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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 05:04:10
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While watching To Aru Majutsu no Index, an idea struck me... Why does the School of Abjuration not have a Sub-school: Nullification. Unlike the common abjurers, who specialize in all sorts of defensive magic, the wizards in this sub-school, which for the sake of this argument, we shall call nullifiers, specialize only in nullifying all kinds of magic, creating dead magic zones to as far as five meters in diameter. What's more, their spells affect not only arcane magic, but clerical magic and psionic powers as well. Isn't that great? What do you think?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 20 Apr 2011 06:17:58
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 05:30:37
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| Are ye drunk? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 05:33:27
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I stopped drinking since the age of NINE.
Don't get me wrong, Dalor, but it appears to me there has been a consensus here in CK to refrain from addressing fellow scribes with "YE." It's annoying as hell.
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Actually, I'm planning to use this sub-school in my books. The mother school isn't called Abjuration, of course, but it functions more or less the same. And there are definitely no gods in my worlds. They would operate as pests should I have the slightest inclination to use them. So the wizards of this sub-school will nullify only two forms of energy: ancient magic and psionics. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 20 Apr 2011 05:43:43 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 15:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I stopped drinking since the age of NINE.
Don't get me wrong, Dalor, but it appears to me there has been a consensus here in CK to refrain from addressing fellow scribes with "YE." It's annoying as hell.
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Actually, I'm planning to use this sub-school in my books. The mother school isn't called Abjuration, of course, but it functions more or less the same. And there are definitely no gods in my worlds. They would operate as pests should I have the slightest inclination to use them. So the wizards of this sub-school will nullify only two forms of energy: ancient magic and psionics.
I aim to be as annoying as possible at times...its the gremlin blood in my veins I suppose. I like "ye" and will continue to use it for addressing folk from time to time.
As for the school of Nullification...do you really need such a school?
Wouldn't things like Anti-Magic Shell, Dispel Magic, Mordenkainen's Disjunction and such be ample to do what you are after? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 19:55:23
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| I could see an anti-schools that disrupts magic, but psionics no, that has to be some mind-shattering discipline. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 00:06:40
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Dalor,
Those spells only dispel arcane magic, right? Hence, they're not enough. What the nullifiers seek to attain is to counter arcane and clerical magic, and psionics.
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Quale,
I know it's kinda difficult to dispel psionics if the one doing it is not a psionicist. But it's possible. The nullifiers could hire enchanters to control one or two psionicists and use them for experimentation, to better understand the nature of their power and devise means on how to nullify it. I'm reminded of that scene in Agents of Artifice by Ari Marmell where the manipulative dragon did an experiment [if we can call it that] on the mind mage Tezzeret.
Vhostym had both arcane and psionics abilities. Why can't someone possess the ability to nullify both? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 21 Apr 2011 00:10:07 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 05:20:53
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There's already one or two metamagic specialist "schools", such as incantrices. They master spells which can affect the parameters of spells and spellcasting. Although dispel magic is a "universal" spell, metamages could be able to cast it with greater precision and potency.
Abjurer's already have anti-magic shell, globe of invulnerability, spell turning, and spell immunity. Transmuters (diametrically opposed school) have Mordenkainen's disjunction and spellstrike. The Seven Sisters (in particular the Symbul) and those naughty Rashemi witches also have innumerable special spell-manipulating spells at their disposal.
In a way, abjurers can already function as nullifiers ... the distinction seems academic (much like transmuters and transmogrifiers are largely redundant and indistinguishable). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 05:24:54
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Abjurers can't nullify psionic power. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 12:23:13
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| That was Vhostym's uniqueness, I prefer psionics is not magic rule cause otherwise why not call everything magic then. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 12:55:17
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Someone should not let Vhostym "monopolize" that uniqueness.
Psionics is actually called magic. Well, partly. It's colloquially known as mind magic. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2011 : 15:02:50
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that's what Mystra wants, for ignorant people to start calling it mind magic, to monopolize, why do you think she keeps Auppenser comatose  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 03:35:46
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Auppenser needed the rest, anyway. If he's really bright, he wouldn't have pooled his servants in just ONE place (Jhaamdath), and instead spread them all over Toril. True, together, the psionicists of Jhaamdath were formidable. But that made them easy targets as well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 03:50:59
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I thought an Anti-Magic shell stopped all things short of mundane?
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Dalor,
Those spells only dispel arcane magic, right? Hence, they're not enough. What the nullifiers seek to attain is to counter arcane and clerical magic, and psionics.
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Quale,
I know it's kinda difficult to dispel psionics if the one doing it is not a psionicist. But it's possible. The nullifiers could hire enchanters to control one or two psionicists and use them for experimentation, to better understand the nature of their power and devise means on how to nullify it. I'm reminded of that scene in Agents of Artifice by Ari Marmell where the manipulative dragon did an experiment [if we can call it that] on the mind mage Tezzeret.
Vhostym had both arcane and psionics abilities. Why can't someone possess the ability to nullify both?
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 04:01:40
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Dalor,
I could be incorrect. I don't play; so I don't know the rules---well, most of them. However, given that psionics is technically not magic, if that spell also nullifies psionic power, it should have been called Anti-energy shell or something more "inclusive." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 04:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Dalor,
I could be incorrect. I don't play; so I don't know the rules---well, most of them. However, given that psionics is technically not magic, if that spell also nullifies psionic power, it should have been called Anti-energy shell or something more "inclusive."
It does indeed block psionics...and Mordenkainen's Disjunction will totally destroy any ongoing psionic effects.
Remember, as magic is simply energy and psionics is too, the two are very closely related...one simply having a different source for that energy than another. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 08:53:47
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That's interesting, Dalor.
I guess having this highly "specialized" sub-school is still critical to abjurers. I'm sure that spell you noted has limits. Nullifiers can seek to overcome those limits. When one specializes in something, he'd do everything to understand the intricacies of that something. And when he is joined by others of like minds, they would most likely fully comprehend that something and develop it to one that can function in its full potential. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 09:13:19
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| DMZ is a very strange effect which appeared during ToT. Perhaps a crazy mage could discover a way to create such effect, but how about adding severe faults of this sub-school? Like destroying portions of weave during spellcasting of such spells? This can make a school highly dangerous enough for wizards to not bother with it. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 12:19:47
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A fair point. Since Mystra has returned (or whatever is left of her, that is), she can simply put certain restrictions on what and how much magic the nullifiers could tap, enough to further their endeavors but would not, in any way, "harm" the Weave. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 22:23:26
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| Mystran priest classes (in 2E at least) have the ability to repair dead/wild magic zones. As well as cast their spells completely unimpeded within such zones. This seems to suggest Mystra's whim is the only rule which really matters. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 01:46:59
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As wizards create new spells, she would have to modify her rules every once in a while. But you're partly right, her whim is the rule. That's her prerogative for being the goddess of magic. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 04:43:08
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Although I cannot recall the specifics, I'm certain that one of the houses in Menzoberranzan attempted a major coup during the Time of Troubles when Lolth couldn't answer the prayers of her priestesses in that city. I also remember major retribution once divine magic returned. Thus, it would seem to me that psionics is not tied to the Weave, as all other forms of magic failed. And for the record, I prefer the pantheon approach. It's nice to have a name to utter when praising or cursing and much more exciting than "oh, God" as a generic thing. Ed does this very well in his novelizations.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:03:30
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| The 2E restructuring of psionics game rules was explained through ToT, specifically through Mystra's interregnum. Mystra apparently governs psionic abilities along with magic. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:13:08
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| Makes sense since all psyonics got toasted for some time after ToT ended. Bloody stupid death. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The 2E restructuring of psionics game rules was explained through ToT, specifically through Mystra's interregnum. Mystra apparently governs psionic abilities along with magic.
Hardly a surprise. If she could influence Auppenser, the god of psionics, so could she do the same to his power. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 06:21:33
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| Mind if I ask why you want to make nullification sub-school of abjuration? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 26 Apr 2011 06:22:57 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 07:08:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Mind if I ask why you want to make nullification sub-school of abjuration?
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Actually, I'm planning to use this sub-school in my books. The mother school isn't called Abjuration, of course, but it functions more or less the same. And there are definitely no gods in my worlds. They would operate as pests should I have the slightest inclination to use them. So the wizards of this sub-school will nullify only two forms of energy: ancient magic and psionics.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I guess having this highly "specialized" sub-school is still critical to abjurers. I'm sure that spell you noted has limits. Nullifiers can seek to overcome those limits. When one specializes in something, he'd do everything to understand the intricacies of that something. And when he is joined by others of like minds, they would most likely fully comprehend that something and develop it to one that can function in its full potential.
Also, I plan to write a short story or two focusing on a nullifier for my next anthology. I think a sub-school would be good point to start for his background history. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 12:42:27
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Usually, when a spell is dispelled, the Weave is returned to its natural state, neutering any adjustments made by a spells effects. So on Toril nullifiers need to be experts in the study of the weave itself. Subsequently Nullifiers would highly likely be strong believers in Mystra.
If a Nullifier wants to stop psionics, they can rely on simple dispell magics, as psionics create magical/supernatural effects that manipulate the weave almost in the same way that spells do. A psion only taps into his personal reserve of weave energy, generated by his body and mind, to fuel his outward directed psionics. If a Nullifier wants to sever a psion from their source they need to understand how a "Mindmage" generates and radiates their personal weave with mental discipline. This makes for a hairy proposition as the psions own mind yields a psion a homeground advantage.
If you want to delve deeper into the lore of psionics I advise getting a copy of Darksuns 2nd edition the Will and the Way book. It describes the personal mindscapes of psions and the many defences that most psions (and non-psions) have available in great detail. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 05:12:04
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What spell could counter a nullifying spell? Another nullifying spell? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 08:35:51
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| A spell engine. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 05:13:18
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Really, that's the name? Sounds sci-fi-ish. And to nullify that, one needs another (and perhaps more powerful) spell engine? This question sounds like one best posted in "Stupid question time..." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nullification: Sub-school of Abjuration
