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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 13 May 2007 : 02:25:28
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I'm on chapter 7 or so now, and I have to admit, the story hook driving the plot (how could a half-fiend ever be welcomed into heaven?) is pretty damned interesting. I'm loving the celestial parts of the book.
The parts with Vhok and his little posse, I'm not as keen about. Fight scenes are fight scenes, and I have to admit I'm finding them a bit dull even though they take place on the plane of fire. I find myself angry at those scenes for interrupting the far more interesting goings-on at the House of the Triad (I'm not that keen on the new cosmology, granted, but I'd love to visit that place, if it is as described in this book!). And again, we run into the problem of malignant protagonists--I'm not saying evil characters can't be interesting, but I'm not exactly itching to see these guys succeed, either. If Kaanyr Vhok gets torn apart by some rampant fire elemental, why should I be upset about it? I don't find him to be a sympathetic character. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 May 2007 06:27:32 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2007 : 04:49:07
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I love stories which get me rooting for the bad guys. Unfortunately, Vhok doesn't interest me that way.
On the plus side, this novel is laden with gorgeous imagery. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2007 : 00:17:59
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Whoa, count me as surprised upon hearing Aliisza's sentence. And to think, I thought she'd merely be sentenced to death! No wonder Aliisza is so terrified--who wouldn't be? Even I thought it was a little cruel to never let Aliisza see her child, no matter what, although I fully agree with Tauran's comments about justice: the tormenter is not as entitled to compassion as their innocent victims are.
I enjoyed the scenes taking place in Kaanyr Vhok's magical mansion, but the Plane of Fire sequences are still mostly just fight scenes, so they aren't really doing anything for me. And yes, it doesn't help that neither Vhok nor his companions are inspiring me to cheer them on. I can't even say I find Vhok to be especially interesting--simply being a cambion doesn't make one automatically interesting. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2007 : 00:22:22
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Actually, I want to see Vhok survive at least long enough to figure out what he is really trying to accomplish.
So far it has been a facinating book, but I must admit that for a while I did kind of fall into the "okay, fighting more elemental centaurs, got it," mode.
What I really like about the angels and Aliisza story is that while the forces of good are acting a bit harsh, they have a point, and ultimately they are giving Aliisza a chance, which is more than they have to do. I was worried for a bit that we might see the "Good is like Evil but the opposite," syndrome, where the angels would feel completely justified in killing Aliisza as long as they could save her child, so I'm glad to see her have a chance to redeem herself.
Now, if she accepts it . . .
I really liked the scene where she was faced with the consequences of one of the raids she led in seeing how the daughter of the guardsmen was treated. It should be interesting to see some of the other spectres of her past as they show up. I wonder if they are working their way backwards towards her earlier life, or if they will just jump around.
Its interesting to see Aliisza get upset about being "set up" by the angels. Yes, they told her only exactly what they had to in order to not violate her free will, but I think that's pretty much where the lawful aspect of their law and goodness come into play. I just wonder how upset she'll be when she finds out just how "set up" she was by Kaanyr in the first place?
Oh, and I have to say, I was actually a bit surprised that Myshik betrayed Kaanyr this early on. I thought that that subplot would carry on for a bit longer than it did.
Definately an interesting book so far. I agree about Kaanyr not being the most sympathetic, but Aliisza and Tauran are quite facinating so far. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2007 : 00:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
So far it has been a facinating book, but I must admit that for a while I did kind of fall into the "okay, fighting more elemental centaurs, got it," mode.
Yes, exactly! If it isn't obvious by now, I feel the same way.
quote:
What I really like about the angels and Aliisza story is that while the forces of good are acting a bit harsh, they have a point, and ultimately they are giving Aliisza a chance, which is more than they have to do. I was worried for a bit that we might see the "Good is like Evil but the opposite," syndrome, where the angels would feel completely justified in killing Aliisza as long as they could save her child, so I'm glad to see her have a chance to redeem herself.
Yes, that's true. I still find the way it shall be done rather horrifying, though--your mind is separated from your body, and even if you are successfully redeemed, you still can never have contact with your child (at least, that's how I interpreted it). But still, Aliisza probably deserves it, so I can't feel that sorry for her.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2007 : 00:52:03
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| You might argue (and I'm not saying this is right or not) that even if she is redeemed, between whatever quirks she might still have from her previous life and her unwillingness to give up the child, she might drift back into a selfish/self serving mode when raising the child. Or even that there is an element of the "if she isn't willing to let someone good raise the child without her having any contact with it, then she isn't worthy of raising it" catch 22. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2007 : 02:15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You might argue (and I'm not saying this is right or not) that even if she is redeemed, between whatever quirks she might still have from her previous life and her unwillingness to give up the child, she might drift back into a selfish/self serving mode when raising the child. Or even that there is an element of the "if she isn't willing to let someone good raise the child without her having any contact with it, then she isn't worthy of raising it" catch 22.
I can understand that argument, but I'm too much of an individualist to support it (and yes, I understand it's not *your* argument).  If you can't trust someone to stay good after they are redeemed, why bother helping them to become redeemed in the first place? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 14 May 2007 02:18:11 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 01:08:02
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oh, and I have to say, I was actually a bit surprised that Myshik betrayed Kaanyr this early on. I thought that that subplot would carry on for a bit longer than it did.
I was surprised by that myself, but I have to say it made Vhok's journey all the more interesting! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 21:29:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I really liked the scene where she was faced with the consequences of one of the raids she led in seeing how the daughter of the guardsmen was treated.
I loved that scene. Those are details that are not often mentioned in the "glorious struggle between good and evil". It's mostly the poor and not-so-wealthy inhabitants that suffer most. I'm quite curious if Aliisza will undergo some change of character and/or alignment in the course of this trilogy.
P.S.: There's something I can't quite understand: How can a child of two soulless half-demons have a soul? Or did I just misunderstand that bit about the child calling out to Tyr to save it's soul? |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
Edited by - Braveheart on 15 May 2007 21:32:10 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 23:02:48
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Are we sure the child is Kaanyr's? Could it be Helm Dwarf-friend's? I know this is something Aliisza herself says, but I was kind of wondering about that one . . . I know that fiends/celestials don't have souls, per se, since they are one with their spiritual form, but I didn't think that would apply for half-fiends or celestials . . . I hate to reduce this to game rules, but even though they are outsiders, they are "normally" native outsiders, meaning they can be raised normally.
One way or the other though, I'm inerested to see how this plays out. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 23:30:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Are we sure the child is Kaanyr's? Could it be Helm Dwarf-friend's?
Oh, just wait until you get to the last few chapters! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Gossamer Plain: Chapters 5 - 9
