say I liked this book. Among my favorite sections were the rules on Sacrifices (I use this, usually by rolling randomly, when my characters encounter a cleric near an evil temple of their own god. Like around Zhentil Keep) and the feat Dark Speech. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 02:10:40
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| I liked the book, Dark Speech being nice and also sacrafice rules helped determine that is there any benefit doing inteligent humanoid sacrafices. Also some PrC are nice and some feats but some cases it sucked. But in overall nice book added to collection altough PICS sucked and that annoyed :P. Only good pics were most arcdevil pics. |
Edited by - Kazzaroth on 13 Jul 2006 02:11:13 |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 00:16:26
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The mature label was hardly neccisary. WoTC probably just put it up there to impress people and get them to buy the book. I have it and trust me, it isn't even close to mature. It is just the typical skull and bones depiction of evil backed up by a few philisophical discussions on subjects like lying and cheating and etc. The new feats and artifacts are useful and the Archfiends, despite in my opinion horribly underpowered, would make great end-campaign bosses.
The book is good if you want a sourcebook of information giving you new and creative ways to add evil to your game. But if you are expecting a book of philosophy explaining to you the greatest secrets of evil, you will be disappointed. If you want to understand evil, go and read the Satanic Bible, not the BoVD. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 00:40:57
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The Satanic Bible?
Bwahahaha.
Ahem, sorry.
I found the BoVD to be really.. Cliche and silly. It's actually one of the few books I prefer the mechanics of and a few of the options about evil applied to mechanics and the like. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 01:22:06
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| I agree, I didn't really care for the BoVD vision of "evil"--way more cartoony than "mature". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 01:28:48
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| I mean, sure, such things would be evil.. But it's made out to be like they are EVIL. Like, the definition of evil. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 03:50:46
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
The mature label was hardly neccisary. WoTC probably just put it up there to impress people and get them to buy the book. I have it and trust me, it isn't even close to mature. It is just the typical skull and bones depiction of evil backed up by a few philisophical discussions on subjects like lying and cheating and etc. The new feats and artifacts are useful and the Archfiends, despite in my opinion horribly underpowered, would make great end-campaign bosses.
It wasn't to impress people, it was to cover their butts. If someone's mother picked it up and flipped thru it, and found the section on necrophilia, they could raise all kinds of hell over it. Putting the sticker on the cover means Wizards' lawyers could point and say "Hey, lady, we warned you what was in it. What's your kid doing picking up this kind of clearly labelled material?"
The urge to CYA is quite strong in the corporate world, due to the many lawsuits that consumers have filed against them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Jul 2006 03:51:20 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 04:32:13
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You beat me to it Wooly.  |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 04:41:24
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| I certainly think this a very good tome for DMs, and perhaps even for some evil PCs. We have used it in our campaigns mostly for "flavour", and to give evil NPCs some new spells (some of them modified to add more "evil" to those spells ;) and vile feats. I think it has solid content, and it is up to every DM how he/she uses that lore. Although some of the feats (or spells) may seem "underpowered" when compared to other sourcebooks, they might add to the atmosphere of the campaign if NPCs utilize them. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 13:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I certainly think this a very good tome for DMs, and perhaps even for some evil PCs. We have used it in our campaigns mostly for "flavour", and to give evil NPCs some new spells (some of them modified to add more "evil" to those spells ;) and vile feats. I think it has solid content, and it is up to every DM how he/she uses that lore. Although some of the feats (or spells) may seem "underpowered" when compared to other sourcebooks, they might add to the atmosphere of the campaign if NPCs utilize them.
Asgetrion, that is my point with this book, too. I don´t think of it (or any other book) as the more macabre, more vile, or more mature. I think, first of all, in the usability in my campaigns (I´m a DM in integral time), and in mood and atmosphere. In that points, BoVD is always a good source of resources and lore to me. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 02:43:49
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
The Satanic Bible?
Bwahahaha.
Ahem, sorry.
I found the BoVD to be really.. Cliche and silly. It's actually one of the few books I prefer the mechanics of and a few of the options about evil applied to mechanics and the like.
Yes, there is a book called the Satanic Bible. It was written in 1969 by a guy in San Francisco. It is one of the "holy" books of the Occult. Here is a link: http://www.satanicrituals.com/bible.htm
And from what I heard, the Book of Exaulted Deeds got far better reviews than the BoVD. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 05:08:43
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I know what the Satanic Bible is. I just find it hilarious. Then again, I find all religions a bit amusing...
Anyway, I find the BoVD to be about on par with the BoED - neither of which being particularly good. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 15:58:39
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Maybe there should have been more on ritualistic killings, rapings etc... um... well...no!
Not with a book that is still openly on display. If I look back on what Black Dog did, and there really were some disgusting things in Clanbook Baali, such a book, properly written would be a marketing desaster. Detailed descriptions on how demon worshippers cut up their victims, maybe a real diary of a madman, some realistic pics of a fiendish sex ritual with a blonde virgin, maybe even a necrophiliac necromancer bonking a recently severed head, maybe toss in a few pedophiliac things as well...
UGH! Aside from being REALLY vile and evil this book would have never made it into any kind of hobby store, or even a bookstore. In all honesty would anyoone want such a thing in their bookshelf?
I don't! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 16:20:59
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| and I echo you, Mace. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 20:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe there should have been more on ritualistic killings, rapings etc... um... well...no!
Not with a book that is still openly on display. If I look back on what Black Dog did, and there really were some disgusting things in Clanbook Baali, such a book, properly written would be a marketing desaster. Detailed descriptions on how demon worshippers cut up their victims, maybe a real diary of a madman, some realistic pics of a fiendish sex ritual with a blonde virgin, maybe even a necrophiliac necromancer bonking a recently severed head, maybe toss in a few pedophiliac things as well...
UGH! Aside from being REALLY vile and evil this book would have never made it into any kind of hobby store, or even a bookstore. In all honesty would anyoone want such a thing in their bookshelf?
I don't!
Was it really that bad for you? I admit at first the information about rape and etc was kind of intimidating. But as I read the book for the second time, I noticed that WoTC's idea of evil was "cartoony" in a way. It focuses so much on saying that evil is so horrible and this book is so horrible and how great and evil evil was that it spent more time glorifying the product than really making evil look, well... evil.
The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying. The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh, because such a possibility is not remotly even possible in a logical mind. Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things, but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completly took the horror right out of it.
The messed up interpretation on evil combined with sloppy artwork(Demogorgon had HYENA heads  ) made it completly unmature. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 20:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
Was it really that bad for you? I admit at first the information about rape and etc was kind of intimidating. But as I read the book for the second time, I noticed that WoTC's idea of evil was "cartoony" in a way. It focuses so much on saying that evil is so horrible and this book is so horrible and how great and evil evil was that it spent more time glorifying the product than really making evil look, well... evil.
The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying. The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh, because such a possibility is not remotly even possible in a logical mind. Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things, but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completly took the horror right out of it.
The messed up interpretation on evil combined with sloppy artwork(Demogorgon had HYENA heads ) made it completly unmature.
Um...what I've been stating that I do not complain about the book and merely pointed out the possible alternatives, and I do not think that a picture of a male human using the still bleeding head of a female elf would make anyone of sound mind laugh.
Because if Wizards would have done the book in the vile way I described in my previous post no-one would have wanted to put it in their bookshelf...
Unless things like the abovementioned example make one laugh...in which case this person should remember to take his or her meds and go to a psychiatrist.. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 21:02:44
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With the risk of this thread becoming totally redundant as the “sex” thread is, here is my response to the last couple of posts:
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe there should have been more on ritualistic killings, rapings etc... um... well...no!
Not with a book that is still openly on display. If I look back on what Black Dog did, and there really were some disgusting things in Clanbook Baali, such a book, properly written would be a marketing disaster. Detailed descriptions on how demon worshippers cut up their victims, maybe a real diary of a madman, some realistic pics of a fiendish sex ritual with a blonde virgin, maybe even a necrophiliac necromancer bonking a recently severed head, maybe toss in a few pedophiliac things as well...
UGH! Aside from being REALLY vile and evil this book would have never made it into any kind of hobby store, or even a bookstore. In all honesty would anyone want such a thing in their bookshelf?
I don't!
I totally agree with that statement...what is the point of publishing something really sick and what does it say about you if you do buy it?
quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
quote:
Was it really that bad for you? I admit at first the information about rape and etc was kind of intimidating. But as I read the book for the second time, I noticed that WoTC's idea of evil was "cartoony" in a way. It focuses so much on saying that evil is so horrible and this book is so horrible and how great and evil evil was that it spent more time glorifying the product than really making evil look, well... evil.
The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying. The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh, because such a possibility is not remotely even possible in a logical mind. Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things, but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completely took the horror right out of it.
The messed up interpretation on evil combined with sloppy artwork(Demogorgon had HYENA heads ) made it completely immature.
This post made me sick to my stomach and I only felt better when I saw FridayThe13th’s age is 14...so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to the dumb innocence or the stupid ignorance of a kid . In my 31 years of life I have learned a few things, one is that anyone that down play the horrors one human can inflict on another (i.e. evil) is either really innocent or really ignorant and isn’t capable to comprehend how horrific your life can suddenly be.
I have a friend that lost two sons in childbirth and after he bought the Epic Handbook and saw that undead miscarried abomination he tossed to book out (I saved it from the dumpster). I can also imagine how a roleplayer that is a victim of rape would feel if the B0VD actually had game mechanics on how to rape someone (is that “evil” and “vile” enough for you yet to justify the warning?). I’m not saying that adding that abomination in the Epic Handbook was right or wrong, but I think it was bad taste to put it in there and if a sick mind wants to create that kind of crap in their game they can do it on their own.
The point is it’s easy to use the excuse of “desensitization” but if you have actually experienced something evil in your life (not the BS drama people inflict on themselves and call hardship) then you don’t joke about it, you often can’t even get over it.
And if you sit on your high pedestal and make some excuse about your downplaying evil, playing evil characters or having any kind of “the BoVD wasn’t evil enough for me” like FridayThe13th did...“it’s only a game” or “that is one person’s opinion” or “it doesn’t hurt anyone” or “it could never really happen”...I really hope whatever or whomever you believe in doesn’t pop your bubble you are living in and that you don’t have the evil you mock enter your life...it is not pleasant thing
“The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying (wow). The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh (now that’s sick), because such a possibility is not remotely even possible in a logical mind (now that made me laugh, it would be very logical for a necrophiliac mind to have sex with a corpse...I think you meant sane...and an evil mind isn’t sane, and there are alot more evil minds in the world than you can accept). Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things (thanks for admitting that), but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completely took the horror right out of it (unlike not making some warning, some kid like you buying the book and his/her parents causing another war with D&D?)
The irony is that is such a screwed up statement it’s more horrific than amusing
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Unless things like the abovementioned example make one laugh...in which case this person should remember to take his or her meds and go to a psychiatrist..
or get a good swift kick in the a$$
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 21:59:38
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Right now, here in Brasil, one entire city (not a little town, mind it! I´m talking about a great metropolis) is entirely prohibited of play rpg, of sell rpg, and of buy rpg!
This is because of a murder that happening there, in which rpg is involved (ok, ok, now all of us know very well about this: the killers are using the rpg as an excuse to gain some atenuants in the trials - requested by the lawyer, of course  ). This was a simple case of murderer and theft but, because of a real vile darkness lawyer, an evangelist sheriff, and some political interest, all the rpg players of an entire city are prohibited by law to play his hobby. Wisely, the brazilian enterprise that have the rights to translate WoTC books to our language have decided to not publish in our country the Book of Vile Darkness, the Book of Exalted Deeds and the Fiend Folio.
Now I said that yes, too many people can have some impressions very pessimist about this books (un-mature, soft, hilarious , etc.) But Mace and Kalin have touched some good points IMO, and I know two or three scores of one hundred rpg players that can say something more about this, too.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 02:33:26
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
With the risk of this thread becoming totally redundant as the “sex” thread is, here is my response to the last couple of posts:
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe there should have been more on ritualistic killings, rapings etc... um... well...no!
Not with a book that is still openly on display. If I look back on what Black Dog did, and there really were some disgusting things in Clanbook Baali, such a book, properly written would be a marketing disaster. Detailed descriptions on how demon worshippers cut up their victims, maybe a real diary of a madman, some realistic pics of a fiendish sex ritual with a blonde virgin, maybe even a necrophiliac necromancer bonking a recently severed head, maybe toss in a few pedophiliac things as well...
UGH! Aside from being REALLY vile and evil this book would have never made it into any kind of hobby store, or even a bookstore. In all honesty would anyone want such a thing in their bookshelf?
I don't!
I totally agree with that statement...what is the point of publishing something really sick and what does it say about you if you do buy it?
quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
quote:
Was it really that bad for you? I admit at first the information about rape and etc was kind of intimidating. But as I read the book for the second time, I noticed that WoTC's idea of evil was "cartoony" in a way. It focuses so much on saying that evil is so horrible and this book is so horrible and how great and evil evil was that it spent more time glorifying the product than really making evil look, well... evil.
The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying. The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh, because such a possibility is not remotely even possible in a logical mind. Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things, but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completely took the horror right out of it.
The messed up interpretation on evil combined with sloppy artwork(Demogorgon had HYENA heads ) made it completely immature.
This post made me sick to my stomach and I only felt better when I saw FridayThe13th’s age is 14...so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to the dumb innocence or the stupid ignorance of a kid . In my 31 years of life I have learned a few things, one is that anyone that down play the horrors one human can inflict on another (i.e. evil) is either really innocent or really ignorant and isn’t capable to comprehend how horrific your life can suddenly be.
I have a friend that lost two sons in childbirth and after he bought the Epic Handbook and saw that undead miscarried abomination he tossed to book out (I saved it from the dumpster). I can also imagine how a roleplayer that is a victim of rape would feel if the B0VD actually had game mechanics on how to rape someone (is that “evil” and “vile” enough for you yet to justify the warning?). I’m not saying that adding that abomination in the Epic Handbook was right or wrong, but I think it was bad taste to put it in there and if a sick mind wants to create that kind of crap in their game they can do it on their own.
The point is it’s easy to use the excuse of “desensitization” but if you have actually experienced something evil in your life (not the BS drama people inflict on themselves and call hardship) then you don’t joke about it, you often can’t even get over it.
And if you sit on your high pedestal and make some excuse about your downplaying evil, playing evil characters or having any kind of “the BoVD wasn’t evil enough for me” like FridayThe13th did...“it’s only a game” or “that is one person’s opinion” or “it doesn’t hurt anyone” or “it could never really happen”...I really hope whatever or whomever you believe in doesn’t pop your bubble you are living in and that you don’t have the evil you mock enter your life...it is not pleasant thing
“The descriptions on vile deeds was more amusing than horrifying (wow). The idea of someone having sex with a corpse actually made me laugh (now that’s sick), because such a possibility is not remotely even possible in a logical mind (now that made me laugh, it would be very logical for a necrophiliac mind to have sex with a corpse...I think you meant sane...and an evil mind isn’t sane, and there are alot more evil minds in the world than you can accept). Yes, some of the topics such as sex and murder are very real and very bad things (thanks for admitting that), but WoTC putting a fantasy label on this kind of stuff just completely took the horror right out of it (unlike not making some warning, some kid like you buying the book and his/her parents causing another war with D&D?)
The irony is that is such a screwed up statement it’s more horrific than amusing
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Unless things like the abovementioned example make one laugh...in which case this person should remember to take his or her meds and go to a psychiatrist..
or get a good swift kick in the a$$
I understand all of your concerns and yes, many of the topics in the BoVD are very real and quite serious. But you have got to understand that D&D is not a child's game. D&D is not all butterflies and rainbows, sick, twisted, evil things exist at every corner for a hero to fight. The BOVD just covers some of the more greusome aspects of the game and like anything else, this evil is supposed to get stomped on by the heroes. Like the book said, the darker the evil, the brighter the light of the hero. And the BoVD is just intended to make the game more of a challenge for your heroes, not to convert you to the occult.
As for little kids picking up this book, I don't think many people below 13 would even give a crap about D&D, which has always been regarded as an "old-school" and "mature" game.
I am truly sorry if I made a post that made you sick. I understand if you take it seriously and I admit that the book shoudn't be shown to anyone who can't handle it. But if you read the reviews for it on Amazon, you will see that most people don't take it very seriously.
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"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 02:52:48
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| I started playing AD&D when I was 10. Heh. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2006 : 14:44:33
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Truth to be told, the BoVD could be better. It's sorta like seeing a heavily edited version of a decent Clive Barker film on public broadcast TV, the creepiness and vileness of the material is watered down.
What I mentioned before, the really dark scenes would have done a lot to validate the book as being vile and evil, and for an adult audience. But then again, who would pick up such a book?
To me, having the twisted imagination that I do have, the book is sort of like the stepping stone to really get wicked in my campaign. I already creeped out my players with visual descriptions for their stint in Ravenloft where a skeleton tears off an elf's face, so, yes, you can bet safely on making things much more dreadful for my players in the future.
Serial killers worshipping a demon like Grazzt, tortures...the only thing I will not touch would be child-abuse. Considering that in another game I forced female characters to perform sexual favors for their prison-guards to gain a little more food, I have almost no qualms about anything in the game |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2006 : 02:07:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Truth to be told, the BoVD could be better. It's sorta like seeing a heavily edited version of a decent Clive Barker film on public broadcast TV, the creepiness and vileness of the material is watered down.
What I mentioned before, the really dark scenes would have done a lot to validate the book as being vile and evil, and for an adult audience. But then again, who would pick up such a book?
To me, having the twisted imagination that I do have, the book is sort of like the stepping stone to really get wicked in my campaign. I already creeped out my players with visual descriptions for their stint in Ravenloft where a skeleton tears off an elf's face, so, yes, you can bet safely on making things much more dreadful for my players in the future.
Serial killers worshipping a demon like Grazzt, tortures...the only thing I will not touch would be child-abuse. Considering that in another game I forced female characters to perform sexual favors for their prison-guards to gain a little more food, I have almost no qualms about anything in the game
Ya, compared to some stuff in Ravenloft, The BoVD content is actually pretty tame. The only thing about it is that many of the topics can connect a little too much with Real-life. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 02:17:23
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I have found the BoVD an interesting book to use in addition to various other source books, both for an ice campaign that I’m currently running (that has Levistus, Lord of the Fifth in) but also for preparing an evil campaign that the group want me to run (although its doubtful it will run for that long).
The reason we bought it was because we had the BoED and wanted its evil counterpart. However as to if it was necessary or not for it to be made, I suppose sometimes books are made that are wanted by a select few for whatever reason. I’m glad it was produced because its given the DM a choice to use it, like others have said no one forces people to buy the books and most wont if they don’t want it for specific reasons. |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2006 : 21:59:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Morbannaon
I have found the BoVD an interesting book to use in addition to various other source books, both for an ice campaign that I’m currently running (that has Levistus, Lord of the Fifth in) but also for preparing an evil campaign that the group want me to run (although its doubtful it will run for that long).
The reason we bought it was because we had the BoED and wanted its evil counterpart. However as to if it was necessary or not for it to be made, I suppose sometimes books are made that are wanted by a select few for whatever reason. I’m glad it was produced because its given the DM a choice to use it, like others have said no one forces people to buy the books and most wont if they don’t want it for specific reasons.
Hmm, tell me if I am wrong, but wasen't the BOVD written before the BOED?
Other than that , I totally agree with you. If you think it is revolting then just don't buy it. Otherwise it is a great game supplement that is very useful and interesting.
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"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2006 : 04:36:37
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I really liked the Book of Vile Darkness. My favorite are some of the magical items, the rules on scarifice and the option to have the presence of evil effect things. My all time favorite in the book is teh variant dark speech rule. I love it its just so appropriately evil.
Things like necrophilia and rape disturb me and I find that DMs who use elements in their campaigns and the cahracter who would shouldnt be taken seriously. Rape and necrophilia are token shock value acts that wouldnt be considered be intelligent evil forces trying to bring misfortune to the world.
anyway its funny that my significant other at the time bought it for me for christmas. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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The Book of Vile Darkness
