| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 07:57:47
|
As Wooly Furball suggested, long hair is a symbol of vigour and virility, more hair means more testosterone which in turn means more manly and heroic. Besides, the chicks dig it. Samson was mighty until his hair got cut, without it he was quite feeble.
There are all sorts of half-obscured cultural references about long hair, or more specifically, some symbolic sacrifice being made when the hero dramatically shaves off all his majestically curly golden locks to confirm (or break) some sort of personal oath of a most solemn nature. Samurai were big on this, as are occassional Hollywood folk (male and female), they make a big deal out of getting a simple haircut, turn it into a huge million-dollar statement. Somehow being bald subtly states that the hero is Seriously Angry, since it kinda makes him look just like the villain.
Fabio would look a lot less heroic without big hair. The only substantial difference between Austin Powers and Doctor Evil was the hair. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Nov 2011 08:04:19 |
 |
|
|
Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 10:05:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Samson was mighty until his hair got cut, without it he was quite feeble.
Of course...how did I forget about him.
And makes all the sense in the world. Well, I feel silly now.
quote:
There are all sorts of half-obscured cultural references about long hair, or more specifically, some symbolic sacrifice being made when the hero dramatically shaves off all his majestically curly golden locks to confirm (or break) some sort of personal oath of a most solemn nature. Samurai were big on this, as are occassional Hollywood folk (male and female), they make a big deal out of getting a simple haircut, turn it into a huge million-dollar statement. Somehow being bald subtly states that the hero is Seriously Angry, since it kinda makes him look just like the villain.
Fabio would look a lot less heroic without big hair. The only substantial difference between Austin Powers and Doctor Evil was the hair.
I guess my subconscious still has a little bit of the 5 year old who thought it made them look girly rather than heroic. I'm not saying I think this now (because that's ridiculous), I'm just saying I'm pretty sure I thought that when I was a kid and it's some lingering reason I always realize I'm picturing someone wrong until the author starts to describe their hair. Or just the nature of the way my brain switches out hairstyles as I'm reading...it is sort of weirdly dramatic, and draws attention to itself a lot more than if I had screwed up even just hair color. I'm sure I've been equally programmed to think that about baldness as well and don't even realize it, as we will attribute my own haircut to the possible reasons my driver's license picture looks a little sinister (credit the scowl with the rest--but the lady at the DMV told me not to smile! Wise, then I certainly would have looked psychotic).
edited cos I got outsmarted by the [quote] tags  |
Edited by - Yoss on 23 Nov 2011 10:08:09 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 10:36:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Do dragons eat/kill their malformed/abnormal young?
I'd imagine the chromatic dragon-types often either kill or abandon malformed young. [Though, I've a sneaking suspicion that the Cult of the Dragon may, at times, secure such young {and likely abandoned} draconic forms for their own dracolich-making purposes.]
The metallic dragons, on the other hand, may simply seek to either heal or mercifully end the lives of such abnormals.
FOR1 Draconomicon notes that new intermediary dragon-types/strains can come from non-traditional unions between dragons -- so I'd assume the possibility for malformed young is, while not a common occurrence, more frequent than simply being categorised as "virtually rare."
Could some of them have used the abnormal young as common peons---forcing them to run errands that no dragonkin would ever accept; that only their lowly servants [humans, orcs, goblins, whatever] are expected to do? Or do they think the abnormal young would stain their fearsome reputation and are therefore not allowed to exist at all? [Maybe this is a good question for Ed?] |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 12:18:25
|
Glorious long hair imposes gloriously high hair maintenance, frequent and thorough washing and conditioning and brushing and all the rest, unless you're satisfied with a scraggly ponytail or an unruly rat's nest. Somehow, in my mind, having long beautiful hair invokes a certain sense of vanity about having long beautiful hair, and this is just not at all compatible with the mucky ugly harshness of adventuring lifestyle. Even the glowy paladin must have greasy-sweaty-sticky hair after wearing a coif all day. Only foppish nobles, bards, clergy of Sune, and those ever-annoying pretty elves might be immune to bad hair days. They have no doubt invented all sorts of vain little magics to maintain (or disguise) their appearance for maximum effect.
Real adventurers would probably prefer to wear their hair short or tied back, kept out of their face while in combat, kept underhelm when walking through dripping nastiness, easily cleaned by just scrubbing with sand at the local river. They'd probably prefer to cut their own hair with a sharp dagger instead of spending gold on the latest neatly trimmed fashions. Not to say they'd all look like raggy pirates and ruffians, just that gold and glory and heroic deeds (or simple survival) would be more imperative than constant worrying over precious hair. Exposure to elements, fireballs, chain lightning, ice storms, drunk dwarves, and other daily adventuring hazards is not especially conducive to pretty hair. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Nov 2011 12:27:40 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 15:28:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Do dragons eat/kill their malformed/abnormal young?
I'd imagine the chromatic dragon-types often either kill or abandon malformed young. [Though, I've a sneaking suspicion that the Cult of the Dragon may, at times, secure such young {and likely abandoned} draconic forms for their own dracolich-making purposes.]
The metallic dragons, on the other hand, may simply seek to either heal or mercifully end the lives of such abnormals.
FOR1 Draconomicon notes that new intermediary dragon-types/strains can come from non-traditional unions between dragons -- so I'd assume the possibility for malformed young is, while not a common occurrence, more frequent than simply being categorised as "virtually rare."
Could some of them have used the abnormal young as common peons---forcing them to run errands that no dragonkin would ever accept; that only their lowly servants [humans, orcs, goblins, whatever] are expected to do?
I wouldn't think this would be something either the chromatics or metallics would engage in often. Simply, I can't see the chromatics caring enough about malformed young to keep them around for any reason [of course, individual chromatic dragons may find a use for abnormal dragonspawn--whether as pawns or fodder, I suppose]. And the metallics, at least as I see it, wouldn't voluntarily allow such suffering for malformed young.
quote:
Or do they think the abnormal young would stain their fearsome reputation and are therefore not allowed to exist at all?
Definitely a mindset for the chromatics. Not so much for the metallics.
quote:
[Maybe this is a good question for Ed?]
Probably a good idea.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2011 : 05:44:49
|
In fantasy (and myth), the length of a person's hair is directly proportionate to their amount of 'goodness'. Note the vilest of villains are all bald guys. 
Blame it on the Bible - they were all a bunch of hippies (and Samson's story was about his long, beautiful hair).
Its also why I think the Borg picked Pickard - he was obviously 'going evil' anyway.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2011 : 21:55:23
|
For adventurers hair, thats where specific hair cleaning
spells come in at. I mean, the elves made all sorts of
spells for fashion purposes according to El in Myth Drannor,
so why couldn't hygiene also be a reason for spell creation. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:29:38
|
Another hair-related question:
Are there realms/groups of people who prohibit certain colors of hair? [Don't mention the Thayans---it's a well-known fact that one who grows his/her hair is either a slave or someone of a rather low status in the society.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 05:47:27
|
In Zakhara the erudite people wear turbans, which of course conceals their hair.
As you've hinted, Dennis, blonde hair in Thay is typically assumed to be a stigma of Rashemi heritage. Rengardt and Uthgardt barbarians, and to a lesser extent the Northmen of the Moonshaes, seem to be essentially identical (in terms of physical descriptors) except for their hair colouration. I'm sure that humans being what they are there's all sorts of ethnic descrimination for "foreigners" in almost every society, large cities (especially those with trading ports or along caravan routes) probably have more tolerance, yet likely non-natives are segregated or at least prohibited from holding privileged station. Hair colour itself would not be isolated, although it can be one of the more visible indicators. Elven subraces and dwarven clans are often differentiated by what amounts to being cosmetic variations in hair, eye, and skin colouration; and they are often no less discriminatory than humans. Evil-aligned races tend more towards destroying or ostracizing individuals born with "wrong" appearance, such can often expect to be treated similar to tieflings and outsiders. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 09:27:15
|
Can male bards make their voice sound like a female's? And vice-versa? Is that part of their vocal versatility? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 10:31:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Can male bards make their voice sound like a female's? And vice-versa? Is that part of their vocal versatility?
I really think this would be one for Ed.
However, while I'm intrigued by Ed's likely forthcoming answer, I'd like to pitch in with a possible explanation myself -- given my own proclivities with musical Realmslore.
Given the nature of the Earth based modal range [which ranks singing voices from the lowest male equivalent {bass} to the highest female voice type {soprano}], I would expect something of a similar system at play among the more qualified musical institutions of the Realms.
Among travelling minstrels and bards, however, perhaps a more "rustic" system would be applied.
Having said that, and taking into consideration the fact that countertenor is usually regarded [at least on Earth] as the highest male voice range -- and being equivalent to the deepest female voice range, as a contralto, I'd imagine some younger [say, perhaps, pre-adolescent] male bards can also reach the level of contralto.
While there are likely Realms-equivalents [of which we know so little about {*hint hint, Ed*}], I would assume the basic principles remain the same for voice ranges among male bards in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Nov 2011 10:34:01 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 14:56:29
|
| I'd say it would be possible with the use of magic... Though if I was going to change my voice to sound like a woman's, I think I'd go all the way and temporarily turn into a woman. I should think that a woman's voice coming out of an apparently male throat would prove distracting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 15:20:32
|
I was thinking more on the line of being able to sing with a "dual" voice. You can sing a duet all by yourself. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 23:07:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I was thinking more on the line of being able to sing with a "dual" voice. You can sing a duet all by yourself.
I'd assume that would have to be aided by some manner of magic, but by the same token I see no reason why that same magic wouldn't allow it to be possible. It also strikes me that that would be a trick more likely to be used by a court singer as a) it's a special gimmick that would (presumably) attract interest and b) I imagine it would be better appreciated in a refined and courtly setting than a rough-and-tumble tavern. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 00:33:52
|
| Male performers with decidedly female voices exist in our world. A rare few performers (male or female, or in some cases rather confusing intermediate/blended genders) are capable of controlling their vocalizations to an astonishingly perfect degree, with such reproducible accuracy that even detailed digital analysis cannot discern any differences of note. Our technologies allow audio to be recorded, edited, altered in any imaginable fashion; I expect that the most skilled performers of the Realms might have devised magical tools to do much the same. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 01:50:45
|
Marcelino Pomoy, for example. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 02:50:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Male performers with decidedly female voices exist in our world. A rare few performers (male or female, or in some cases rather confusing intermediate/blended genders) are capable of controlling their vocalizations to an astonishingly perfect degree, with such reproducible accuracy that even detailed digital analysis cannot discern any differences of note. Our technologies allow audio to be recorded, edited, altered in any imaginable fashion; I expect that the most skilled performers of the Realms might have devised magical tools to do much the same.
Until a female friend rather indignantly proved otherwise by showing me a poster, I thought some members of the New Kids on the Block were female!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 02:57:21
|
Wow. That's one of the strangest things I've ever heard.
And by the way, Ed answered my query about bards being able to sound their opposite gender. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 28 Nov 2011 03:01:56 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 03:26:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wow. That's one of the strangest things I've ever heard.
And by the way, Ed answered my query about bards being able to sound their opposite gender.
Well, the first song I heard, the guys doing the "please don't go girl" in the background sounded, to my untrained teenaged ear, like girls. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 23:37:35
|
It's okay Wooly- that happened a lot back in the days when they were big. As a gal who was once a big fan, I understand how one might think that. I still secretly believe that Justin Bieber is a girl in disguise.....
And IIRC, there IS a bardic ability called "undersong" that allows one to sing two melodies at once, and presumably one could do this in two different voices, if they had the vocal control for it. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 00:15:53
|
quote:
Alystra Illianniis ... I still secretly believe that Justin Bieber is a girl in disguise.....
It's a pretty weak disguise. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 03:18:55
|
He does sound and look like a girl, hair or no hair. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 05:36:03
|
this from my 14 year old son earlier....
Do fish fart? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 05:41:14
|
No. See here. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 08:11:29
|
| Of course, that's just in the real world. I'm sure Ed would be happy to detail the Farting Bass of the Moonsea for us. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 16:36:46
|
Do you mean the infamous fat-ass bass? (cousins to the Knucklehead trout)
They don't call it "The Moonsea" for nuthin'.
New Question: What are Elves afraid of? In other words, historically humans were afraid of 'the wee folk of the woods' and what-not, so what sort of folklore-type critters would Elves tell stories about? Orcs would probably also be afraid of similar things - Fey/woodland beings - and Dwarves probably fear the usual subterranean suspects (Ropers, Aboleths, Illithids, Umber Hulks, etc). I know Drow are frightened (Drow! Frightened!!!  ) by 'Fey things' (they were caused to rout during a confrontation in one of Elaine's novels when they heard 'Fairy music').
I should really ask her about that.
Anyhow, I can't picture what sort of 'scary stories' Elves would tell their children - they live in the damn woods! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2011 16:37:30 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 17:53:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
New Question: What are Elves afraid of?
Santa. And Keebler. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 19:10:26
|
(/speculation on)
Elves, being tied to the natural world, I would postulate that they would fear and abhor anything they believe to be unnatural or aberrant. Obviously, with the words I chose, I'm suggesting that certain forms of aberrations may provide fuel for the elvish version of 'Grimm's Fairy Stories' that Markustay asked about. What better to scare little wayward elves than a giant floating, tentacle-covered eyeball that can see everywhere around it at once, has the personality of nails on a chalk board, and shoots rays of disintigration so that their 'happily ever after' turns into 'disappeared and were never seen nor heard from again.' /shudder
(/speculation off)
I also really liked the suggestion of certain fey species providing an almost tangible example of an 'elven boogie man' who may be out to get them. Have you given any thought as to the fey species in particular? I'd be interested in hearing them as I'm working on a new campaign and this idea of racial 'boogy men' may be particularly useful.
Thanks!
Wolfhound |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 20:09:14
|
Nuclavee  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2011 21:57:21 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Stupid question time...
