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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 01:44:46
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Didn't see a thread for this, but I'll admit I didn't look very hard either.
Thumbed through this.
Was very disappointed, especially when I was looking at the stats of several of the NPCs. Many had an extra Hit Die added to them somehow.
Like Gnome Rogue 3 that had 4 Hit Dice.
Or Orc <Class> 2 that had 3 Hit Dice.
Some interesting feats and stuff, but other than that, looks to me that this might be a total waste of paper.
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News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 01:46:57
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To be fair though, this was the first 3rd edition product to actually use the word Spelljammer to my knowledge, in reference to a ship. I almost bought it for that reason alone, 
I'm interested in this though, Eytan worked on this book, so if he swings by here, I'd be interested to see what he contributed to the book, as I've greatly enjoyed much of his work. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 21 Sep 2007 01:48:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 02:12:12
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| The web enhancement made me kinda interested, but that was mainly because I enjoy reading detailed backstories and such for NPCs. So I guess I have to ask, what all is in the book? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 02:16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair though, this was the first 3rd edition product to actually use the word Spelljammer to my knowledge, in reference to a ship. I almost bought it for that reason alone,
Check out the entry for 623 DR in the Grand History.  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 02:19:14
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| Heh . . . you know, since it didn't have any "mechanical elements" I forgot that the Grand History counted as well . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 02:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The web enhancement made me kinda interested, but that was mainly because I enjoy reading detailed backstories and such for NPCs. So I guess I have to ask, what all is in the book?
There is a section at the front of the book with alternate class features, feats, and spells that are mainly useful for villains, i.e. abilities geared toward evil characters, many of which have to do with things like sacrificing your henchmen (sometimes literally, sometimes not) to gain bonuses, etc.
Then in the "meat" of the book, you get the stats and background for a villain and his main henchmen, a scheme that he has going on, and a detailed map of set of encounters for his base of operations. Essentially its a modular thing that you could drop in as a mini adventure or as the climax to an adventure that you make up yourself.
After the description of the main villain and his goals and personality, there is a section on how to slot him into Eberron and the Realms.
At the end of the whole shebang is a list of the locations of the villain's lairs and where they would fit into Eberron and FR. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 20:45:42
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| KnightErrant gave a pretty complete summary. I wrote the chapter on the body-switched elf-to-drow priestess. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 05:11:03
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| There are some interesting ideas in here (Eytan's section is very good) but overall it felt more like a series of web articles than something that should be published in hardback. |
Best
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 10:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair though, this was the first 3rd edition product to actually use the word Spelljammer to my knowledge, in reference to a ship. I almost bought it for that reason alone,
Weren't they mentioned in the entry for the 'Neogi' in "Lords of Madness?"
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 11:32:36
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| There were mentions of the Neogi ships and the illithid nautiloids, but neither reference, if I remember, actually called the ships "spelljammers." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 13:46:55
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Aye. They weren't specifically named. 'Tis like the "thinly veiled" reference to spelljamming in the write-up for Kethid in Serpent Kingdoms. And, of course, in the section for the "Sea of Night" in the FRCS.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 14:41:24
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| That was one thing that really pissed me off in Lords of Madness. The reference was something like "neogi have ships that sail the skies and beyond, but we're going to ignore those and focus on the sea-going ships." Why bother to include a spelljamming race if you strip away the spelljamming? And, having mentioned ships that do something far more fantastic than just plain old sailing, why not follow up on that? Even if they were kept limited to just atmospheric operations, it's still a lot more intriguing than just another race of slavers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 16:00:24
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Aye,
But Lords also mentions the events from one of the spelljammer box sets. The adventure where the sun is blocked.
I forgot which module/box set it is in but I could find it if I pulled out my Jammer material.
Thinking it was The Astromundi Cluster |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 16:59:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Aye,
But Lords also mentions the events from one of the spelljammer box sets. The adventure where the sun is blocked.
I forgot which module/box set it is in but I could find it if I pulled out my Jammer material.
Thinking it was The Astromundi Cluster
As I recall, in The Astromundi Cluster, blocking the sun was an illithid plot in progress -- it was not something that had actually happened. But I can't check... It's going to be a while before I get around to replacing the Spelljammer stuff, and The Astromundi Cluster was, in my opinion, a horrible release, and one that I feel contributed strongly to the setting's demise (Krynnspace didn't help, either *shudders*). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 17:28:40
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It was "The Sundeath" section, as I recall. Detailed in the Adventures in the Shattered Sphere tome from the boxed set, it presented one particular campaign-series arc concerning the illithids attempt to disrupt all solar activity in the Astromundi Cluster.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Sep 2007 17:29:26 |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 17:49:30
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| It's somewhat of a general precedent that we don't go into detail about non-supported settings. When doing the writeup for Dretchroyaster in DoF, I skirted around references to the remains of one of the ships. I think it's just an effort to not include information about something that can't be further supported by the current production slate. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 17:50:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Aye,
But Lords also mentions the events from one of the spelljammer box sets. The adventure where the sun is blocked.
I forgot which module/box set it is in but I could find it if I pulled out my Jammer material.
Thinking it was The Astromundi Cluster
As I recall, in The Astromundi Cluster, blocking the sun was an illithid plot in progress -- it was not something that had actually happened. But I can't check... It's going to be a while before I get around to replacing the Spelljammer stuff, and The Astromundi Cluster was, in my opinion, a horrible release, and one that I feel contributed strongly to the setting's demise (Krynnspace didn't help, either *shudders*).
Yes, but as I said Lords of Madness expanded on the info on that box set and completed the events. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 18:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
It's somewhat of a general precedent that we don't go into detail about non-supported settings. When doing the writeup for Dretchroyaster in DoF, I skirted around references to the remains of one of the ships. I think it's just an effort to not include information about something that can't be further supported by the current production slate.
Oh, I can understand a appreciate that, and I do appreciate even the thinly veiled references, but at the same time, there is a weird kind of, I don't know, vindication, at actually seeing the word Spelljammer. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 18:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It was "The Sundeath" section, as I recall. Detailed in the Adventures in the Shattered Sphere tome from the boxed set, it presented one particular campaign-series arc concerning the illithids attempt to disrupt all solar activity in the Astromundi Cluster.
Hm . . . I always thought that section of Lords of Madness was a reference to the information in Dragon 150 and the article The Sunset World concerning illithids and wanting to make other worlds more like their homeworld. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 19:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
It's somewhat of a general precedent that we don't go into detail about non-supported settings. When doing the writeup for Dretchroyaster in DoF, I skirted around references to the remains of one of the ships. I think it's just an effort to not include information about something that can't be further supported by the current production slate.
That was my thinking, as well. But with the referred to Lords of Madness thing, I would have preferred either no mention of neogi being anything other than groundlings, or to have not seen them at all. Referring to flying ships and then brushing it aside, all at once, just frustrates gamers, regardless of whether or not they are familiar with Spelljammer. Because, even if limited to the atmosphere, like Halruaan skyships, the idea of flying ships is highly compelling. It's prolly a lot more interesting than the neogi race is, at least without their deathspider and mindspider ships. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 17:26:49
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I didn't even by the book.. what's the point.. it's useless in 4 months anyway.
I found it insulting they put the D&D Online logo on the book too when there's no D&D Online content for it. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 20:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I didn't even by the book.. what's the point.. it's useless in 4 months anyway.
I found it insulting they put the D&D Online logo on the book too when there's no D&D Online content for it.
From what I understand, there will be online content for it. Also, I find the most useful aspect of the book to be the backgrounds, maps, and plot ideas, which, along with the online content, should make the the book still useful in the next edition (at least that's the goal). |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 18:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I didn't even by the book.. what's the point.. it's useless in 4 months anyway.
I found it insulting they put the D&D Online logo on the book too when there's no D&D Online content for it.
From what I understand, there will be online content for it. Also, I find the most useful aspect of the book to be the backgrounds, maps, and plot ideas, which, along with the online content, should make the the book still useful in the next edition (at least that's the goal).
these does seem like the kind of book thats edition-proof as its mostly fluff, plot hooks, and campaign ideas. Do we like it though? I'm debatin on whether I want it. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 22:13:49
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair though, this was the first 3rd edition product to actually use the word Spelljammer to my knowledge, in reference to a ship. I almost bought it for that reason alone,
I'm interested in this though, Eytan worked on this book, so if he swings by here, I'd be interested to see what he contributed to the book, as I've greatly enjoyed much of his work.
Look at Lords of Madness... spelljamming was definitely mentioned there |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 22:30:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair though, this was the first 3rd edition product to actually use the word Spelljammer to my knowledge, in reference to a ship. I almost bought it for that reason alone,
I'm interested in this though, Eytan worked on this book, so if he swings by here, I'd be interested to see what he contributed to the book, as I've greatly enjoyed much of his work.
Look at Lords of Madness... spelljamming was definitely mentioned there
As I recall, not directly. It said the neogi had ships that sailed the skies (or something like that), and then immediately brushed those off to focus on groundling neogi. Not only do I not like the concept of non-spelljamming neogi, I thought it was ridiculous to mention something far more wondrous than regular sailing and then brush it off to focus on sailing. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2007 : 16:49:09
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One thing that pleased me about the book when I read it:
In a heroic fantasy story set in an anthropormorphic universe that I wrote several years ago, I used an idea where the main villain's flunkies would rot away into slime if they tried betraying him. Imagine my surprise when I saw the exact same idea used in the new spells!
It struck me as a nice, creepy, gross thing for my villain to use (who was serving my own equivalent of a deepspawn), and I was pleased to see that someone else thought the same thing.
And I admit, I was also surprised to see how many of the villains used the Cancer Mage PrC. What a dear, lovely, utterly repulsive class it is.  |
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Exemplars of Evil
