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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 23:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
New Question: What are Elves afraid of?
To die young. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 19:35:50
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I don't think so - I think an Elf fears dying without a purpose. I think that might be why Craulnober is the way he is; he feels empty inside. Its not the age that matters - its what you have done in the time you were allotted.
I have another question, but its not so stupid, so I will seek the more appropriate thread.
In the meantime, here's a stupid question: If orcs get abused by Ogres, and goblins get abused by everyone (except, maybe, kobolds), why do any of these races even associate with each other? In other words, if you were a goblin, wouldn't you hide from larger goblinoids? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 21:45:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't think so - I think an Elf fears dying without a purpose. I think that might be why Craulnober is the way he is; he feels empty inside.
Actually, I think Elaith's issue is that he lives by what he thinks is the expected standard for him. He fills a role, rather than living for himself.
When the moonblade went dormant, it meant -- to him -- that something was wrong with him and he couldn't fulfill that role. So he looked for a new role, and fell into that of a ruthless crimelord. It was only with the reawakening of the moonblade and the encounter with the mhaorkiira hadryad that he began to realize he could define his own role, instead of filling the expectations of others. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Dec 2011 21:48:26 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2011 : 18:12:43
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RIGHT, but that ties right into what I said - the destiny he thought was his - wielding the Moonblade - was taken from him, and now he feels like he has no purpose. He has basically given-up, rather then find a new path (that would better suit an Elven noble).
Its his own stubborness that won't allow him to find a new path, because he was set on the other his whole life - he never considered any other way. He doesn't know what his purpose is, and thats a horrible thing for an Elf; they all feel they have a 'place in the natural order'.
IMHO, of course.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Dec 2011 18:13:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2011 : 19:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
RIGHT, but that ties right into what I said - the destiny he thought was his - wielding the Moonblade - was taken from him, and now he feels like he has no purpose. He has basically given-up, rather then find a new path (that would better suit an Elven noble).
Its his own stubborness that won't allow him to find a new path, because he was set on the other his whole life - he never considered any other way. He doesn't know what his purpose is, and thats a horrible thing for an Elf; they all feel they have a 'place in the natural order'.
IMHO, of course.
What I disagree with his that he doesn't have a current path... We've seen current (1375ish) examples where he did something simply because it was expected of him. One example was when he absently allowed someone to live, and then the fool babbled that he never expected the Serpent to do that -- at which point Elaith remembered his role and cruelly slew the guy (pretty sure that was in The Dream Spheres).
So Elaith lost one path, and then found another. The events of Elfsong and The Dream Spheres are where Elaith begins to realize he can do more than just fill a role. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2011 : 19:36:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
RIGHT, but that ties right into what I said - the destiny he thought was his - wielding the Moonblade - was taken from him, and now he feels like he has no purpose. He has basically given-up, rather then find a new path (that would better suit an Elven noble).
Its his own stubborness that won't allow him to find a new path, because he was set on the other his whole life - he never considered any other way. He doesn't know what his purpose is, and thats a horrible thing for an Elf; they all feel they have a 'place in the natural order'.
IMHO, of course.
What I disagree with his that he doesn't have a current path... We've seen current (1375ish) examples where he did something simply because it was expected of him. One example was when he absently allowed someone to live, and then the fool babbled that he never expected the Serpent to do that -- at which point Elaith remembered his role and cruelly slew the guy (pretty sure that was in The Dream Spheres).
So Elaith lost one path, and then found another. The events of Elfsong and The Dream Spheres are where Elaith begins to realize he can do more than just fill a role.
I think he now sees his role as Steward to his Moonblade and his "role" all along was to prepare his daughter to weild it. At least thats what I got out of the whole deal. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2011 : 22:04:04
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Right....
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
I am not disagreeing with anyone, and I concur he now has a path. The problem was after the Moonblade rejected him (and the time after, which was actually just a 'brief interlude' for an Elf). He had no purpose - he felt he wasn't 'Elfy enough' for the blade, so he left Evermeet and acted like a human (or what he thought humans behaved like - money-grubbing, hurtful brutes). He did not consider that his path - he considered that a life he was sentenced to for some fault in his own being.
NOW, he has found a path - a path that is much more in-line with how an Elven Noble should behave. How long did that period last? For a human, it would have been like a week of depression, but Elves take longer to do anything - even get over emotional trauma (and like humans, some never recover from such trauma, which is one of the many reasons they avoid human attachments).
I am just pointing-out that not knowing what his 'true purpose' was the lowest point in his life. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Dec 2011 22:05:40 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2011 : 08:57:09
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What's the most common gesture for warding off bad luck/evil spirits? Sort of the Realms version of the RW's sign of the cross. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36982 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2011 : 13:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the most common gesture for warding off bad luck/evil spirits? Sort of the Realms version of the RW's sign of the cross.
A protection from evil spell. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2011 : 14:16:54
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Knocking on wood, perhaps? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2011 : 10:58:11
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| More like bashing with mace on wood, knowing the clerics. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2011 : 15:05:24
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And since we're on the subject of gestures... How about for making promises? I learned that Koreans do the pinky promise. Which is kinda opposite to what Filipino kids do: they cross their pinkies when they "vow" to be enemies. Do Realmsians have something like that? [I'm making up something for my story; but I think it's inappropriate in this thread.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 03:07:07
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I picture Halflings using that under-the-chin finger-wag thingy that the Little Rascals used to do (I'm definitely dating myself with that reference).
I can see Elves 'flip each other off' by bending the tips of their ears down (implying the other is a 'lesser being').
And now for my completely random thought of the day, which I will sneak into this thread by way of a question: I am watching The Santa Clause right now, and I just realized Tim Allen becomes Santa by killing the old one. Talk about identity theft! 
So, do Elves follow the Klingon philosophy, or are they Necromungers? (You keep what you kill)
Or better yet, did Santa follow the 4e maxim of "killed them and take their stuff"? (there's one we haven't thrown around in awhile). 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 06:52:54
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Elves are very ethnocentric---most likely the most in Toril. They wouldn't steal identities belonging to other races, only their own. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 09:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the most common gesture for warding off bad luck/evil spirits? Sort of the Realms version of the RW's sign of the cross.
The 1e sourcebook Lords of Darkness (REF5) contains a "Mundane Guide to Wards" on page 85.
It details both "Gestures" and the so called effects of "Knocking on Wood", I wish other, more recent, sourcebooks were as detailed and thoughtful.
It also discusses and benefits of using mirrors, and even salt, against certain types of undead. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 00:42:28
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Thayvian later became Thayan. How about for Torilian? Did it evolve from an “old” term? Is there another word for it used at present time? Torilese? Torilan? Torilo? Torilon? Toriler? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Thayvian later became Thayan.
That's not quite accurate.
As I recall Ed, through Code of the Harpers, tells us that both 'Thayan' and 'Thayvian' are correct terms, and both are in usage.
Dreams of the Red Wizards uses 'Thayvian.' As does Steven Schend in both Sea of Fallen Stars and Wyrmskull Throne.
Eric Boyd used 'Thayvian' in his "Westgate Timeline" for Cloak & Dagger.
'Thayan' was used in "The Horde" article for DRAGON #349. Though 'Thayvian' was also referenced in the web enhancement for that same article. So, 'Thayvian' indeed still has placement in the modern Realms terminology.
Dreams of the Red Wizards uses 'Thayvian' to describe both people and objects from Thay. As does Sea of Fallen Stars. The web enhancement for DRAGON #349's "The Horde" article uses 'Thayvian' to describe people from Thay -- so that's a 3e reference.
As it is... I'm still inclined to follow the path Ed set in Code of the Harpers. Specifically:- "These various Thayvian (or 'Thayan', either usage is correct) agents form a small but well-financed, ever-present spying presence throughout the Realms."
That particular section would seem to indicate that either usage can, and is, used to describe people from Thay.
And given some of Tom Costa's and Ed's previous comments about the spread of languages around the Realms, I would assume there are a number of individual settlements/hamlets/town/cities across the Realms who do not enjoy the same "linguistical diversity" that many other prominent locations around the Realms experience on a daily basis. Simply, the languages at play in these kinds of culturally isolated settlements -- places that rarely encounter travellers from elsewhere in the Realms, or even those locations that rely solely on minstrels/bards to learn about the extended world around them -- are shaped by their limited exposure to the Common tongue used in the Realms around them. Their communal "linguistic database" so-to-speak, is built mostly around what they and pick up learn from others/outsiders.
The term 'Thayvian' or 'Thayan' may actually be the ONLY way these non-Thayvians/Thayans describe both people and objects from Thay. Just as 'Thayvian' and 'Thayan' themselves may both be the terms used, and accepted, by many more culturally diverse non-Thayvians/Thayans.
In other words, some less-diversified outsider cultures may only know how to relate to people of Thay as 'Thayvian' or 'Thayan' -- not both. While other locales, perhaps rather more metropolitan and racially/culturally diversified, like the City of Splendors, are equally aware that both 'Thayan' and 'Thayvian' are interchangable terms commonly used to describe specific elements about the land of the Red Wizards.
-- The Sage, who spends entirely too much time thinking about all-things-Thayvian/Thayan. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:24:32
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I see. I based my assumption on the novels alone. I encountered Thayvian only in the old novels. All 4E books (and some if not all 3E as well) use Thayan. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I see. I based my assumption on the novels alone. I encountered Thayvian only in the old novels. All 4E books (and some if not all 3E as well) use Thayan.
I'd say that's more a case of the newer 4e designers who may not be entirely aware of prior lore on the nature of Thayvian/Thayan, simply using Thayan for ease of reference.
I seem to recall a Thayvian reference in the "Haunted Lands" trilogy. I was ecstatic at the time when I read that.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 02:03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I see. I based my assumption on the novels alone. I encountered Thayvian only in the old novels. All 4E books (and some if not all 3E as well) use Thayan.
I'd say that's more a case of the newer 4e designers who may not be entirely aware of prior lore on the nature of Thayvian/Thayan, simply using Thayan for ease of reference.
I seem to recall a Thayvian reference in the "Haunted Lands" trilogy. I was ecstatic at the time when I read that.
Really? Perhaps your eyes played tricks on you. I reread the whole series fairly recently, and I can't recall any mention of Thayvian. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 02:42:49
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Most likely. I read some of the stories in Realms of the Dead, but not all. So I can't say for sure. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 03:07:09
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"Thayvian" and "Thayan" are both correct and both in use; "Thayvian" is the older term and (aside from old lore in and out of the Realms) now seems to convey more formal usage/meaning while "Thayan" is more generic and clearly favoured in recent canon. Technically, the terms denote different subtleties when speaking of people or things or contexts of Thay, as discussed in this scroll. A very good non-canon idea from Wooly and Sage, here, suggests redefining these terms to differentiate between "Thayvian" Traditional-Exiled-Thay and "Thayan" Modern-Szass-Thay. Finally, we have this:quote:
The Hooded One, Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010) [page 11]
"Thayvian" has the same meaning as "Thayan," but is an older way of identifying something or someone of Thay. It's still heard today, especially among scholars and pedants, but "Thayan" has in recent centuries become far more popular.
"Thayvian" seems to always be used when speaking of the bombards, government, and laws of Thay. City of Raven's Bluff, written by Ed, briefly describes savvy merchants advertising their Thayan goods as Thayvian to add a sense of authenticity, history, and importance to the final price. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Dec 2011 05:58:26 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 03:28:24
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Thanks for that quote, Ayrik. That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post, though I seemed to have phrased it incorrectly. By "became," I didn't mean Thayvian became obsolete, replaced by Thayan. What I meant was it evolved and now has a modern term; but it's still used, though not as widely as Thayan. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 18:55:59
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| Question: In a fantasy setting, is there such a thing as fantasy? Are there novels or stage plays with mythical creatures that people can enjoy while knowing they are just fairy tales with non-existant creatures? In a world with magic, gods, dragons and fiends, I guess nothing is truly impossible. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4492 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 19:25:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Question: In a fantasy setting, is there such a thing as fantasy? Are there novels or stage plays with mythical creatures that people can enjoy while knowing they are just fairy tales with non-existant creatures? In a world with magic, gods, dragons and fiends, I guess nothing is truly impossible.
While I think fantasy stories are more realistic for those living in that setting, to the common man, I'm sure they'll be adventures and stories they'll never experience. Keep in mind that I'd say most of the people in the Realms are lowly commoners that will rarely venture more than 100 miles from their homes and could easily go their entire life without ever seeing an orc, goblin, or dragon. So campfire tales about these sorts of things are probably more fantastic than we could imagine and probably scarier too since it's plausable, however unlikely.
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 20:28:31
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| Do you think they have created monsters for the sole purpose of story-telling? Something more scary than illithids, dragons or devils? |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2011 : 22:14:57
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Monsters like, say, giant space hamsters?
Many of the creatures listed in the various monster books are never actually seen in gaming sessions, beyond the terrifying campfire legends half-jokingly whispered by idle NPCs. They are simply too fantastic to be even slightly believable, even within an unbelievably fantastic world. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Dec 2011 22:21:37 |
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Stupid question time...
