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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 17:01:18
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On Ed's thread The Hooded One wrote:
quote:
Ed had a "western" continent, but not Maztica.
Ed's Moonshae Isles were a cluster of many small Hebrides-style islands.
Ed had a glacier where Vaasa and Damara and the Bloodstone Pass are.
Ed had steppes, but not the Hordelands.
Ed had no Shou Lung (overt Oriental area).
Ed had mysterious southern lands, but not Zakhara.
I personally would like to see Wizards "retcon" Matzica, Zakhara and Shou Lung, and replace them with what Ed had originally intended for the realms. It really wouldn't affect too many of the previous novels involing these regions (all of which are out of print.) What do you guys think?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 17:09:24
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| Not I for Zakhara. I like Zakhara. The others, eh, I have no opinion. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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LucianBarasu
Fellaren-Krae Co-ordinator
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 17:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not I for Zakhara. I like Zakhara. The others, eh, I have no opinion.
'
I agree. Not Kazhara. I never touched Maztica or the Shou areas nor ever plan on it.
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Lucian "The Bringer" Barasu
Fellaren Krae Project Co-Ordinator
"Why do you cry?"
"He is Conan, Cimmerian. He won't cry... So I cry for him."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36890 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 17:48:00
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I personally would like to see Wizards "retcon" Matzica, Zakhara and Shou Lung, and replace them with what Ed had originally intended for the realms. It really wouldn't affect too many of the previous novels involing these regions (all of which are out of print.) What do you guys think?
Oh no, not at all. Whether I like something or not, whether or not it is in sourcebooks or novels that are out of print, one fact remains: it is published Realmslore. While I'm not the canon Nazi that some are, I do prefer to stick to canon (or at least creative interpretations of it) as much as possible. I do not want to see previously established canon written out of existence without an incredibly good reason. And, not to offend anyone, but just because something wasn't written by Ed doesn't mean it has no value or place in the Realms.
Besides, the unleashing of 3.x upon the Realms contained quite enough retcons for me, thank you. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 18:06:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I personally would like to see Wizards "retcon" Matzica, Zakhara and Shou Lung, and replace them with what Ed had originally intended for the realms. It really wouldn't affect too many of the previous novels involing these regions (all of which are out of print.) What do you guys think?
Oh no, not at all. Whether I like something or not, whether or not it is in sourcebooks or novels that are out of print, one fact remains: it is published Realmslore. While I'm not the canon Nazi that some are, I do prefer to stick to canon (or at least creative interpretations of it) as much as possible. I do not want to see previously established canon written out of existence without an incredibly good reason. And, not to offend anyone, but just because something wasn't written by Ed doesn't mean it has no value or place in the Realms.
Besides, the unleashing of 3.x upon the Realms contained quite enough retcons for me, thank you.
Hear Hear! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 19:32:52
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| Luckily, these outlying regions only marginally affect Realmsplay in the core setting. Artistically crass and irresponsible though most of those changes were (certainly including Zakhara, even if you like it in isolation), it's not worth 'officially' undoing them. But -- and this is another task for Ed among too many -- it would be great to see semi-detailed write-ups for these original fabled lands, preferably somewhere relatively prominent such as Dragon. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 20:38:17
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Put it this way: with each new iteration of D&D I get more reluctant to buy yet another source book about the same regions, often-times with even less information than the last edition. We can certainly count on 4th or even 5th editions for the Underdark. Perhaps that's why Wizards is trying to come out with new formats mixing sourcebook and module. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to excite most folks.
New, traditional sourcebooks about new continents, realms, closer to what Ed envisioned would certainly get me to open my wallet (threadbare as contents of said wallet usually are.) Such products would be a valuable addition to my Realms collection.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2006 : 22:35:12
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| I'm kind of ambivalent about this. I usually prefer to defer to Ed's ideas, and any fantasy setting he comes up with is likely to be more interesting to me than a veritable xerox of a real-world culture...but at the same time, the only "shouldn't be there" location that really bothers me is Maztica. Maztica is just so "Early American History 101" that it annoys the heck out of me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 26 Dec 2006 22:37:27 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 00:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Ed had a "western" continent, but not Maztica.
And don't forget Anchrome. Which I preferred...
quote:
Ed's Moonshae Isles were a cluster of many small Hebrides-style islands.
Ed discussed a little about his original LeGuin-styled islands here:- http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/jg-moonshaes.htm
quote:
Ed had mysterious southern lands, but not Zakhara.
That's exactly how the southern lands remain in my FR... mysterious and alien.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Dec 2006 00:02:26 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36890 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 01:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
New, traditional sourcebooks about new continents, realms, closer to what Ed envisioned would certainly get me to open my wallet (threadbare as contents of said wallet usually are.) Such products would be a valuable addition to my Realms collection.
While I would like to see some of what Ed originally intended, the fact remains that the Realms has since gone in a different direction. Rather than see existing Realmslore invalidated, I'd rather see his original stuff either spun off slightly (maybe by moving it over to one of the undescribed continents) or used in an entirely different setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 03:00:39
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I'm not real keen on how transparently derivative these other places are from real world history.
For example with Mulhorand isn't it canon that its progenitors actually portaled from earth's ancient Egypt? That's probably the most glaring example.
The real world sources are almost as transparent in Zakhara, Maztica, Chult, and Calimshan. Kara-Tur and Moonshaes too, to a great extent.
While the real world inspirations for those places are pretty neat in their own right, in some ways I would have preferred to see something truly original.
I will say though, that one of the appealing things about the Forgotten Realms is how much input there has been from a collection of writers. I think that makes the Forgotten Realms a more dynamic setting than if it had sprung exclusively from Ed's brain, and no other source. And I agree with Wooly that those non-Faerunian lands are established now, for better or worse. And I agree with some observations THO has made that although derivative each has been given a distinctly 'Realmsian' flavor. Plus DMs can add their own personal touches to give those lands unique quirks. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 27 Dec 2006 03:02:21 |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 03:06:56
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| I for one wish they would bring back Kara-Tur and Zakhara. Maztica was a dud to me. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 11:54:44
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As much as I like Zakhara I would like to hear Eds version of these lands. I don't believe a retcon of the three continents is practically possible and even less for the changed areas of Faerun. The idea would annoy at least as many people as it would appeal to.
That being said, I would chuck out Maztica and Kara-Tur for Eds version of these realms at the first possible moment. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 14:00:44
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| While I would find Ed's original ideas very interesting, I have to totally agree with Wooly. I have never ran a campaign in Zakhara, Shou Lung or Maztica I still like the idea that they are there. I am different than most people on this topic. I find these Realms-ified views of cultures in our world very interesting and fun. It allows me to add flavor to these areas by copying the cultures they were loosely patterned after. This does not mean that I would bring all elements of a culture into my Realms, just use the anthropolgy/culture as flavor. I also love the idea of playing new exotic characters from far-off lands such as a Jaguar knight from Maztica, a Kensai from Wa or a Sha'ir from the City of Delights... As Wooly said I do not want to see the Realms ret-conned (again)even though there are elements I do not like. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong! |
ShadowJack |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2006 : 16:00:01
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Essentially it's up to each DM what does and does not exist in THIER version of the Realms. It would be nice to hear from Ed on what he intended and uses as a DM in his game simply to offer options. That's all they would be, options.
Each DM is a master of thier own Realms. Maztica was never discovered and never will be (Who wants to sail that far anyway!)Kara-Tur was an ugly place and we're all lucky it fell off the edge of the world. Zakhara doesn't exist, instead it is a happy-fun-time land where rainbow bunnies frolic in the purple grass.
Options, that's all they are. I just happen to prefer Zakhara over the rainbow bunnies.
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About the "foreign lands" of FR
