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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 01:49:20
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Does Bahamut exist in the 3rd. edition Forgotten Realms? If not, who replaced him as the deity for metallic dragons?(Faiths and Pantheons isn't helping.)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:14:25
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I'm afraid I can't find him offhand. F&P only deals with common humanoid pantheons, and only of the Faerunian area. I don't have the material on hand for something like dragons. I can't find it on the limited search I tried, either. Candlekeep itself has a list of deities, but it's 1) not exhaustive, 2) unofficial, and 3) doesn't list Bahamut in the dragon powers section.
Perhaps Sage can crack open one of those many tomes of his and aid you.  If not, you should never be afraid to fudge things. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:32:35
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Bookwyrm said -
quote:
Perhaps Sage can crack open one of those many tomes of his and aid you.
Indeed I shall.
Looking through both the 2e Draconomicon, and Monster Mythology tomes, the answer is nebulous at best. The MM states Bahamut as a lesser deity, who serves the power of Io forever arguing the cause of good against evil. Although his standing as the deity for metallic dragons is well known (although the MM has very little to say on this), it makes no mention of him having a specific standing in the Realms.
The Draconomicon also makes little mention of Bahamut, therefore it is safe to conclude that the information presented in the MM is correct. He has little to no official standing in the Realms to begin with.
As for 3e FR, well..., considering the status of Tiamat, and the necessity for Bahamut to forever watch for, and oppose her evil intent, I suppose a case could be made for establishing him as an active presence in the Realms.
In 2e all the Dragons of FR, no matter alignment or colour, worshipped Asgorath, the draconic deity of Creation. He is not mentioned in any 3e resource concerning FR pantheons, although as Bookwyrm said, you shouldn't be 'afraid to fudge things'. Simply carry over Asgorath to 3e, to fill the gap left by Bahamut.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:34:23
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| Thanks for the help. Going to start on that deity conversion now... |
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Zauviera
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:34:29
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Arivia:
Bahamut can be found in the 3e book "Deities and Demigods" - p 58
He is listed in the D&D pantheon, as I believe he originated as a Grayhawk (Oerth) deity, not Faerunian.
Zau' |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 07:38:28
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| I know that. It's the fact that he isn't listed anywhere in Faiths and Pantheons and the line "Any deity not listed on the Monster Deities table or in Chapter 5 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting does not exist on Toril" that got me thinking about this. And the fact that he isn't mentioned in either. |
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Zauviera
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 08:23:13
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Zau' Dusts off his cloak...
Your reply got me to thinking - was Bahamut mentioned in the 2e products? So I went to one the dustier parts of the library, and dug out the 2e books 'Faiths and Avatars', 'Powers and Pantheons', and 'Demihuman Deities'. A quick scan did not reveal "Bahamut" in these tomes.
So.. was Bahamut mentioned in other FR 2e products? |
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 15:21:18
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I don't think so. In fact outside of Oerth, and the Greyhawk setting, the only other place that I have read about Bahamut (in 2e), was in some tomes from the early days of the Dragonlance setting.
EDIT - And Planescape too, of course...nearly forgot about that one  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Sep 2003 15:22:08 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 18:07:13
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| The dragon gods were always a kludge. FOR1 Draconomic introduced them, Cult of the Dragon massaged them a little more into continuity, but reading "Wyrms of the North" it's clear that dragons aren't (usually...) religious. They're too proud; I think it works better for them to fear and/or revere Tiamat or Bahamut as peers of great magnitude. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2003 : 19:03:01
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| Which is the reason for the non-divine presentation that everything(including the Manual of the Planes for 3rd) except Deities and Demigods favors. I think giving Bahamut and Tiamat divine ranks is a mistake in most campaigns. In the Forgotten Realms, Tiamat should have divine ranks from her worshipers in Unther. |
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Dragon Cultist
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2004 : 16:43:57
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Dragon Magazine did a 3E conversion of both Tiamat and Bahamut relatively recently.
Lady Learned Scribe Arivia, I realize that doesn't add an iota to the Realms question; yet the raw stats are there.
If thou wants, I could send one of my bony claw minions to rifle through my shelves of Dragon Magazine to see which one had the article.
After all, we of the Wearers of the Purple...aim to please.
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"And naught will be left save shattered thrones with no rulers.
But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire..." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2004 : 05:01:14
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| I'd be interested, to see if there's any difference from the stats in the MotP and Deities and Demigods. Looking back on this topic, after the release of the 3e Draconomicon, I believe I'll use some of the deities in there, especially the ones I can cross-reference to the Realms. |
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Dragon Cultist
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2004 : 16:51:55
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Here, I located the Dragon in question:
Bahamut and Tiamat both are given 3E stats (not yet 3.5, as at the time this issue came out, it was during the countdown to the switchover to 3rd Edition) in the following article:
“The King & Queen of Dragons”, by Skip Williams. In Dragon # 272 (June 2000 issue), starting on page 28.
There's a notice-sidebar in the article that says:
"...The new incarnations of Tiamat and Bahamut are not slated to appear anywhere else in the foreseeable future, so this sneak preview of 3rd Edition monsters is also the official return of the most fearsome dragons in the D&D world…"
The article doesn't resolve the question of whether Bahamut currently exists in the Realms or not. In the background info there is only some general information, and game settings (like Dragonlance, Greyhawk and the Realms) are not mentioned. So it's a "general D&D article." Seems the decision is, in time-honored fashion, up to individual DMs. Barring the appearance in future of a Realms product which says otherwise, of course. |
"And naught will be left save shattered thrones with no rulers.
But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire..." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2004 : 11:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dragon Cultist
...The article doesn't resolve the question of whether Bahamut currently exists in the Realms or not. In the background info there is only some general information, and game settings (like Dragonlance, Greyhawk and the Realms) are not mentioned. So it's a "general D&D article." ...
To my knowledge, that particular question has never been answered...unless of course you count Tales of the Lance as more reliable in terms of DL facts than the 3e DLCS. In which case, a conclusion was reached...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 15:19:23
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Great Reader Arivia,
As you noticed the Draconomicon addressed Bahamut. However, the Dragons of Faerun, Complete Divine, Race of the Dragon, Manual of the Planes 3rd edition,Dragon Magazine #323, #378 (ironic), The Grand History of the Realms, Players Guide to Faerun, and Deities and Demigods 3rd edition covered him as well.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Does Bahamut exist in the 3rd. edition Forgotten Realms? If not, who replaced him as the deity for metallic dragons?(Faiths and Pantheons isn't helping.)
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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A simple question
